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For doctors planning to come to Canada

D

deva

Guest
There are many doctors planning to come to Canada. According to CIC Canada website, 1000 General practitioners and 1000 Specialist Physicians will come to Canada this year with sweet dreams. In Canada they will need to obtain license if they want to practice medicine. They will need to do retraining which is known as residency. Even if some one is already a cardiologist and have been practicing cardiology in his country he will need to complete at least seven years of residency training in medicine and cardiology to be allowed to practice cardiology in Canada. After a doctor comes to Canada all his previous experience and training will be ignored and there will be no difference between a GP, Cardiologist or an obstetrician. They will all have to start like new graduates from medical schools. They will all need residency training for at least 2-5 years for licensing and to become eligible for residency training they will have to qualify in several examinations. According to different residency training websites most of the doctors will need to pass in MCCEE, MCCQE1, and NAC-OSCE examination. The Canadian medical graduates will need to qualify only in MCCQE1 examination to become eligible for residency positions. Many of the foreign trained doctors will need to qualify in other examinations in addition to the three examinations I just mentioned which include: MCCQE2, CE1, CE2 etc. Last year approximately1800 foreign trained doctors applied for residency positions. They could apply for the residency positions only after they have got pass standing in the examinations. Among them only around 350 doctors got their desired residency positions. Every year around 2000 Canadian graduates come out of their medical schools. They have got exactly same number of residency positions for them which is around 2000. But there are only around 350 residency positions available for the doctors who did not graduate from Canadian medical schools. So every year a vast number of graduates who did not graduate from Canadian medical schools and who are mainly immigrants are left out of the main system because there are not enough residency positions for them. There is also evidence of systematic injustice. http://www.nfb.ca/film/doctors_without_residency
Now there are more than 7000 foreign trained doctors residing only in Ontario. If one considers the whole Canada the total number will exceed 15000. Every year, according to CIC website, more than 2000 doctors (GPs-1000 and Specialists-1000) are expected to come to Canada as federal immigrants. There are also doctors who are coming to Canada as provincial nominees and there are also other programs. If we consider the existing system and its capacity only a small number of these doctors (not more than 5-7%) will be able to enter into the system after crossing all the barriers. The question is what will happen to the rest. What will happen to those who are taking all the trouble come to this country believing that they will be able to serve the people of Canada and help to fill up the shortage of doctors?
Still they are invited to come to Canada because every one knows that there is a doctor shortage. Though they have extensive experience in their field of specialty and they were allowed to come to Canada on the basis of their experience and academic qualifications, they will not be able to use their experience to serve and Canada and the Canadians.
There is also an economic problem associated with all these irregularities. I talked to many foreign trained doctors and they told me that they were eager to compete with Canadian graduates in different examinations and they had no objections regarding this. So, foreign trained doctors have appeared in these examinations and most of them have already qualified in the two examinations which include MCCQE1, and MCCQE2. Canadian medical graduates also have to appear in these two examinations for residency and licensing. But the foreign trained doctors are not sure why they need to appear in other examinations like MCCEE and NAC-OSCE and CE1, CE2 etc. which the graduates from the medical schools in Canada do not need to appear. There is also a financial tag attached with this examination process. In the last two years there was a huge raise in the examination fee. Two years ago each one of these examinations used to cost a doctor around 700-1000 Canadian dollars. But now the average fee of each examination is around 1500-2000 Canadian dollars. There are also other costs associated with these examinations. These include administration fees, registration fees etc. So, an immigrant doctor needs to spend at least 4500 Canadian dollars for these three examinations. There are also other expenditures. They have to qualify each examination one at a time and then have to wait for six-twelve months for the next examination. So if an immigrant doctor has to pass MCCEE, MCCQE1, NAC OSCE, which are the three examinations must needed for residency, he will have to spend a minimum of two years for this. Now there is a problem: who will take care of his economic needs during this period? What happens when an immigrant doctor qualifies in all these examinations and still fails to get a residency position only because of limited number of positions? These are professional examinations and every body knows that one can not be a full time student and a full time worker at the same time. So as the number of foreign trained immigrant doctors is rising the problem is exceeding its limit. But there is no one to look into this terrible situation.
“Back in January 2008 the Frontier Centre for Public Policy (FCPP) and Europe’s Health Consumer Powerhouse (HCP) released the first annual Euro Canada Health Consumer Index http://www.fcpp.org/publication.php/2025, comparing the user-friendliness of Canada’s healthcare system with those of 29 European countries.
The results were startling, especially for Canadians who have been led to believe that our health care system is the best in the world. Canada ranked 23rd out of 30, only outperforming a handful of eastern European states with developing economies, such as Slovakia, Romania, Lithuania, Poland, Bulgaria and Latvia.”
One of the main reasons for this is lack of doctors and other skilled medical professionals. The department of Immigration is busy defining the nature of skill shortage. Every year there are initiatives taken by the Government, Immigration ministry and other relevant authorities to tackle the problem of skill shortage. Honourable Immigration Minister himself most of the year remains busy talking to different groups trying to solve this problem and trying to find its solutions. There are many Canadians who believe that nobody is giving any time to think or plan how to utilize the skilled people after they come to Canada.
After coming to Canada I have attended many workshops and programs organized by different immigrant serving organizations which were funded by the Government of Canada and the Ministry of Immigration. Though the programs were organized to help the doctors and other skilled health professionals to allow them to enter the system, I was astonished to observe that one of the main motives behind these activities were to let the doctors know that they will never be able to enter into the system in Canada and so it will be better for them if they leave their dream behind and try to join the health care system as personal support worker or nursing assistants. I have heard some of the doctors complaining when they told the organizers that they had enough experience and skills and they wanted to apply these for the service of people of Canada and that was the reason they came to Canada, they were totally discouraged and every body made fun of them.
There are many people in Canada who think that immigration has become a very profitable business for many people. New immigrants are weak and vulnerable and they want to believe everything they are told. They also have great respect for everything that is Canadian and is in Canada. There are self serving groups who are busy trying to utilize this opportunity to exploit them. People are frustrated to see how these hard working skilled people are systematically betrayed and how there skills are gradually destroyed and wasted due to complete apathy and inertia and total lack of planning from the establishment. How can one forget that the skilled immigrants like doctors have come to Canada with a dream only because they have promised to utilize their skills when they were invited to contribute to the growth of Canada and serve the people of Canada.
 
S

shibuya

Guest
Hi Deva,
Recently a doctor had put up a question as to what r the survival jobs available and I had put down a list of what is available on the plate for a newcomer. But my views were found offending to many doctors and others.
Hence my earnest request is to just refrain frm advicing people the aftershocks and let each and everyone peacefully,happily come to Canada and taste the fruit and if he can sustain , surely success will come by if NOT there is still the option of going back home .
This is a personal choice and without eating the mango u cannot judge whether its sweet or sour.
So it should just be WELCOME TO CANADA .
Positive & Negative that all life is about. Link: http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/forum_2.asp
 

Ismael5

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Feb 23, 2011
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o deva re deva
 

docpak

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great post indeed don't know y they are nt letting doctors to work thu giving them immigration on priority basis....
doctors also have to think wisely and raise their voice to cop with it....getting Canadian immigration is one goal and work as a doctor is another,should see both separately.explore all the means and ways to save one's professional skill and its very much possible.if a doctor can pass american board exams and UK specialization degrees while residing in Pakistan or India or any where then y nt while living in Canada.if one can opt the other ways like psotgraduation MS, MPHIL, research then inshaALLAH doors will b open for such options too.
as the situation is getting attention now in Canada,inshaALLAH things will get better for doctors in Canada.
saying all this jst to encourage myself and all the fellow doctors my friends,not to lose hope and look for opportunities whichever readily available.
best of luck to all
docpak
 

docpak

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shibuya said:
Hi Deva,
Recently a doctor had put up a question as to what r the survival jobs available and I had put down a list of what is available on the plate for a newcomer. But my views were found offending to many doctors and others.
Hence my earnest request is to just refrain frm advicing people the aftershocks and let each and everyone peacefully,happily come to Canada and taste the fruit and if he can sustain , surely success will come by if NOT there is still the option of going back home .
This is a personal choice and without eating the mango u cannot judge whether its sweet or sour.
So it should just be WELCOME TO CANADA .
Positive & Negative that all life is about. Link: http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/forum_2.asp
didn't u notice he is not actually advising anything however letting doctors to know the situation in quite a reasonable way........
hope u understand
docpak
 
S

shibuya

Guest
Doc pak ,
I have been reading Dr. Deva frm Bangladesh posts for quite sometime and hence addressed my comments to him. It has nothing got to do with anyone else. Read my post well and read all his 19 posts and u will understand the matter clearly.
 

gopikolli

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Dear Dr. Deva,
its an excellent post highlighting the present system for foreign trained doctors.
would you have info about the state of affairs in dentistry for foreign trained dentists, is it slightly better or same as medical field.
I have heard after clearing exams, 2 years of DDS is required but the no. of seats for immigrant dentists is very less in colleges in canada.
any inputs would be highly appreciated.

-gopi
 
D

deva

Guest
Dear friends, thanks very much for your comments. I am not a pessimist and I never was. I truly believe Canada is a great country and there are great people in every corner of Canada. I do not want to leave Canada. I believe Canada needs a lot of skilled people. I admire those hard working skilled people who left their home and convenience and accepted Canada as their new home. Together we can make our new country the best place for living in the earth. I am struggling to adjust with the system like many of you. As a doctor I am more concerned about the professional difficulties faced by the doctors. I am sorry that I do not have much knowledge about the dental graduates in Canada. I believe the situation will be similar to us. Thanks everybody for your valuable comments and appreciation. I would appreciate any suggestions regarding the opportunity in the education sectors like universities. I am specially interested in enrolment in master's in epidemiology or similar programs.
 

coolbreeze

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Apr 9, 2011
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Suggestion; Take USMLE steps in place of MCC exams. It is much easier to get residency positions in US if you score reasonable well.
Use their J-1 or H-1b visas to complete residency. Residencies completed in US are accepted for canada license.

For example;

https://www.cpsbc.ca/files/u6/2-10.pdf

If you want a FULL family practice registration in BC ; the requirements can be met by

1. Having a recognized medical degree from your country.
2. Being a canadian PR/Citizen
3. Being a MCC licenciate ( through MCC exams) or having passed US licensing exams (USMLE 3 steps)
4. Having a CFPC ( Canada Family practice certification);
CFPC requirements can be met by completeing family practice residency in US
and taking the CFPC exam in canada.
 

dkbzns

Newbie
Mar 29, 2012
9
0
coolbreeze said:
Suggestion; Take USMLE steps in place of MCC exams. It is much easier to get residency positions in US if you score reasonable well.
Use their J-1 or H-1b visas to complete residency. Residencies completed in US are accepted for canada license.


If you want a FULL family practice registration in BC ; the requirements can be met by

1. Having a recognized medical degree from your country.
2. Being a canadian PR/Citizen
3. Being a MCC licenciate ( through MCC exams) or having passed US licensing exams (USMLE 3 steps)
4. Having a CFPC ( Canada Family practice certification);
CFPC requirements can be met by completeing family practice residency in US
and taking the CFPC exam in canada.
Very good advice coolbreeze, if this holds up, this would be the easiest way to practice medicine in canada
 

cocosyr

Star Member
Mar 30, 2012
101
14
deva said:
Dear friends, thanks very much for your comments. I am not a pessimist and I never was. I truly believe Canada is a great country and there are great people in every corner of Canada. I do not want to leave Canada. I believe Canada needs a lot of skilled people. I admire those hard working skilled people who left their home and convenience and accepted Canada as their new home. Together we can make our new country the best place for living in the earth. I am struggling to adjust with the system like many of you. As a doctor I am more concerned about the professional difficulties faced by the doctors. I am sorry that I do not have much knowledge about the dental graduates in Canada. I believe the situation will be similar to us. Thanks everybody for your valuable comments and appreciation. I would appreciate any suggestions regarding the opportunity in the education sectors like universities. I am specially interested in enrolment in master's in epidemiology or similar programs.
I think you should go back to Bangladeshi alone, leaving your wife and kids behind here. She'll get her citizenship and I am sure your kids like Canada better than Bangladeshi. That's the sacrifice you have to make. There are many many people doing exactly that, although I hear some tragic stories where wives cheat while their husbands are away...
 
D

deva

Guest
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1154844--trading-stethoscope-for-broom?bn=1

“Federal budget 2012: Skilled immigrants urge investments into talents already in Canada”
Nicholas Keung, Immigration Reporter;
Published On Sat Mar 31 2012

“Every evening after dinner, Naseem Ahmed Pasha would don his dress pants and dress shirt, and say goodbye to his three boys, telling them he was leaving for work in hospital.

By the time Pasha, a family doctor from India, got to his worksite, he would change into his uniform, the uniform of a security guard, for his 9 p.m. to 7 a.m. shift at a Toronto condominium – for $8.50 an hour.

Before Pasha arrived Canada in 2006 under the skilled immigrant program, he was confident he would soon be able to use his skills and contribute to this country in a meaningful way.

After all, he has a medical degree from India’s University of Mysore and practiced medicines first in India and then in Saudi Arabia for 15 years. In his two years as a security guard here, he studied and passed all the qualifying exams and had his credentials certified.
Yet today, instead of treating patients and curing diseases, Pasha is sweeping floors and lifting heavy merchandise at a Toronto home improvement hardware store on survival wages.

“It’s a very tough pill to swallow,” said the 44-year-old, choking back tears. “I wasn’t prepared for this kind of jobs. But coming here, you have to survive and put bread on the table.

“I didn’t tell my kids because I come from a culture where being a doctor is an honourable and noble profession. Now my status has dropped, doing blue-collar jobs. It would have a bad impact on my kids.”
There are many highly educated and skilled immigrants like Pasha who have their skills wasted and look for Ottawa’s investment in the talents already here.

Of all the professions, physicians are probably the most highly regarded but also among the internationally-trained immigrants most likely to fail to get back into their field of training. (A Statistics Canada study found that 60 per cent of new immigrants failed to work in the same field.)”
 

cocosyr

Star Member
Mar 30, 2012
101
14
deva said:
(A Statistics Canada study found that 60 per cent of new immigrants failed to work in the same field.)”
60 percent? that's baloney. It should be around 95% or less!
 

cocosyr

Star Member
Mar 30, 2012
101
14
deva said:
By the time Pasha, a family doctor from India, got to his worksite, he would change into his uniform, the uniform of a security guard, for his 9 p.m. to 7 a.m. shift at a Toronto condominium – for $8.50 an hour.
Isn't that more than what medical doctors are paid per hour in Bangladeshi and some parts of India? A dream job for the majority of Bangladeshis, innit?