Does Canadian Short Visit (<72 hours) COVID testing rule makes any sense?

[GandiBaat]

The rule says

"Canadian citizens, people registered under the Indian Act, permanent residents and protected persons travelling to the United States are allowed to do their pre-entry molecular test before they leave Canada."

WHAT THE F*#&?

a. Why temporary residents of Canada who got the SAME vaccine are excluded? It smells like discrimination on national origin to me.
b. HOW can a test done BEFORE exposure detect the infection??????

I never thought Canadian authorities can be this dumb! Or there is more to it.

 

[canuck78]

The rule says

"Canadian citizens, people registered under the Indian Act, permanent residents and protected persons travelling to the United States are allowed to do their pre-entry molecular test before they leave Canada."

WHAT THE F*#&?

a. Why temporary residents of Canada who got the SAME vaccine are excluded? It smells like discrimination on national origin to me.
b. HOW can a test done BEFORE exposure detect the infection??????

I never thought Canadian authorities can be this dumb! Or there is more to it.

You are allowed to do a covid test up to 72 hours before entry so if you are only going to the US for a day or for a weekend you may be able to get away with doing the test in Canada before leaving and use that test to enter Canada. There can be processing delays for PCR tests which is why people are given 72hrs. If someone got exposed to covid on there day visit to the US they are unlikely to test positive the day they were exposed or the day after. The choice of what vaccines were approved in Canada has to do with many things including the companies applying for approval in Canada and presenting all their research. Some of the vaccine makers haven’t released all their studies and data about their vaccines. Some of the vaccines have also not shown great protection against covid compared to Moderna and Pfizer. Not sure why you think there is discrimination. People vaccinated with other vaccines are allowed to enter Canada but have to quarantine on arrival.

 

[GandiBaat]

You are allowed to do a covid test up to 72 hours before entry so if you are only going to the US for a day or for a weekend you may be able to get away with doing the test in Canada before leaving and use that test to enter Canada. There can be processing delays for PCR tests which is why people are given 72hrs. If someone got exposed to covid on there day visit to the US they are unlikely to test positive the day they were exposed or the day after. The choice of what vaccines were approved in Canada has to do with many things including the companies applying for approval in Canada and presenting all their research. Some of the vaccine makers haven’t released all their studies and data about their vaccines. Some of the vaccines have also not shown great protection against covid compared to Moderna and Pfizer. Not sure why you think there is discrimination. People vaccinated with other vaccines are allowed to enter Canada but have to quarantine on arrival.

To be honest, the entire test before you travel thing works for long distance and long time travellers decently. For anyone living near Canada border and trying to travel to USA, if you apply same method, it will not work! Because it takes upto 8-14 days for tests to show infection!

Best thing to test these folks --who visit USA for day visit etc-- is to quarentine them and do a day 8 test. Or atleast do a day 8 test AFTER then re-enter Canada.

The entire idea of testing in Canada to satisfy requirement of testing before you travel is laughable. It should be replaced with a take home test to be done by day 8 and people asked to do a 8 day isolation.

 

[GandiBaat]

Some of the vaccines have also not shown great protection against covid compared to Moderna and Pfizer. Not sure why you think there is discrimination.

Discrimination is different treatment to two people pure based on their nationality. A Temporary Resident in Canada who got vaccinated by same vaccines in Canada (via SAME damn healthcare system no less!) cannot do "pre-arrival" tests in Canada while a Citizen can. This is discrimination.
If you want to take a judement call based on vaccine, then do not allow both Citizen and temproray resident to do short visits based on their vaccines they have taken and NOT their national status.

Ultimately, you want to say : We trust this vaccine delivered by this healthcare system more and NOT we trust a person more based on their national origin!

 

[canuck78]

To be honest, the entire test before you travel thing works for long distance and long time travellers decently. For anyone living near Canada border and trying to travel to USA, if you apply same method, it will not work! Because it takes upto 8-14 days for tests to show infection!

Best thing to test these folks --who visit USA for day visit etc-- is to quarentine them and do a day 8 test. Or atleast do a day 8 test AFTER then re-enter Canada.

The entire idea of testing in Canada to satisfy requirement of testing before you travel is laughable. It should be replaced with a take home test to be done by day 8 and people asked to do a 8 day isolation.

Delta usually has a shorter incubation period. Around 4 days. There is no effective way to test someone to see if they picked up covid during a day or weekend trip. They wouldn’t test positive if people were required to test in the US before returning home. The borders being closed to non-essential travel was the most effective way of preventing spread from the US. Having to quarantine after a short trip to the US would have stopped travel so the government decided that the potential economic benefits of allowing shorter trips across the border for both fully vaccinated US and Canadian residents outweighed the potential risks.

 

[GandiBaat]

Delta usually has a shorter incubation period. Around 4 days. There is no effective way to test someone to see if they picked up covid during a day or weekend trip. They wouldn’t test positive if people were required to test in the US before returning home.

True! Thats why test on day 8 AFTER returning and ask people to isolate till then.

The borders being closed to non-essential travel was the most effective way of preventing spread from the US.

No doubt. I will actually prefer if they kept it that way only. Canada survived worst parts of pandemic because of this. Otherwise health care might have collapsed! Each time entry rules were relaxed it was followed by a spike in cases.

Having to quarantine after a short trip to the US would have stopped travel so the government decided that the potential economic benefits of allowing shorter trips across the border for both fully vaccinated US and Canadian residents outweighed the potential risks.

Well, then one can implement just a day 8 test! Atleast find a cluster before it becomes massive by contact tracing.

Pre-arrival tests and those which are done in Canada are not even an eyewash and should be done away with. Replace it with a day-8 test using take home test formats. Lifelabs etc already having such products.

A Pre-arrival test done in Canada before travel is a waste of a perfectly good test!

 

[canuck78]

Discrimination is different treatment to two people pure based on their nationality. A Temporary Resident in Canada who got vaccinated by same vaccines in Canada (via SAME damn healthcare system no less!) cannot do "pre-arrival" tests in Canada while a Citizen can. This is discrimination.
If you want to take a judement call based on vaccine, then do not allow both Citizen and temproray resident to do short visits based on their vaccines they have taken and NOT their national status.

Ultimately, you want to say : We trust this vaccine delivered by this healthcare system more and NOT we trust a person more based on their national origin!

Permanent residents, protected people and PRs have access to pre p-arrival testing in Canada for short trips to the US. It isn’t limited to Canadian citizens. Citizens, PRs and protected people are from a variety of nationalities. They are receiving a benefit based on their permanent status in Canada.

 

[GandiBaat]

Permanent residents, protected people and PRs have access to testing in Canada for short trips to the US. It isn’t limited to Canadian citizens. Citizens, PRs and protected people are from a variety of nationalities. They are receiving a benefit based on their permanent status in Canada.

Wrong.

Temporary resident IN CANADA have access to exactly SAME testing as PRs / Citizens et al.

Same - Day trip assumes that you are starting from Canada because it allows you to pre-test in Canada before departure. A temporary resident in Canada will have access to EXACTLY same testing facilities as a PR/Citizen etc because they are in canada and have access to Canadian commercial testing service providers.

I am a TR in Canada and I have done tests using same testing providers that a citizen/PR will use for travelling outside Canada.

Being a PR/Citizens do not confer any additional testing or preventive capabilities than being a TR in Canada.

 

[canuck78]

True! Thats why test on day 8 AFTER returning and ask people to isolate till then.


No doubt. I will actually prefer if they kept it that way only. Canada survived worst parts of pandemic because of this. Otherwise health care might have collapsed! Each time entry rules were relaxed it was followed by a spike in cases.


Well, then one can implement just a day 8 test! Atleast find a cluster before it becomes massive by contact tracing.

Pre-arrival tests and those which are done in Canada are not even an eyewash and should be done away with. Replace it with a day-8 test using take home test formats. Lifelabs etc already having such products.

A Pre-arrival test done in Canada before travel is a waste of a perfectly good test!

Testing after day 8 while having to quarantine wouldn’t make sense. After day 4-5 would make sense if there was a quarantine component. I don’t think anyone should be travelling for leisure these days but in some of these border regions people may be crossing to visit a family member, partner, etc. and having limited contact with others. If you open up the border to non-essential travel but then put in an 8 day quarantine then you are essentially closing the door to non-essential travel. There was clearly some calculation about the benefit to the economy if the border was opened up to vaccinated travellers.

 

[canuck78]

Wrong.

Temporary resident IN CANADA have access to exactly SAME testing as PRs / Citizens et al.

Same - Day trip assumes that you are starting from Canada because it allows you to pre-test in Canada before departure. A temporary resident in Canada will have access to EXACTLY same testing facilities as a PR/Citizen etc because they are in canada and have access to Canadian commercial testing service providers.

I am a TR in Canada and I have done tests using same testing providers that a citizen/PR will use for travelling outside Canada.

Being a PR/Citizens do not confer any additional testing or preventive capabilities than being a TR in Canada.

Corrected my statement since the testing I was referring to is pre-arrival testing. Citizens, PRs and protected people all have access to prearrival testing for short trips to the US. They come from a variety of nationalities.

 

[GandiBaat]

Testing after day 8 while having to quarantine wouldn’t make sense. After day 4-5 would make sense if there was a quarantine component.

Then a 4-5 days isolation is fine! I am sure wise folks in Health Canada can find optimal number of days for isolation. A no-isolation and pre-test before leaving canada is what I find stupid.

I don’t think anyone should be travelling for leisure these days but in some of these border regions people may be crossing to visit a family member, partner, etc.

No doubt!
I have not seen my parents in more than a year and they are missing childhood of their grandson but I am not complaining about it. Safety comes first.

If you open up the border to non-essential travel but then put in an 8 day quarantine then you are essentially closing the door to non-essential travel.

Well, pre-testing in Canada does not help. If quarenteen after a short visit to USA stops travel, then do a day-8 or day-4 testing AFTER the visit (without quarentine/isolation may be)! A day "-3" test that is being are done right now is a waste of test.

 

[GandiBaat]

Corrected my statement since the testing I was referring to is pre-arrival testing. Citizens, PRs and protected people all have access to prearrival testing for short trips to the US. They come from a variety of nationalities.

The correct statement is : "ANY ONE in Canada on a legal status has access to same pre-arrival testing for short trips to the US irrespective of their nationality."

pre-arrival tests are commercially available tests which are not limited by immigration status.