Expiring PR, just arrived to Canada - with my baby.

[drnafisa]

Dear Leon

My PR card expires on 24Nov 2014 and in September we received our baby daughter's TRV approved so she can visit her grandparents. However immigration have approved her TRV only up till the date that my PR card expires (24Nov 2014) despite requesting in the application that we need the baby to have at least 4 months of stay during her visit.

Here is the challenge for us: I have only completed approximately 600 days out of 730 days for my PR residency obligation and I landed just yesterday to Canada. I have now approximately 45 days until my PR card expires. I know I need to complete 130 days before I apply for renewal, however. in the meantime I will still need to apply for my daughter's TRV extension 1 month before it expires which is in another two weeks (apply by 23 Oct 2014).

On what basis can immigration give my baby an extension of stay when they have initially provided a TRV only up till 24Nov? (the issuance of up till 24 Nov had indirectly indicated that her stay is approved up till the expiry of my PR card date.)

May be in this case I should not wait to complete 130 days and apply with human and compassionate grounds and receive a receipt of PR renewal application. And then apply for my daughter's TRV extension along with that receipt of PR application indicating that I am awaiting for my PR renewal and therefore would need to extend her stay.

Here is our background: We are Indian nationals residing mostly in GCC. I got married in Dec 2011. Initially my husband and I decided to stay for two years in GCC with his parents, then relocate to Canada - during the two years I would apply for his PR as well as I would complete my residency obligation days (approx 4 months/130 days). However, it did not turn out that way. I was pregnant and my husband and eventually I too felt not to travel so long distance and be apart during this exciting period. After our baby was born in 2013, we decided I would travel with her in 2014 when she is one year old. So as planned we applied in June 2014, also timing it so that I would receive my daughter's TRV for six months up till Nov and I would also be able to complete my residency days during that period. Unfortunately, the Abu Dhabi immigration took approximately 3 months to make a decision on my daughters TRV application (when their website indicates 5 days for online application). They never disclosed what the delay was about despite indicating our greviences. However, we are anticipating that the delay happened either as their own fault internally, or my fault. This is because along with my daughter's TRV application was required to submit a PRTD application from me. In the application I made a small calculation mistake of total days stayed in Canada (I put in 10 days more by mistake. I put 610 days instead of 600) - so may be that's why the delay for the TRV.

However, we struggled and now we are here in Canada. Now I want to do the following: a) retain my PR card, b) ensure my daughter can stay with me during that procedure, c) apply PR for my family (husband and daughter), d) then finally relocate. During this procedure I would really like to be free to travel in and out of Canada as my daughter and I cannot stay too long away from my husband - or at least my husband will not allow for that either. Please help!

 

[scylla]

Definitely do not apply for PR renewal before you have completed 730 days in Canada in the last 5 years. Do not apply early under H&C - you have no reasons for claiming H&C based on the information you have provided.

Apply to extend your daughter's visit to Canada on the basis that you are working to submit her PR application.

 

[HHH2000]

I think, Once you apply for extension your baby can stay with you as long as your request approved or turned down, it could be more than 6 months. This happened sometime back with my Neighbour father, he applied for extension and on near expiry date when he called the agent, the agent replied that your father need not to leave Canada until he is denied for extension, later extension granted to his father.

 

[Msafiri]

I second and echo both of scylla's comments on this.

 

[drnafisa]

Thanks @scylla for your reply. You are right I must just wait till my PR obligation days are fulfilled. However, I will also need to start procedures to sponsor for my husband and for my daughter, the issue is that if I did so, the first phase of sponsorship is assessing the sponsor's eligibility. The fact that I have not renewed my PR till I meet my obligation (approx 4 months left) - this will be in question for my eligibility as a sponsor, right? If so, then can I still ask them to extend declaring that "I am waiting for my obligatory days to be completed, so therefore please extend my daughter's visa" ... ? In this case, it is again not a solid reason for them to extend my daughter's visa.

Also, I spoke with the immigration officer on the phone today asking about my daughter's visa. They said that the expiry date mentioned on the visa is not the expiry of the period of stay itself, but rather it is the expiry of the date your daughter is allowed till to travel into the country, usually you have six months on the TRV. When I asked the officer where is this written on the website, they said it is understood that the TRV visa is valid for 6 months. This is even more confusing now!!

Please help..

 

[ZingyDNA]

Also, I spoke with the immigration officer on the phone today asking about my daughter's visa. They said that the expiry date mentioned on the visa is not the expiry of the period of stay itself, but rather it is the expiry of the date your daughter is allowed till to travel into the country, usually you have six months on the TRV. When I asked the officer where is this written on the website, they said it is understood that the TRV visa is valid for 6 months. This is even more confusing now!!

Please help..

The officer is right. The expiry of visa is NOT equal to expiry of stay. You can enter Canada on the last day of a visitor visa, and they can still grant you another 6 months of stay. Did you look at the entry stamp on your daughter's passport? The length of stay should be specified there.

 

[zardoz]

1) Why was the OP required to apply for a PRTD if holding an unexpired PR card?
2) If the PRTD was applied for, why was it granted if the residency obligation requirements were not met?

 

[Msafiri]

1) Why was the OP required to apply for a PRTD if holding an unexpired PR card?
2) If the PRTD was applied for, why was it granted if the residency obligation requirements were not met?

Well spotted...something is amiss!!

 

[drnafisa]

@ ZingyDNA I checked out the passport, it does not mention any date for length of stay - that is why the immigration officer on the phone said it is "understood" that the TRV lasts for six months. But that's still too vague for me. I think I will have to visit the immigration office in person to clarify this. And I did do a bit of research on CIC website it's true, visa expiry is not necesarily the length of stay.

But i still cannot be sure, is there any way to check how long a person can stay in the country? I really hope i have 6 months for my daughter, it will really be good and will help me to revive our status!


@ zardoz if by OP you are referring to me - We were unsure too why i was required to apply for PRTD. When we applied for my daughter's TRV, Abu Dhabi immigration got back to me five days later asking for me to fill out a PRTD application in order for the application to be further processed. I know of people that have travelled alone after many years from GCC and they did not apply for a PRTD, they just entered Canada with their valid PR card. However, i noticed in Abu Dhabi immigration website it mentions that any PR holders returning to Canada must apply for PRTD. So it could be their own procedures.

For question 2. We had actually applied for my daughter's visa five months before the expiry of my PR card in June 2014 (my PR expires in Nov 2014). Therefore anticipating the TRV to come within one week as mentioned on the website, therefore leaving for Canada on time allowing me to complete my four months. We also had booked and locked in the dates with air tickets. But unfortunately, for some reason as i explained in the background above that Abu Dhabi immigration took three months to get back to us with my daughter's visa approved!- that was by the end of August. Because of this delay i lost my time to complete the obligatory days as i originally planned. On the PRTD application I did mention about my plan of competing my obligatory days between June 2014 and November 2014, indicating i would complete it on time. During the period of delay as well i was sending out emails to Abu Dhabi immigration about my grevience with the unnecesarry delay (they never responded to me or explained the reason). I never recieved any 'outcome' of my PRTD application either, despite i also paid for the application as required. At the end I only recieved via the online portal notification of the Visa approval for my daughter - that was enough for me!

When we entered at the port, the officer asked my plans and i replied that i will be applying to extend my daughter's stay and for sponsoring for my family.

 

[drnafisa]

@ZyngyDNA I found a link on CIC website titled Extend your stay in Canada. It mentions that if there is no date or stamp, the visa is valid for six month from date of entry!

I think that solves my problems, thank you for your help and time!

This leads to my next step question: Can I now start applying for sponsoring my husband and daughter while I am completing my days? Or am I required to wait and complete my four months, renew the PR card, then apply to sponsor them? (Keeping in mind that my PR card expires in Nov 2014 and by then I will have three months left to complete my residency obligation)

 

[zardoz]

@ ZyngyDNA I found a link on CIC website titled Extend your stay in Canada. It mentions that if there is no date or stamp, the visa is valid for six month from date of entry!

I think that solves my problems, thank you for your help and time!

This leads to my next step question: Can I now start applying for sponsoring my husband and daughter while I am completing my days? Or am I required to wait and complete my four months, renew the PR card, then apply to sponsor them? (Keeping in mind that my PR card expires in Nov 2014 and by then I will have three months left to complete my residency obligation)

You should make sure that you are completely compliant with the residency obligation requirements, and can prove it, before making any attempt to sponsor. If you can do that, you should apply to renew your PR card at the same time. If you are non-compliant, either the sponsorship application or the renewal application will trigger the formal examination of your residency status and you could possibly end up losing your PR status as well.
Please note, and this is VERY IMPORTANT, the expiry date on your PR card is not the determining factor in your compliance. It is the 730 days inside Canada in the last 1825 days that matters. Any days outside that 1825 days period are no longer counted in your favour.

 

[drnafisa]

@ zardos, so that is 1825 days immediately before the submission date of PR renewal application, correct? If so, then I would have not completed the 730 days, yet. I would be compliant only after four months. So therefore I must apply after.

It is surprising that the immigration officer on the phone said I could start applying now for my family, even though I did not complete my days yet!!

 

[zardoz]

@ zardos, so that is 1825 days immediately before the submission date of PR renewal application, correct? If so, then I would have not completed the 730 days, yet. I would be compliant only after four months. So therefore I must apply after.

It is surprising that the immigration officer on the phone said I could start applying now for my family, even though I did not complete my days yet!!

Correct. A lot of people forget that days that were spent in Canada at the beginning of this 1825 days period drop off at the same time as new days are added to the end. This results in the total of in-Canada days not actually increasing.

Many people on the forum have been badly advised by calls to the CIC call centre and sometimes to visa offices as well. However, in your case, the immigration officer was working on the basis that you would immediately return to Canada to comply with the residency obligation requirements. This, you did not do.

 

[RQ2012]

drnafisa,
A pr card is merely a travel document. Therefore, expiry of pr card does not mean expiry of pr status. As a matter of fact, I renewed my pr card nearly 3 years after it was expired? That did not have any impact on my pr card renewal or citizenship application.
It might be advisable to wait at least a few weeks after you have accumulated 730 days, so as to mitigate risk of getting RQ for pr renewal.
Also, it might be advisable to exercise a bit of patience before filing sponsorship application.

 

[drnafisa]

@ RQ2012 there is no rule that says "your application for sponsorship eligibility depends on the number of days you have stayed in Canada". What about people who have recently recieved their permenant residence status and have only stayed in Canada for a few months then got married and applied for their spouse? They too stil have not completed 730 days.

Our intention is to relocate and the immigration officer assessing my sponsorship eligibility needs to be convinced about that and also acknowledge that during the sponsorship application in that procedure I would complete my days. As you mentioned, expiry of card not equals expiry of status. I have completed 600 days which is 80% of my obligation and still counting since I am here in Canada now. And renewal of PR card will only be applied once I complete my remaining days - therefore not triggering anything. So where is the risk in me applying for sponsorship application? Another school of thought says apply as soon as possible.