declaring other citizenships on citizenship application

[links18]

He will mention it on his citizenship app , there was no initial attempt to kind of hide or whatever you may think he'd have done , since he always identified himself here with his uk passport lived all his life there immigrated as British he was wondering how relevant it'd be to say he's citizen of his father's country of birth on that application
Of course according to the form they just want to know all the citizenships you have , the question is would he have to provide photocopies of the British passport only ( the one. He always used ) or both ?

Copies of all passports he may have relayed to the qualification period for Canadian citizenship.

 

[tyl92]

He just had one uk passport since he's in Canada
Would you include both passports copies or just the British so ircc can see the dates

 

[links18]

He just had one uk passport since he's in Canada
Would you include both passports copies or just the British so ircc can see the dates

Not understanding. Did he have passports from multiple countries? Does he currently have multiple passports? Include copies of any current passports and any expired passports that relate to the qualification period.

 

[Natan]

Moreover, so far U.S. policy continues to actually do what it can to make it rather difficult to lose U.S. citizenship (other than that obtained by fraud). The U.S. prefers to retain dominion. (The fee to even apply to relinquish U.S. citizenship is very high.)

It should be noted that there are two primary ways for Americans to give up their U.S. citizenship:

1. A citizen can renounce their U.S. citizenship, even if the result of such renunciation is statelessness, by applying to the U.S. Dept. of State (DoS), via a U.S. embassy/consulate abroad and paying a hefty fee. Once approved, the applicant will receive a certificate declaring their renouncement effective a date certain. This is the DoS's prefferred method of giving up citizenship because it provides the DoS with oversight and provides the renunciant certainty in their loss of citizenship on a date certain.

2. A citizen can relinquish their U.S. citizenship, except where such relinquishment would result in an American born citizen being rendered stateless, by the commission of one of the following three acts: (i) an expatriating act; (ii) a potentially expatriating act with intent to relinquish citizenship; or (iii) behaviour inconsistent with the intent to retain citizenship. This method is not preferred by DoS and comes with some significant uncertainties, such as, (a) the relinquishment may not be recognized by the DoS; (b) the date of relinquishment may be uncertain; (c) a citizen may have been assessed by DoS as having relinquished citizenship (retroactively) without necessarily having intended to do so; (d) the DoS may capriciously reverse their assessment of relinquishment and find that the citizen never relinquished and apply this reassessment retroactively.

The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) of 2010 has enabled the U.S. Government to require all financial institutions doing business in the U.S.A. to report on all suspected U.S. Tax Person accounts to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FINCEN) of the U.S. Dept. of the Treasury on pain of crippling tax penalties to the foreign financial institutions. It should be noted that this policy has nothing to do with apprehending or deterring tax evasion, for the following reasons: (i) the vast majority of Americans caught in this net do not owe U.S. taxes; (ii) American tax evaders aviod their tax liability by sophisticated means that are not uncovered by FATCA; (iii) the costs to the U.S. Government of implementing and maintaining FATCA are greater, by magnitudes, than the taxes they can recover; and (iv) despite promises to the contrary, the U.S. does not share tax information on U.S. Tax Persons claimed by other nations -- in fact, the U.S. is one of the best, and certainly the safest, tax haven on the planet.

Due to the U.S. Government's heavy handed enforcement of FATCA, the DoS has made relinquishment of citizenship difficult. DoS wants oversight over the process. Thus, DoS has often refused to officially sanction acts of relinquishment that were caused by potentially expatriating acts; they have reversed previous assessments of relinquished citizenships (resulting in large potential tax penalties, for those who were denied U.S. passports in the 1970s and 80s, for failing to file their U.S. tax returns). And they have worked very hard to muddy the waters between renouncement and relinquishment of citizenship. But both remain valid, legally sanctioned methods of giving up citizenship.

In contrast, the prospect of the U.S. even attempting to deem a U.S. citizen to have relinquished his or her citizenship by failing to disclose U.S. citizenship in an application for Canadian citizenship is indeed extremely remote. Moreover, current U.S. law regarding this essentially requires an overt, affirmative act evidencing intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship, meaning something more than an inference of relinquishing U.S. citizenship (more than merely not disclosing it in a Canadian citizenship application).

I disagree with your assessment. Failure to disclose U.S. citizenship on a signed form that specifically asks that all citizenships be declared is an overt act. Had such a form been submitted to the U.S. Government, the omission would be perjury, a felony punishable with up to five years imprisonment, under Federal law. The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 stipulates that cumulative imprisonment for at least one year and one day is sufficient to deport an immigrant. This has been used to strip multi-national U.S. citizens of their citizenship and deport them (even those born in the U.S.A. who have never established, or availed themselves of, their second nationality). While I agree that having one's citizenship revoked over this single issue is extremely remote, it seems foolish to play fast and loose with the DoS when the repercussions can be so dire.

The US State Department has already said that those US citizens naturalizing in a foreign state and taking a routine oath are deemed to have not intended to renounce US citizenship. They aren't going to care how you identified yourself to a foreign government. When was the last time someone involuntarily lost their US citizenship after such an event? A US citizen who also hold other citizenships will routinely identify himself to other governments with the other citizenships. Now, if a US citizen were to identify himself to US authorities as a foreign citizen then that might be an issue, but still the US typically does not aggressively seek to expatriate its citizens.

Taking a routine oath of citizenship, in and of itself, does not establish intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Taking a routine oath after having committed what amounts to perjury [under U.S. law] by a willful failure to declare U.S. citizenship is another matter altogether.

--
There is another very important point to note. Once the DoS declares someone to have relinquished their citizenship, that individual effectively ceases to be a U.S. citizen from that point onward. To retain citizenship, the relinquisher would be required to file a law suit against the DoS to overturn their decision. Even if the relinquisher wins at trial, the DoS will continue to appeal the case at least until it reaches the Circuit Court of Appeals. It can take upwards of 18 years for such a case to wend its way through the courts and reach the Circuit Court of Appeals, costing as much as US$ 250,000 or more in legal fees. If you cannot afford the legal fees at any critical juncture, you have lost your case without the right to reopen it. It only takes one incompetent lawyer to cost you your case. Even a competent lawyer, through inattentiveness at the wrong moment, or due to random human error, can cost you your case. There is also a possibility that DoS or CBP will ban you from entry into the U.S. until a final court mandate is issued -- meaning you might have to vet and retain attorneys and fight your case from abroad.

 

[tyl92]

Yes he has two passports
But the other one he never uses it or even used it
All the stamps are on the uk one and his pr card showing that he is british

 

[harirajmohan]

Yes he has two passports
But the other one he never uses it or even used it
All the stamps are on the uk one and his pr card showing that he is british

How does it matter if he uses it or not. They ask if a person holds other citizenship. They are not asking to list the citizenship that has been used.

 

[keesio]

Yes he has two passports
But the other one he never uses it or even used it
All the stamps are on the uk one and his pr card showing that he is british

passport doesn't matter here. You can be a citizen of a country without having a passport (in fact, i know many Canadians and Americans who never bothered getting one since they never travel outside the country).

the concern I now have is that if the OP's friend declared just one citizenship when applying for PR, is that not a type of misrepresentation? And that can get exposed if he applies for citizenship and declares both this time? And if he does not, then it will be misrepresentation again?

 

[tyl92]

I think the simplest way would be to just mention it on the form
When he arrived in Canada he didn't know about it , it was late 2013's that he found out about it
Anyways the wisest way would be to mention it on the form to avoid any complications

 

[links18]

I think the simplest way would be to just mention it on the form
When he arrived in Canada he didn't know about it , it was late 2013's that he found out about it
Anyways the wisest way would be to mention it on the form to avoid any complications

Perhaps include a cover letter explaining the status of the "junior citizenship." I know people who applied for PR with one citizenship, obtained a second citizenship after landing and then subsequently got Canadian citizenship. Its really not a problem, if it is all above board. If your friend had the second citizenship when he applied for PR--but didn't really know he had it then its not really willful misrepresentation. Lots of people are in this boat. Many people are ignorant of citizenship laws from various countries and don't even realize they are a citizen of a particular country or think that maybe they lost that citizenship when they acquired another.

But this does raise a point in regard to Dpenabill's post underlying the problems with the current revocation procedures for misrepresentation. Hypothetical case: An applicant was born in Country A. Country A is a jus soli country and the applicant acquired its citizenship at birth. Applicant subsequently moves with family to country B as a child and acquires its citizenship. As an adult, applicant immigrates to Canada, but only declares Country B's citizenship, because he was erroneously told that acquiring country B's citizenship means he lost Country A's automatically. Applicant becomes a Canadian citizen only declaring Country B's citizenship, but correctly identifying the country of birth. Two years later--during some kind of audit at IRCC, some bureaucrat looks at application again and realizing that country A is a jus soli nation decides that the applicant was its citizen at time of application and decides unilaterally that applicant committed fraud. IRCC sends a letter announcing the citizenship revocation to the last known address, but applicant never gets it because he/she has since moved. Please tell me why this can't happen?

 

[links18]

It should be noted that there are two primary ways for Americans to give up their U.S. citizenship:

1. A citizen can renounce their U.S. citizenship, even if the result of such renunciation is statelessness, by applying to the U.S. Dept. of State (DoS), via a U.S. embassy/consulate abroad and paying a hefty fee. Once approved, the applicant will receive a certificate declaring their renouncement effective a date certain. This is the DoS's prefferred method of giving up citizenship because it provides the DoS with oversight and provides the renunciant certainty in their loss of citizenship on a date certain.

2. A citizen can relinquish their U.S. citizenship, except where such relinquishment would result in an American born citizen being rendered stateless, by the commission of one of the following three acts: (i) an expatriating act; (ii) a potentially expatriating act with intent to relinquish citizenship; or (iii) behaviour inconsistent with the intent to retain citizenship. This method is not preferred by DoS and comes with some significant uncertainties, such as, (a) the relinquishment may not be recognized by the DoS; (b) the date of relinquishment may be uncertain; (c) a citizen may have been assessed by DoS as having relinquished citizenship (retroactively) without necessarily having intended to do so; (d) the DoS may capriciously reverse their assessment of relinquishment and find that the citizen never relinquished and apply this reassessment retroactively.

The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) of 2010 has enabled the U.S. Government to require all financial institutions doing business in the U.S.A. to report on all suspected U.S. Tax Person accounts to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FINCEN) of the U.S. Dept. of the Treasury on pain of crippling tax penalties to the foreign financial institutions. It should be noted that this policy has nothing to do with apprehending or deterring tax evasion, for the following reasons: (i) the vast majority of Americans caught in this net do not owe U.S. taxes; (ii) American tax evaders aviod their tax liability by sophisticated means that are not uncovered by FATCA; (iii) the costs to the U.S. Government of implementing and maintaining FATCA are greater, by magnitudes, than the taxes they can recover; and (iv) despite promises to the contrary, the U.S. does not share tax information on U.S. Tax Persons claimed by other nations -- in fact, the U.S. is one of the best, and certainly the safest, tax haven on the planet.

Due to the U.S. Government's heavy handed enforcement of FATCA, the DoS has made relinquishment of citizenship difficult. DoS wants oversight over the process. Thus, DoS has often refused to officially sanction acts of relinquishment that were caused by potentially expatriating acts; they have reversed previous assessments of relinquished citizenships (resulting in large potential tax penalties, for those who were denied U.S. passports in the 1970s and 80s, for failing to file their U.S. tax returns). And they have worked very hard to muddy the waters between renouncement and relinquishment of citizenship. But both remain valid, legally sanctioned methods of giving up citizenship.

I disagree with your assessment. Failure to disclose U.S. citizenship on a signed form that specifically asks that all citizenships be declared is an overt act. Had such a form been submitted to the U.S. Government, the omission would be perjury, a felony punishable with up to five years imprisonment, under Federal law. The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 stipulates that cumulative imprisonment for at least one year and one day is sufficient to deport an immigrant. This has been used to strip multi-national U.S. citizens of their citizenship and deport them (even those born in the U.S.A. who have never established, or availed themselves of, their second nationality). While I agree that having one's citizenship revoked over this single issue is extremely remote, it seems foolish to play fast and loose with the DoS when the repercussions can be so dire.

Taking a routine oath of citizenship, in and of itself, does not establish intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Taking a routine oath after having committed what amounts to perjury [under U.S. law] by a willful failure to declare U.S. citizenship is another matter altogether.

--
There is another very important point to note. Once the DoS declares someone to have relinquished their citizenship, that individual effectively ceases to be a U.S. citizen from that point onward. To retain citizenship, the relinquisher would be required to file a law suit against the DoS to overturn their decision. Even if the relinquisher wins at trial, the DoS will continue to appeal the case at least until it reaches the Circuit Court of Appeals. It can take upwards of 18 years for such a case to wend its way through the courts and reach the Circuit Court of Appeals, costing as much as US$ 250,000 or more in legal fees. If you cannot afford the legal fees at any critical juncture, you have lost your case without the right to reopen it. It only takes one incompetent lawyer to cost you your case. Even a competent lawyer, through inattentiveness at the wrong moment, or due to random human error, can cost you your case. There is also a possibility that DoS or CBP will ban you from entry into the U.S. until a final court mandate is issued -- meaning you might have to vet and retain attorneys and fight your case from abroad.

It may very well be the case that a person does not identify themselves to a foreign government as a US citizen out of fear of Anti-Americanism in that country. Doing so, while a potential criminal offense in the foreign country, could very well be construed as an attempt by said person to protect their US citizenship. I am not sure why you are so fascinated with this? Can you give some concrete recent examples of people who have involuntarily lost their US citizenship after failing to declare it to a foreign government--but then continued to act as a US citizens in front of US authorities? Are you telling me the next time I fly to a third country and identify myself to its authorities only as a Canadian citizen--I risk losing my US citizenship? Am I supposed to be make sure the next time I drive into Canada from the US I present both passports less the CBSA run over the border and tell CBP I failed to identify myself as a US citizen. I highly doubt it.

 

[keesio]

Am I supposed to be make sure the next time I drive into Canada from the US I present both passports less the CBSA run over the border and tell CBP I failed to identify myself as a US citizen. I highly doubt it.

No, the rules are pretty clear that CBSA wants you to identify yourself as a Canadian citizen if you are coming to Canada - similar to CBP wanting you to declare yourself as an American citizen when entering the USA (though Canada is not as strict about it). But the act of applying for citizenship is a bit different. The US State Department makes it clear that there may be potential pitfalls when applying for foreign citizenship.

 

[links18]

No, the rules are pretty clear that CBSA wants you to identify yourself as a Canadian citizen if you are coming to Canada - similar to CBP wanting you to declare yourself as an American citizen when entering the USA (though Canada is not as strict about it). But the act of applying for citizenship is a bit different. The US State Department makes it clear that there may be potential pitfalls when applying for foreign citizenship.

But aren't you making something of a legal declaration of your citizenship every time your cross an international border, including possibly signing a form attesting to your citizenship? Of course, there is generally only space for one citizenship on such forms.

I really don't think anyone in the US would care what you did as long as you didn't willfully and with intent renounce your US citizenship. Hiding your US citizenship while applying for another country's citizenship may very well be evidence of an intent to keep it. But this is pretty theoretical. The point is that simply failing to identify yourself as a US citizen to a foreign government is very unlikely to get your US citizenship pulled against your will.

 

[keesio]

But aren't you making something of a legal declaration of your citizenship every time your cross an international border, including possibly signing a form attesting to your citizenship? Of course, there is generally only space for one citizenship on such forms.

Yes, you are making a legal declaration that you are of a specific citizenship when you enter. But most countries just want to know that you have a legal right to enter the country and if you are a national of the country you are entering, they want you to declare yourself as such over any other nationality. CBSA's goal is to decide if you can enter and putting up your Canadian citizenship is the best document you can give them so they want that. It doesn't matter what else you have. Unlike applying for citizenship, CBSA are unconcerned about all potential citizenships you may have.

I really don't think anyone in the US would care what you did as long as you didn't willfully and with intent renounce your US citizenship. Hiding your US citizenship while applying for another country's citizenship may very well be evidence of an intent to keep it. But this is pretty theoretical. The point is that simply failing to identify yourself as a US citizen to a foreign government is very unlikely to get your US citizenship pulled against your will.

But yeah, I tend to agree that the US (for the most part) doesn't really care if you acquire another citizenship. There is indeed a clause in there cautioning you about it but in reality there is little to be concerned about. But IMHO, hiding anything usually does not work well and draws suspicion - regardless of whether the intent was good or not.

 

[Natan]

But aren't you making something of a legal declaration of your citizenship every time your cross an international border, including possibly signing a form attesting to your citizenship? Of course, there is generally only space for one citizenship on such forms.

I really don't think anyone in the US would care what you did as long as you didn't willfully and with intent renounce your US citizenship. Hiding your US citizenship while applying for another country's citizenship may very well be evidence of an intent to keep it. But this is pretty theoretical. The point is that simply failing to identify yourself as a US citizen to a foreign government is very unlikely to get your US citizenship pulled against your will.

The one thing that you are failing to take into consideration is that the Canadian citizen applicant is committing a potentially expatriating act (i.e., naturalizing as a Canadian citizen). This act, in and of itself, opens the possibility that the citizen may be committing said act with the intent to relinquish citizenship. Once this potentially expatriating act is committed, the DoS may, at anytime thereafter, turn a critical eye to this individual's actions to make a determination whether there was or was not intent to relinquish citizenship; or if the individual has committed acts that are inconsistent with an intent to maintain citizenship, regardless of intent; or if the citizen committed a [bona fide] expatriating act.

Failing to declare U.S. citizenship on a signed Canadian citizenship application is no different than officially denying that one is a U.S. citizen. This is vastly different than failing to declare U.S. citizenship verbally, while not under oath. Denying U.S. citizenship out of a generalized, non specific fear is not excusable under U.S. law. U.S. immigration law only recognizes specific, dire and imminent threats as an excuse for criminal actions (perjury is a criminal action, regardless of the jurisdiction of its commission). Thus, if your plane is being hijacked, denying U.S. citizenship is excusable. Because an immigration officer sneered at you, is not.

The problem with citing cases, as you requested, is that these cases are neither published nor publicized. There is zero public sympathy for expatriates in the USA, when bad things befall them, they are seen as getting their just deserts -- American exceptionalism is almost universally embraced in America's public sphere. There is a rumoured case of a woman who had her U.S. citizenship revoked because she failed to list her U.S. citizenship on her application for a Canadian passport -- but I can provide no citation for this event.

On the other hand, there are literally hundreds of cases of U.S. born individuals who have had their U.S. citizenships revoked and been deported to countries because (i) a claim to citizenship through descent can be made by DoS on their behalf; and (ii) the U.S. is in a position to force that country to accept deportees, whether they want them or not (Jamaica being a prime example).

I will agree that the chances of having one's citizenship revoked simply because they committed perjury to a third nation by failing to declare their U.S. citizenship is remote, even extremely remote. But committing such a deed is also indicative of an individual likely to commit other deeds, which taken together, may lead DoS to find an intent to relinquish in their actions. Let's take a look at a hypothetical situation:

An individual applies for Canadian citizenship and fails to declare U.S. citizenship. After becoming a Canadian citizen, she votes in Canadian elections. She does not continue to vote in American elections. She works in Canada and files Canadian tax returns. Because she does not owe U.S. taxes, and does not own as much as US$ 10,000 in non U.S. bank accounts, nor any assets, she does not file U.S. taxes -- which is perfectly legal. She acquires a Canadian enhanced drivers licence. She allows her American passport to lapse because she does not travel. Once or twice, she has travelled to the USA on her Canadian enhanced drivers licence, because she no longer has a valid U.S. travel document. Taken as a whole, DoS personnel may conclude that this is the behaviour of someone who intended to relinquish U.S. citizenship and revoke her citizenship on that basis (without necessarily notifying her of their action). This sort of thing has happened countless times. There are many Americans who have migrated to Canada and lost their citizenship this way. Many of them were refused U.S. passports in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. And some of these ex-citizens have had their U.S. citizenships retroactively restored by DoS since 2010 (because of FATCA?), making them liable for form-crimes and potentially bankrupting penalties for failing to file U.S. tax returns.

If there is only room on the form for a single citizenship, then write very small and make sure "USA" is included.

You ask, "I am not sure why you are so fascinated with this?" I am a multinational American born citizen. The U.S. has, on several occasions, threatened to revoke my citizenship, threatened to deport me, and threatened to declare me inadmissible to the U.S. I am currently living in-exile and making the best of life in Canada (thank you Canada for taking us in!) While my life is not a worse case scenario, it is certainly not a best case scenario either. Maintaining U.S. citizenship is important to me and, as a multinational and occasional expatriate, I have made myself an expert on how to protect my status. I share my knowledge (and paranoia?) here to help others safeguard their U.S. citizenship.

 

[Natan]

Yes, you are making a legal declaration that you are of a specific citizenship when you enter. But most countries just want to know that you have a legal right to enter the country and if you are a national of the country you are entering, they want you to declare yourself as such over any other nationality. CBSA's goal is to decide if you can enter and putting up your Canadian citizenship is the best document you can give them so they want that. It doesn't matter what else you have. Unlike applying for citizenship, CBSA are unconcerned about all potential citizenships you may have.

When entering a country and [verbally] asked for citizenship, declare the citizenship of the travel document you are employing to enter the country. If you are required to fill out a form stating your citizenship, and you are a U.S. citizen, always include "USA", even if you're not travelling on a U.S. travel document. It is unwise, in the extreme, to volunteer multiple passports when entering a country. In fact, voluntarily providing a foreign travel document as identification to a U.S. CBP agent while situate in the USA (or at one of its ports), unless it was specifically requested, is illegal and grounds for revocation of U.S. citizenship. In any case, lying to a CBP agent, in the commission of his/her duty, is a criminal offence punishable with imprisonment. If you are asked if you are a dual citizen and to name the countries of your citizenship, do not lie, even by omission.