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Different citizenship benefits

screech339

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dpenabill said:
Yes, as written, the grounds for revoking citizenship based on acts committed after becoming a citizen apply regardless of how citizenship was acquired, and thus apply to those who are a citizen by birth as well as naturalized citizens.

Whether or not this is constitutionally valid is still undecided despite Justice Rennie's decision in the Galati challenge. On its face, it appears that Justice Rennie ruled this is not unconstitutional. But since he ruled there was no justiciable case to rule on, I think his ruling on the constitutionality of this was mere dicta.

There is, however, a distinction between those who have only Canadian citizenship and those who have citizenship in another country in addition to Canadian citizenship (typically referred to as "dual citizens"), the additional grounds for revocation only applying to the latter. As a practical matter this group largely consists of naturalized citizens. So the practical impact of the law is that it disproportionately applies to naturalized citizens.

The whole "classes" of citizenship discussion is more rhetorical than substantive. The Charter and Constitutional rights apply to all citizens equally. But beyond that, the law is more about differences and lawful forms of discrimination. There are, for example, particular provisions of law which allow Passport Canada to refuse issuing a Canadian passport to some Canadian citizens (the application of this in practice appears to have expanded significantly in recent years), and courts have ruled that a citizen's mobility rights as protected by the Charter are not infringed by the denial of a passport. And of course, the mobility of some citizens is dramatically curtailed, such as those who are imprisoned for crimes. This is legitimate discrimination and restriction. The fact that the law creates these distinctions, and provides for such disparate treatment of Canadian citizens does not create different classes of citizenship.

Note for example that a huge lynchpin in Justice Rennie's decision, in the Galati challenge to Bill C-24, is that citizenship derives from statute, not from the Constitution or the Charter. "Jus soli," for example, in Justice Rennie's view and ruling, has been replaced by statute. I am not sure this will stand up in further appeals, or if otherwise brought before the courts in another matter, but for now it is an official decision . . . and it might be noted that earlier this month Justice Rennie got a big promotion and he now sits on the Federal Court of Appeals.
A lot of Canadian born citizens assumed it is in the charter that they have a right to Canadian citizenship by birth. That is a bad assumption as Judge Rennie probably got it right when he said nowhere in the charter that says that a child born in Canada is Canadian. It is written in law but not in Charter. Had the Constitution / Charter spelled out in words that a person born in Canada is in fact a Canadian, then Canadian Citizenship is a right to all people born inside Canada. Judge Rennie would have ruled that Canadian Citizenship is a birthright to those born inside Canada/on Canadian soil/territories.
 

mathlete

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Nov 11, 2013
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eileenf said:
1. US president: To be eligible to be president, a US citizen needs to be "natural born". This mean they got citizenship from the moment of their birth, either by jus soli (born on US soil) or through their citizen parents (as in US republican presidential nominee John McCain who was born in the Panama Canal Zone).

2. Are all Cdn citizenships equal before the law?: This question is the basis of Rocco Galati's suit against the revocation powers included in the new citizenship bill. Basically the argument is that by saying that Canadian citizens with a second citizenship can have their Cdn citizenship revoked, they're creating 2 classes of Canadian citizen: A cdn citizen who commits an act of "terror" but who has only one citizenship will be punished by jail time alone while a cdn citizen who commits an act of terror but has a second citizenship will be punished by jail time plus deportation and banishment from Canada.

3. Security clearance: PRs can get first level security screening aka "reliability screening" but they are ineligible for higher level security clearances.
Just to elaborate on the PR problem. PRs are the real second-class citizens. They pay taxes, cannot vote (not even municipally), cannot run for public office, cannot get a Canadian passport and are subject to residency requirements. If you are a PR who leaves Canada for work while working for a Canadian company are out of the Canada for more than 25% of the time you cannot get citizenship in perpetuity due to physical presence requirements. Furthermore PRs are de-prioritized for things like government jobs and graduate positions for Canadian law and medical schools over citizens.
 

OrcaBayVan

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Once your a Citizen there is no difference in Canada. Other Countries like the US have Constitutional differences.

LOL at the person above who thinks spying is rampant in the US and not in Canada or other Countries, news flash all Countries spy and violate the law on their own Citizens as well as others.
 

Leon

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Are there countries where PR's are allowed to vote, can get their host country passport and are not subject to residency requirements?

If you choose to immigrate to another country whether you are on a work permit and later PR or if you get PR from the start, there will be a period where you will live in that country with less rights than a citizen. However, after a certain number of years, you can apply and you can become a citizen of that country.

As far as that goes, Canada is not bad. PR's of Canada only have to meet the RO of 2/5 years. In many countries, you lose PR if you leave for more than 6 months. In Canada, you can apply for citizenship after 3 years as a PR, soon to be 4 with the new law. This is also fairly short compared to many other countries.
 

mathlete

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torontosm said:
Well, of course PR's can't vote or get passports either. I fail to see your point.
You just made my point. When you live somewhere for your entire adult life like I have. Your wife is Canada, your kid is Canadian, you pay taxes on 3 different levels but you can't vote and government policy prevents you from becoming a bona fide citizen then you are effectively a second class citizen.
 

YorkFactory

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eileenf said:
There are barriers. Some citizenships are not revokable or require official permission for renunciation, which may or may not be granted. Some require exorbitant fees (as in the USA). Some citizenships persist down generations and bearers may be unaware that they hold them.
Moreover, since whether it's even possible to renounce another citizenship is inherently based on what the other country is, it seems like this policy, on its face, violates Section 15 of the Charter by discriminating based on ethnicity and/or national origin. Not that they couldn't get there with the notwithstanding clause, but no federal Parliament has ever used it.
 

thecoolguysam

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Leon said:
Are there countries where PR's are allowed to vote, can get their host country passport and are not subject to residency requirements?

If you choose to immigrate to another country whether you are on a work permit and later PR or if you get PR from the start, there will be a period where you will live in that country with less rights than a citizen. However, after a certain number of years, you can apply and you can become a citizen of that country.

As far as that goes, Canada is not bad. PR's of Canada only have to meet the RO of 2/5 years. In many countries, you lose PR if you leave for more than 6 months. In Canada, you can apply for citizenship after 3 years as a PR, soon to be 4 with the new law. This is also fairly short compared to many other countries.
One of my friends live in New Zealand and he is a PR there and he said that he has voting rights.
 

torontosm

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mathlete said:
You just made my point. When you live somewhere for your entire adult life like I have. Your wife is Canada, your kid is Canadian, you pay taxes on 3 different levels but you can't vote and government policy prevents you from becoming a bona fide citizen then you are effectively a second class citizen.
I'm very confused about what exactly your point is that I just made. You are not a citizen just because your wife and kids are. The government has provided a clear path for you to become a citizen, but until that happens, you will not qualify for the benefits you seek. Are you saying that the government should immediately and automatically hand out citizenship to anyone whose spouse or kids are Canadian? That would be disastrous!

And please stop bringing up taxes...I'm tired of people saying that because they pay taxes, the government owes them citizenship. Your taxes fund the social services you and your family use, and have nothing at all do to with your immigration status.
 

ZingyDNA

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torontosm said:
PR's are citizens at all, so therefore they can't be "second-class" citizens.
Oh yeah, of course, PR's are even lower than second-class citizens :p

Citizens>2nd class citizens>>>PR's >>>Temp workers/visitors/students >= illegal, I mean, undocumented immigrants. Hey, at least I'm in the middle of the spectrum!
 

screech339

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torontosm said:
And please stop bringing up taxes...I'm tired of people saying that because they pay taxes, the government owes them citizenship. Your taxes fund the social services you and your family use, and have nothing at all do to with your immigration status.
+1 for you.
 

CanadianCountry

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I think its the case of "taxation without representation" and longer the people go without representation, more they start calling it foul.

screech339 said:
+1 for you.
 

Magkang

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Feb 23, 2015
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Leon said:
Are there countries where PR's are allowed to vote, can get their host country passport and are not subject to residency requirements?

If you choose to immigrate to another country whether you are on a work permit and later PR or if you get PR from the start, there will be a period where you will live in that country with less rights than a citizen. However, after a certain number of years, you can apply and you can become a citizen of that country.

As far as that goes, Canada is not bad. PR's of Canada only have to meet the RO of 2/5 years. In many countries, you lose PR if you leave for more than 6 months. In Canada, you can apply for citizenship after 3 years as a PR, soon to be 4 with the new law. This is also fairly short compared to many other countries.
HONG KONG!!!!
After 7years of living and being a Resident as a skilled worker, you can apply as a Permanent Resident
If granted Permanent Residency, a PR has a right of abode in Hong Kong including voting rights and applying for jobs without needing a Sponsor.
Residency is maintained by showing up every 3 years (physical residency is not a rule and therefore doesn't matter. Just show up and exit once every 3 years).
If PR Status is lost, you still have aright to enter and exit Hong Kong without a visa and apply for jobs without sponsorship. (the only loss will be the right to vote.) ;D