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Do I need to renounce canadian PR?

Alex0123

Newbie
Dec 22, 2017
3
0
Hello there,
I was granted PR in 2006 along with my family, I was a minor at that time. We stayed there for 6 months but had to return to origin country due to some family matter. We were not aware of renouncing PR after leaving Canada and the PR has expired in 2011. I'm about to turn 18 this coming year and recently got known that if want to study in Canada then I would have to renounce my PR first. I do want to study and then finally settle in Canada.
So I checked this,
Guide 5781 – Applying to Voluntarily Renounce Your Permanent Resident Status
and I read in this guide that PR is renounced on basis of
Immigration and Refugee Protection Act
Since it has been around 10 years now, they may not renounce my PR and I may end up never entering Canada again.
My question- Is it really necessary to renounce my PR if I want to study in Canada?and...Since I do have PRTD even though expired one, should I try entering Canada through US border?

Your help would be greatly appreciated,
Alex
 
R

rish888

Guest
No need to renounce your PR. Many in your situation have successfully retained their PR status.

To maximize you chances, I recommend you enter Canada through the U.S. land border. Your odds are good.

Best Case: You enter without issue.

Worst Case: You are reported on entry. This allows you to enter Canada but you need to appeal the report within 30 days. After you appeal the report you have a hearing with an Immigration tribunal and you explain your situation. Best case they let you keep your PR status, worst case they reject your appeal, terminate your PR, and say you need to leave Canada. Once you leave Canada you can apply for a study permit.

Many may not want to deal with the uncertainty of an appeal yet want to at least try to save their PR status.

The way you can do this is by showing up at the land border and rolling the dice, if the officer says he will issue a report you can offer to renounce your PR status at the border. You can then turn back to the U.S. and apply for a study permit in the U.S.


Definitely don't renounce until you try to enter via the land border.

Notes:

1: If successful on entry you cannot leave Canada for 2 years. The way to avoid this is at the border asking for an official determination on your humanitarian and compassionate considerations. A successful determination will not only allow you to enter Canada but will also allow you to renew your PR card. Alternatively, if you don't ask for an official determination you cannot renew your PR card for 2 years. But also keep in mind the officer who needs to make an official determination may not be a nice as the first officer who might let you enter issue free. This a risk you need to decide if you want to take.

If you enter the regular way (without an official determination) then no leaving Canada for 2 years. Your Confirmation of Permanent Residence document will get you a health card and driver's license in most provinces and domestic tutting in most universities.

2: Check with your parents if you have a Social Insurance Number. If you don't have this number you cannot work. To get this number you need a PR card, so if you don't have a SIN number at the border you need to ask for an official determination.

Other route: The border is not the only route. The other route is applying for a PRTD, but I personally don't like this approach because I believe it offers a lower chance of success.


Best of Luck!

p.s. apply to universities quick. The universities I recommend applying to are:

1: McGill -- especially if you would like a quasi-European, 18 year old drinking age experience. McGill has a good management program.

2: University of Toronto -- Good for Political Science, International Relations, and Engineering.

3: University of British Columbia -- Not really sure what this is good for. I do know that Vancouver has good weather and UBC is less academically competitive than Toronto and McGill.

4: Queens: Another good one for business/management

5: Any other top ranked universities depending on what you want to study. QS rankings by subject is good for narrowing down the list.

The Top University:

Either McGill or University of Toronto depending on whose talking.

McGill does have funding issues but has nice branding and delivers an excellent education. It's in Quebec which if you like Europe should seal the deal for you. McGill also usually ranks #1 in Canada. While the education is solely in English, be prepared to learn French to improve job prospects and to just generally fit in better.

University of Toronto: Top notch education, less funding issues compared to McGill (though a bit more expensive. around 3-4 k extra I think) and is located in cosmopolitan Toronto. Internationally I think the reputation is a bit lower than McGill (whereas most Canadians would say university of Toronto is superior)
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
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@riish888 Not sure where your university knowledge is coming from. I think you are still a teenager and live overseas and hasn't attended university yet. Your university rankings and suggestions aren't correct.

This also seems to be the same poster than the one for Madagascar or maybe it was Mauritania.
 

Alex0123

Newbie
Dec 22, 2017
3
0
Thank you so much for your help rish888, I would like to include I am not a citizen of USA, I would try visitor visa for USA and I would be accompanied by my brother and parents while crossing land border to Canada. Would there be any problem in that case?
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
12,771
If you are all have expired PR cards and have not met your RO you will all likely be reported for not meeting your RO. You can still appeal.
 
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rish888

Guest
If you are all have expired PR cards and have not met your RO you will all likely be reported for not meeting your RO. You can still appeal.
Cross by yourself. Odds are better, trust me.

If you cross with your entire family then to the border officer it will look like your parents are trying to re-enter and you are just accompanying them.

If you cross by yourself then it becomes evident that your parents made the choice for you when you were young but your intention is to stay in Canada regardless of your parents. This will play out better.
 
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rish888

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@riish888 Not sure where your university knowledge is coming from. I think you are still a teenager and live overseas and hasn't attended university yet. Your university rankings and suggestions aren't correct.

This also seems to be the same poster than the one for Madagascar or maybe it was Mauritania.
Ik 3 kids in McGill, a whole bunch in UoT, and my cousin went to UBC. Also have some extended family members who went to Queens and Waterloo.

Objectively, QS and TIME rankings place McGill and UoT in the top 2. I think McGill came in second this year. McGill did come first last year in intl rankings.

There are of course quite a few other good unis but McGill, UBC, and UoT are the ones with the best rep internationally. Most people internationally put McGill (and UoT in close second) on the same pedestal as Georgetown/UPenn in the US or UCL in London. I have heard from my friends in Canada that McGill's domestic reputation however is less than stellar.

UBC does have an international rep of being less intensive academically. Not sure if this is same in Canada.
 
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rish888

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If you are all have expired PR cards and have not met your RO you will all likely be reported for not meeting your RO. You can still appeal.
If the OP crosses alone he can play the removed as a minor card. Should play out better IMO (with the usual caveat of no guarantees) than the whole family crossing (and I concur with your observation that if they cross as a family a report for all is likely.)
 

Alex0123

Newbie
Dec 22, 2017
3
0
Cross by yourself. Odds are better, trust me.

If you cross with your entire family then to the border officer it will look like your parents are trying to re-enter and you are just accompanying them.

If you cross by yourself then it becomes evident that your parents made the choice for you when you were young but your intention is to stay in Canada regardless of your parents. This will play out better.
thank you, I would take care of that :)
 
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rish888

Guest
thank you, I would take care of that :)
If you don't want to deal with an appeal, and if the officer is inclined to report you I would offer to renounce my PR status at the border and go back to the US. (No need to go to your home country.) and apply for a Study Permit from the US.

Processing time for a study permit in the US is about 6 weeks, and as long as your parents have a decent bank balance and you don't have any criminality issues getting a study permit should be pretty easy.
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
12,771
Ik 3 kids in McGill, a whole bunch in UoT, and my cousin went to UBC. Also have some extended family members who went to Queens and Waterloo.

Objectively, QS and TIME rankings place McGill and UoT in the top 2. I think McGill came in second this year.

There are of course quite a few other good unis but McGill, UBC, and UoT are the ones with the best rep internationally. Most people internationally put McGill (and UoT in close second) on the same pedestal as Georgetown/UPenn in the US or UCL in London. I have heard from my friends in Canada that McGill's domestic reputation however is less than stellar.

UBC does have an international rep of being less intensive academically. Not sure if this is same in Canada.
@scylla can add input as well.

The universities I recommend applying to are:

1: McGill -- especially if you would like a quasi-European, 18 year old drinking age experience. McGill has a good management program.

Decent university. Would recommend if you were born in Quebec or have lived there long enough to qualify for the quebec resident tuition. One of the 3 universities I would rceommend for AI.


2: University of Toronto -- Good for Political Science, International Relations, and Engineering.

Top university in Canada although I would probably recommend CS atWaterloo over Toronto. Best Business school along with York, Western, Queens


3: University of British Columbia -- Not really sure what this is good for. I do know that Vancouver has good weather and UBC is less academically competitive than Toronto and McGill.
I would definitely say that UBC is academically competitive with McGill and probably U of T as well. They are all large universities.

4: Queens: Another good one for business/management Both Queens, Western and York have excellent business schools.

5: Any other top ranked universities depending on what you want to study. QS rankings by subject is good for narrowing down the list.

The Top University:

Either McGill or University of Toronto depending on whose talking.

Definitely Toronto. Waterloo and Queens are my other top choices. Also like Mount Allison, St Francis Xavier and Acadia for primarily underground.

McGill does have funding issues but has nice branding and delivers an excellent education. It's in Quebec which if you like Europe should seal the deal for you. McGill also usually ranks #1 in Canada. While the education is solely in English, be prepared to learn French to improve job prospects and to just generally fit in better. Not true. Most do not stay and work in Quebec and you don't have to speak French to go to McGill and live in the surrounding areas. The cost of living is much more reasonable than other cities.

University of Toronto: Top notch education, less funding issues compared to McGill (though a bit more expensive. around 3-4 k extra I think) and is located in cosmopolitan Toronto. Internationally I think the reputation is a bit lower than McGill (whereas most Canadians would say university of Toronto is superior). U of T has a much better reputation internationally than McGill. Costs are higher between tuition and living expenses.
 
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rish888

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On Quebec Tuition:

Not sure how long the OP has lived in Canada, but people who have lived less than 3 months in Canada (outside Quebec) then go to Quebec for university qualify as Quebec residents for tuition purposes.

The above situation is commonly referred to as "Returning Canadian/Canadian born abroad"

Tuition Costs:

Assuming Quebec:

With Ancillary costs tuition works out to around 4k/year.

Outside Quebec tuition:

6-8k/year depending on the school. The more reputed ones are somewhere between 7-8k.


Room and Board:

Living expenses depend on the school but on-campus I would say around 12-15k for room and board.

Costs will probably drop in your second year if you decide to move off campus. (at least in Quebec with its decent housing costs, Toronto is pretty expensive for housing.)

Other Costs:

Of course budget another $100/month for public transport and a phone plan.

At least $50 a week for beer money/entertainment/eating out. Costs in this aspect can vary considerably depending on how much you would like to eat out/party.

Assuming you don't drink/party then the costs will of course be lower. If you drink/party a lot then the costs will be considerably higher. There is a alcohol monopoly in Canada that makes the costs high. (except in Quebec where the monopoly doesn't apply to beer and wine and thus reduces the cost.) Don't expect any of the 50-cent beers available in Europe. Also, the cost of those late-night poutines and pizza slices can add up quickly.

Of course if you're eating out a lot it means you're eating in campus less so choose your meal plans wisely and also check if the school allows you to carry over meal plan dollars to the second year. (I know McGill does this.)


On Employment:

Maybe look at getting a job. You can work part time, a few hours a week, and make more than enough money to live a good life assuming your parents cover tuition, room, and board.

Even 10 hours a week of working in a job that paying $10-15 an how equates to $100-150 a week, more than enough to not worry about running short on cash. (Lot of unis even have on campus jobs.) Alternatively, you can also tutor some kid in middle/high school for probably at least $20 an hour a few hours a week if a McJob is not your thing.

Oh, and the great thing about being a Permanent Resident? No need to get a work permit!

Of course if your parents are willing to cover everything then there is no need to work.

A note on Bilingualism:

If you go to Quebec, be prepared to learn French if you want to get a job. You can probably get a job knowing English but knowing French will increase opportunities by a lot. The same goes for internships. You can get by with just English, but knowing French will give more opportunities. (Imagine you're in a bar and there is a beautiful women (or man) that only speaks French. You'd wish you could speak French, wouldn't you?)

Also keep in mind that Canada is after all a bilingual nation so if you do end up studying in Quebec definitely take the opportunity to learn French. It is an asset that will most definitely help you later on in life.


On Scholarships and Financial Aid:

If you're really good academically, you will most probably get an entrance scholarship valued at around at least 4-5 k depending on the uni. It's only good for the first year but can offset the increased costs of living on campus.

If you're really good academically and have some really good extra curricular activities you can also get renewable scholarships that can easily surpass 10k/year. (and are good for all 4 years.)

Aside from merit scholarships there is of course the usual need based financial aid package of bursaries and loans which you can get depending on how much your parents make.

On British Columbia and Necessary Documentation:

For some stupid reason, British Columbia only accepts a valid PR card to get health insurance and a Driver's license. If you ask for an official determination at the border, this won't be a problem. but If you don't ask for an official determination then don't study in British Columbia. In the other Canadian provinces your Confirmation of Permanent Residence document with your passport will suffice for a health card and Driver's license.

The main documents you need for your day to day life is a Driver's license or photo card, a health card, and a Social Insurance number. (only needed to work.)

Documents you must bring to Canada is at minimum your birth certificate and passport, but you will not use this on a daily basis once you have your necessary Canadian documentation.

Unlike many countries Canada does not have a National ID system, so your driver's license functions as a de facto ID.
 
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Kaba16

Member
Mar 25, 2018
10
1
Hey all,
I'm OP of this thread under different username. I want to thank this forum and everyone who helped me out, as of now I got my R-1 Visa :)
That is under a month of PRTD application.
 
Oct 20, 2019
13
1
Hi,

Thanks so.much for your feedback. I am in a similar situation and wondering if I should renounce my PR as my wife and I have not met PR Residency requirements . The additional complexity is that we now have 2 minor children born outside Canada who are not canadian PRs. The dilemma that I am now faced with is that even if my wife and I dont renounce our PR and my wife and I are allowed into Canada and H and C consideration is made (honestly I dont have any reasons that warrant an H and C consideration), under what visa category should I bring my 2 minor children to Canada. I would like them to.be entitled to medical benefits at the minimum as I.am.not sure they will be.entitled to free education given they are not PRs. Could you please kindly clarify ?. Is it fair to say that there is a high degree of risk and uncertainty with the US border crossing approach and it would be more straight forward to renounce our PRs and start all over again?. Many thanks in advance . Your advice is very much appreciated.
 

scylla

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Hi,

Thanks so.much for your feedback. I am in a similar situation and wondering if I should renounce my PR as my wife and I have not met PR Residency requirements . The additional complexity is that we now have 2 minor children born outside Canada who are not canadian PRs. The dilemma that I am now faced with is that even if my wife and I dont renounce our PR and my wife and I are allowed into Canada and H and C consideration is made (honestly I dont have any reasons that warrant an H and C consideration), under what visa category should I bring my 2 minor children to Canada. I would like them to.be entitled to medical benefits at the minimum as I.am.not sure they will be.entitled to free education given they are not PRs. Could you please kindly clarify ?. Is it fair to say that there is a high degree of risk and uncertainty with the US border crossing approach and it would be more straight forward to renounce our PRs and start all over again?. Many thanks in advance . Your advice is very much appreciated.
If you don't meet the residency requirement, then it will be 2 years from the time you return to Canada before you will be able to submit an application to sponsor your children for PR (of course this assumes you are able to re-enter Canada without being reported for failing to meet RO). You are right in thinking that there will be complexities during these 2 years. You'll want to avoid leaving Canada entirely. You should also assume that your children will have no access to provincial health care coverage during these two years - plus the additional 6-8 months it will take to sponsor them since they will only be visitors during this time. I'm not sure about their ability to attend school. This might depend on where you are living. If access to medical benefits for your children is a deal-breaker, then I think your only option is to renounce your PR status and apply again from scratch.