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Crossing US boarder after rejected PRTD

algdantes

Star Member
Sep 7, 2016
54
5
Hi,

Me and my mom recently applied for PRTDs under H&C. We applied together but mine got approved earlier. Yesterday we found out that hers was rejected and we have 60days to appleal. My mom has a US visa and we're planning on appealing. So my question now is, can we still do the cross through the US boarder within the 60-day appleal period? Would she be considered not a PR already and denied entry?
 

torontosm

Champion Member
Apr 3, 2013
1,677
261
algdantes said:
Hi,

Me and my mom recently applied for PRTDs under H&C. We applied together but mine got approved earlier. Yesterday we found out that hers was rejected and we have 60days to appleal. My mom has a US visa and we're planning on appealing. So my question now is, can we still do the cross through the US boarder within the 60-day appleal period? Would she be considered not a PR already and denied entry?
If her PRTD has already been rejected, that means that her PR status is in the process of being revoked and the only chance of saving it is the appeal. You mother can no longer avail the loophole of taking her chances by crossing through a land border.
 

Bcboundboy

Hero Member
Aug 16, 2016
378
29
You need to understand what people mean when they suggest entering via the land border. Because you can progress as far as the border without requiring any Canadian travel documents or identity, if you can prove that you are a PR at that border (e.g. with other documents, or databases), you have a legal right of entry to Canada.

If you cannot meet the Residency Obligation (because fewer days are left in it than you need to have), then IF you go through this and that is not worked out, you can then remain in Canada until you do meet the RO. Once you have done so, your PR is back in good standing.

The reason this option is not available to people flying in is because the travel documents themselves can be used to check your RO status.

In your instance, the investigation into the RO has already been made, and your mom has failed it. Had she presented at the US land border and this not been realised, she could have entered and stayed in Canada until she was legal. Because she applied for the document, CIC already know that her PR is ineligible, and it is in the process of being revoked.

Winning the appeal is now your only chance. You do not have the option of presenting at the land border and hoping the RO status isn't noticed, because it has already been noticed.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,281
3,040
algdantes said:
Hi,

Me and my mom recently applied for PRTDs under H&C. We applied together but mine got approved earlier. Yesterday we found out that hers was rejected and we have 60days to appleal. My mom has a US visa and we're planning on appealing. So my question now is, can we still do the cross through the US boarder within the 60-day appleal period? Would she be considered not a PR already and denied entry?
While I do not disagree with the other posts, it is my sense they miss the point of the query.

I believe you are simply asking whether she will still be allowed to enter Canada at a land-border crossing, knowing and understanding that to preserve her PR status she must timely make the appeal and then win the appeal.

As long as she makes the appeal, she should be allowed to enter Canada without any problem.

What will actually happen at the border, at the PoE, is somewhat uncertain. My sense is that it is best if she has already made the appeal. But even if she has not yet made the appeal and there is still time to do so, she should be allowed to enter Canada.

After all, she continues to be a PR until either the time for making the appeal has passed with no appeal being made, or for at least as long as the appeal is pending once she makes a timely appeal. And a PR is entitled to enter Canada even if proceedings to terminate status are in process.

Best to have copies of all relevant documents, from CoPR (or other record of landing) to expired PR card (if available), copy of PRTD denial (which will show date), copy of paperwork making the appeal, and so on. Thus, even if the border crossing is a bit of a hassle, ultimately she should be allowed to enter (again, so long as appeal is made or there is still time to make the appeal).

How the appeal will go is a separate story.
 
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algdantes

Star Member
Sep 7, 2016
54
5
dpenabill said:
While I do not disagree with the other posts, it is my sense they miss the point of the query.

I believe you are simply asking whether she will still be allowed to enter Canada at a land-border crossing, knowing and understanding that to preserve her PR status she must timely make the appeal and then win the appeal.

As long as she makes the appeal, she should be allowed to enter Canada without any problem.

What will actually happen at the border, at the PoE, is somewhat uncertain. My sense is that it is best if she has already made the appeal. But even if she has not yet made the appeal and there is still time to do so, she should be allowed to enter Canada.

After all, she continues to be a PR until either the time for making the appeal has passed with no appeal being made, or for at least as long as the appeal is pending once she makes a timely appeal. And a PR is entitled to enter Canada even if proceedings to terminate status are in process.

Best to have copies of all relevant documents, from CoPR (or other record of landing) to expired PR card (if available), copy of PRTD denial (which will show date), copy of paperwork making the appeal, and so on. Thus, even if the border crossing is a bit of a hassle, ultimately she should be allowed to enter (again, so long as appeal is made or there is still time to make the appeal).

How the appeal will go is a separate story.
THANK YOU! That's exactly what I meant. I was wondering if I made the question sound confusing...

Since my mother is technically still considered a PR up until the last day of appeal passes, she would still have the legal right to enter and file her appeal there, right? That's good to know.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,281
3,040
algdantes said:
THANK YOU! That's exactly what I meant. I was wondering if I made the question sound confusing...

Since my mother is technically still considered a PR up until the last day of appeal passes, she would still have the legal right to enter and file her appeal there, right? That's good to know.
Yes. Technically.

What happens in practice, however, is not always according to the technicalities.

Waiting until there is just a week left to make the appeal, and then trying to do this, would invite the risk of things going awry.

Cutting things close, let alone waiting until the last minute, is rarely if ever a good plan. (Disclosure: I have lived my life otherwise, and often paid the cost for doing so, but sure I have, more often, been successful sliding by again and again; I have been very fortunate; but make no mistake, and this is especially true when dealing with large bureaucracies, cutting it close is risky.)

In particular, my sense is that it would be best to file the paperwork to make the appeal before making the trip and attempting the border crossing by private vehicle at a U.S./Canada land crossing. Or, at the least, make the trip as soon as possible with a significant number of days left before the time to appeal has passed.

Note: I do not know what FOSS will show for someone in this situation, between the date the PR TD application is rejected and the date the time to appeal has passed. I am no expert. I doubt you will be able to obtain a definitive or reliable answer about what FOSS will show during this time period. So, as I noted in my previous post, what will actually happen at the PoE is uncertain.

Perhaps the worst case scenario, if the appeal has not been made before arriving at the PoE, is a difficult examination. Make no mistake, however, about just how difficult such an event can be for a lot of people who are not confidently well-informed and highly capable of representing themselves in such situations.

My sense is that if the paperwork for the appeal has been submitted, and she is carrying a copy of that, the risk of difficulty is low, at the least much reduced. Beyond that, the sooner the crossing, and the more confidently and emphatically she can and will represent herself, making the case she is appealing the PR TD rejection, she should be allowed to enter . . . but the closer she is the last day the appeal can be made, the more risk there is the interaction with border officials will not go well. For PRs who are inadmissible because of a breach of the PR RO, the border officials are NOT supposed to push them to surrender PR status, but it appears the border officials often do suggest the PR do so, so that the PR can then be allowed to enter as a visitor, for up to six months. There are some indications the border official's suggestion can be made rather emphatically, forcefully, in a manner implying the PR might not be allowed to enter Canada otherwise. And, ultimately, even if the outcome is she is allowed to enter Canada (as she should be so long as an appeal can be timely pursued), the experience at the PoE can be extremely upsetting for some. Best to avoid as much risk as possible. Get the appeal paperwork filed as soon as practically possible.
 

JWFRAN

Newbie
Dec 19, 2019
1
1
Any update on this? I am in the same situation and want to know how successful OP was with his mother crossing the border even though PRTD was rejected?
 
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