Do I really Need PR status??

[Fibbidiboo]

I'm an American, married last October to a Canadian. We're both retired and live part time in both countries. We're kind of like reverse snowbirds, summering here at our condo in Ontario. I was just told by a border officer I have no status here in Canada and I can be refused entry! Nice way to treat a "summerbird" I am hoping she was wrong and I can continue to enter each summer for the 5 months I stay here without being hassled-- just as the many thousands of snowbirds do coming into the US every winter. My wife stays 6 in order to not lose her OHIP. Do I need to get PR status (and spend the $1000+)? She would have to be my sponsor but according to one of the forms because we live in both countries she isn't eligible to do so. So, if I am compelled to get a PR and she must sponsor me then it looks as though we are in a Catch22. Help!

 

[Leon]

Re: Do I realy Need PR status??

It is true that an immigration officer has the right to deny anybody entry at any time if they are not a PR or a citizen. Get a Nexus card, that only costs $50 (I think) and should make your border crossings easier.

If your wife is a citizen, she can be outside Canada and still sponsor you for PR if it comes to that.

 

[Fibbidiboo]

Thanks for the tip.
I've (we've) had a Nexus card for years now and it was the border nazi at the Nexus lane who flagged us.
The sponsor form required for a PR card states that if she (the spouse) lives at all outside of Canada (we are snowbirds) she is not allowed to sponsor me. Sounds like more bureaucratic nonsensical logic that muddles the issue. I am contemplating just forgetting about it and winging it each time I cross. After all I am doing nothing but what thousands of others do going each way every year, most of whom I would bet have no such status, or feel a need for one.
While it is true that the Border guards are omnipotent, their rationale for denying me entry (if they were to) is so flimsy it doesn't pass the common sense test much less the reality that what I am doing is no different than thousands of US citizens do every summer in Canada, and the tens of thousands of Canadians do every winter in the US. So apparently I am the unlucky one, singled out and placed under this sword of Damocles unless I fork over a grand. Ah, the injustice.

 

[Alabaman]

I feel your pain... multiply that by 100 then you know what people from some other countries (e.g African countries) go through in North America (especially in the US)... so you are still lucky to be an American.

Anyways, isn't it true that if you come to Canada on a visa waiver you can only stay for 90 days (3 months)? From your post you stayed 5 months so that might be a problem right there. I think if you need to stay more than 90 days then you will need to get a visa. Some one correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Fibbidiboo]

No need for US or Canadian citizens crossing in to each others' countries to get a visa if we are visiting...and that goes for snowbirds who stay for up to 6 months each year in the US.
While I can sympathize with Africans, and other country's residents, in this thread I am talking specifically about two countries with the closest of relationships, where special rules regarding employment, taxation, bringing in goods, and more, have been crafted to make it easier to transition the borders and without unnecessary and stupid rules that I seem to have been caught up in.

 

[toby]

Thanks for the tip.
I've (we've) had a Nexus card for years now and it was the border nazi at the Nexus lane who flagged us.
The sponsor form required for a PR card states that if she (the spouse) lives at all outside of Canada (we are snowbirds) she is not allowed to sponsor me. Sounds like more bureaucratic nonsensical logic that muddles the issue. I am contemplating just forgetting about it and winging it each time I cross. After all I am doing nothing but what thousands of others do going each way every year, most of whom I would bet have no such status, or feel a need for one.
While it is true that the Border guards are omnipotent, their rationale for denying me entry (if they were to) is so flimsy it doesn't pass the common sense test much less the reality that what I am doing is no different than thousands of US citizens do every summer in Canada, and the tens of thousands of Canadians do every winter in the US. So apparently I am the unlucky one, singled out and placed under this sword of Damocles unless I fork over a grand. Ah, the injustice.

First, I don't think the USA allows you to be resident in another country without giving up residence in the US. I've read other posts where the poster was trying to so this, and was advised by those who profess to know these things that his plan was impossible. So getting permanent residency (PR) for you in Canada is a non-starter.

But if PR were an option, if your spouse is a citizen she can sponsor you from outside Canada. Only PRs sponsoring other PRs must reside in Canada during the process.

Second, ALabaman, I believe that the standard period for a visitor's visa for an American is 6 months unless the border officer decides on a shorter period for some reason.

Third: the power wielded by pocket Nazis, in te guise of border guards, and how to circumvent it.
It is true that perpetual tourists can be denied access at the whim of a border guard, but even the Canada Tax Act mentions tax treatment of "sojourners", foreigners who routinely spend up to 6 months (less a day) in Canada at (say) vacation properties. I'd print that part of the Act and keep it in my back pocket in case you meet that jerk of a border officer again. It's a lamentable part of our daily lives that these pocket Nazis wield so much power.

In fact, if you use the same border crossing repeatedly, I would ask to meet with the supervisor for 5 minutes when you next cross the border,
and review your situation with him or her. Don't mention the run-in with the Nazi or the supervisor will be forced to close ranks and protect the officer, no matter how silly . Then if you have trouble with the Nazi again, you can invite him/her to speak to her supervisor (more persuasive if you can name the supervisor).

Taxpayers, unite against the petty tyranny of petty bureaucrats!! (I'm having that emblazoned on my underwear.)

 

[scylla]

Alabaman - US passport holders are allowed a six month visit unless otherwise indicated at the border.

Fibbidiboo - You're by no means alone. My US citizen husband has been a Nexus card holder for years as well but was called into secondary inspection and questioned about his intentions on two occasions (he's got PR status now so this is no longer an issue). Another friend (also an American Nexus card holder) came extremely close to being denied entry all together about two months ago. I have a number of other friends who've had similar experiences entering Canada. I also have about an equal number of friends who've experienced these types of problems while entering the US (i.e. Canadians visiting the US) and threatened in much the same fashion. And yes, everyone I'm thinking of was traveling on a Nexus pass (an unusually high % of my friends are Nexus card holders) and none had done or were planning on doing anything illegal when entering either country. I think the short answer is as follows: (1) Too many people have broken the rules in the past and the rest of us are sometime unnecessarily penalized thanks to their bad behaviour; (2) Some of us (yourself included unfortunately) fit the profile of someone who might overstay because of a Canadian spouse and this means you're more likely to be questioned; (3) Sometimes border guards are massive a**holes; (4) Sometimes border guards seem like they are being massive a**holes when they are just doing their job and trying to figure out your true intentions in visiting the country.

So no satisfactory answer. But you're definitely very far from alone! And at least you're already one step ahead by having a Nexus card.

Off topic and out of curiosity, is your Nexus card photo absolutely horrific? My circle of Nexus card holding friends have this ongoing debate about who has the worst photo...

 

[Fibbidiboo]

I learned about the nebulous rules both borders apparently have when my (now) wife was running the gauntlet to get her green card for PR in the US. She did so in order to be as legit as possible and not to violate the murky rule regarding length of stay for Canadians in the US. What we found after much research and talking to border guards at several crossing points was that there are no set rules on length of stay other than no more than 6 months at a time. I was told by one guard in Washington state and elsewhere that each time you cross, the clock resets so that you could actually stay in the US for over 300 hundred days/yr! Bottom line, nobody outside the secret society of border guards knows for sure, or so I've found.
So now that I've been dragged into the office and had many keystrokes entered into the computer by the BN (border nazi) I am worried that when I flash my Nexus card the next time I attempt to come to Ontario, upchucking from their PC will be info that I co-own a home in Canada and that I promised to apply for PR status in Canada as soon as I could (I mean who wouldn't be concerned when the God-like BN says "you have no rights or status in Canada and we can deny you entry unless your spouse sponsors your PR?).
I like the idea of strolling into the office--assuming I get in the next time--and having a chat with a supervisor, but then I think "I've just made it in why take a chance this guy is gonna tell me to get the hell out?"
Oh well, I do have some official looking paper that I keep in the glove box that I got after this past episode that says I have until mid-October to at least apply for the PR, or something like that. I'm to show that to a pinhead BN if he tries to turn me around and that should get me past him.
This shouldn't be so hard.
Hell, if I'm crazy enough to pay $5.20 per gallon of gas and 13% tax on everything that costs anything in Canada these guys should welcome me!

 

[scylla]

First, I don't think the USA allows you to be resident in another country without giving up residence in the US. I've read other posts where the poster was trying to so this, and was advised by those who profess to know these things that his plan was impossible. So getting permanent residency (PR) for you in Canada is a non-starter.

If you're a US citizen, you can certain become a Canadian PR or even a Canadian citizen without losing your US citizenship status. I think the rules may have been different 10-15 years ago. However these days US citizenship is certainly not endangered by becoming a Canadian PR and I know many people who are dual citizens or hold citizenship in one country and PR status in the other. In fact, the big thing to remember about become a Canadian PR as a US citizen is that you must continue to file taxes in the US even if you're no longer a resident of the US.

 

[Alabaman]

While I can sympathize with Africans, and other country's residents, in this thread I am talking specifically about two countries with the closest of relationships, where special rules regarding employment, taxation, bringing in goods, and more, have been crafted to make it easier to transition the borders and without unnecessary and stupid rules that I seem to have been caught up in.

I agree with you 100%. It just doesn't make sense... the ties and connections are too strong between both countries for the stupid regulations and road blocks they put in place. They will realize some day.

 

[Leon]

It is not true that your wife can't sponsor you. First of all, she isn't even exclusively living outside Canada if she stays more than 6 months a year so she is still considered resident for the tax man and for OHIP so why not for immigration? Second, even if she wasn't considered a resident, there is an exception that allows Canadian citizens living abroad to sponsor their spouses or dependent children as long as they show plans to move to Canada when they get their PR. You have a house in Canada, well, there is your proof.

 

[Fibbidiboo]

Actually, in Section E of Form IMM1344A, question 4 asks, "Do you reside in Canada and NO other country?" Above it is states " If you answer NO to any question 1-4 you are NOT eligible to sponsor and should not submit your application. Well, five months of the year she resides in Florida, we have a home there!
Oh, and with the application and all the forms must be your receipt showing you've paid your $1000+ in fees.
Another puzzlingly poorly designed form, or am I missing something??
At the crux of this though is--why should I have to fork over the money for a semi-useless piece of plastic for my already bulging wallet when most other Americans don't?

 

[Leon]

Oh, but it is all open to interpretation. If they allow a citizen to sponsor when they are living exclusively outside Canada, why wouldn't they if they are living in Canada 6 months of the year? Your wife still has residency in Canada by staying more than 6 months every year. Just interpret it in the way that she lives in Canada but takes long vacations. Many people have applied to sponsor their spouse who lives in another country and have gone there for months to "visit" during their processing time. This is really no different.

Then again, if you don't want the plastic card, don't bother. I guess you will find out the next time you cross if the IO flagged you in the system or not.

 

[Fibbidiboo]

Right, and it shouldn't be that way. How about having clear rules, not decisions made by people who make up what is essentially their own law. If they are having a miserable day, not getting enough at home or it's a bad hair day, they can potentially ruin the lives of innocents. I called the visa office and they basically shrugged their shoulders, helpless to offer a solution. They also pointed out that I probably wouldn't be eligible for PR anyway since anyone staying less than 753 days in Canada the previous 5 years is a non-qualifier.

So I don't qualify for PR and may not be able to get in.. with my wife.....to my home, on the whims of some gun toting individual in a phone booth. Incredible!

 

[scylla]

They also pointed out that I probably wouldn't be eligible for PR anyway since anyone staying less than 753 days in Canada the previous 5 years is a non-qualifier.

Actually - you would qualify to retain your PR quite easily. The time you spend outside of Canada with your Canadian citizen spouse would count towards the 730 total. So you would have no problems retaining PR status.

It's the US green card rules that are a great deal stricter (i.e. no credit for time spent outside of country with a US citizen spouse).