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Counting days with an expired PR

rtee

Member
Sep 20, 2017
13
6
Hi, I have been looking for an answer for this but no luck. Maybe someone can help me with this. My PR has expired while being currently outside of canada and I didn't meet the residency 730 required days to renew. My spouce is canadian and shes willing to say with me outside of canada so I can fillfull the couple of months I am short with so I can apply for travel documents .. will the days my wife is with me count even if my PR card is expired ?
Much appriciated.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,831
20,490
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
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28-06-2010
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05-10-2010
Hi, I have been looking for an answer for this but no luck. Maybe someone can help me with this. My PR has expired while being currently outside of canada and I didn't meet the residency 730 required days to renew. My spouce is canadian and shes willing to say with me outside of canada so I can fillfull the couple of months I am short with so I can apply for travel documents .. will the days my wife is with me count even if my PR card is expired ?
Much appriciated.
Recommend you read through the following thread:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/page-2#post-7201741
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,268
3,028
Hi, I have been looking for an answer for this but no luck. Maybe someone can help me with this. My PR has expired while being currently outside of canada and I didn't meet the residency 730 required days to renew. My spouce is canadian and shes willing to say with me outside of canada so I can fillfull the couple of months I am short with so I can apply for travel documents .. will the days my wife is with me count even if my PR card is expired ?
Much appriciated.
Since it appears your spouse has not been living with you abroad for some time, there could be some question about whether the days you have been together abroad will count. As @scylla observed and linked, there is an extensive discussion about issues related to getting Residency Obligation credit for time together with a Canadian-citizen-spouse. It is a bit complicated.

You might start by reviewing some factors I outlined in the following post (follow link to see full post) in that topic:

In contrast, rather, when there are blatant differences, or otherwise a pattern inconsistent with the couple moving together, or as those few cases suggest, there is clearly an absence of a temporal nexus in their respective travel or moves abroad, CLICK the lights flash: this is not a couple moving abroad together, this is a couple in which one is clearly following or going to the other already abroad, and if it is the citizen-spouse going abroad to the PR, that is NOT the PR accompanying the citizen-spouse.

Which, in conjunction with observations derived from what can be learned in the recent decisions, leads to what, I think, are some fairly safe conclusions in response to the first of the three questions posed above:
" . . . what facts and circumstances are important and will influence (1) whether the who-accompanied-whom question will be closely considered?"

Thus, the facts and circumstances tending to cause a significant risk include:

-- BIG differences in the timing of the move abroad for the PR and citizen-spouse respectively
-- PR has minimal or no history of having settled in Canada or being established in Canada
-- PR history of being abroad well before the citizen-spouse goes abroad, especially where the PR has not personally been settled in Canada
-- facts or circumstances or pattern of travel revealing significant periods of separation, and especially a pattern indicating one is visiting the other more than the couple is actually living together
-- especially long duration of living abroad where there is little indication of any intention to live in Canada let alone actual history of living together IN Canada​

While they are somewhat different, but will often overlap with one or more of the above, my sense is there is also an elevated risk that who-accompanied-whom will be closely considered when:

-- an officer perceives the possibility a citizen-sponsor abroad at the time of the sponsorship application fudged (misrepresented) a plan to relocate to Canada . . . which obviously looms as a possible if not probable question if in fact the couple do not actually relocate and settle in Canada (for at least a relatively substantial amount of time) after the sponsored spouse obtains PR status
-- one of the PRs in a couple who immigrated to Canada together stays in Canada long enough to obtain citizenship, while the other mostly remains abroad, and the one who becomes a citizen then goes to live abroad with the other spouse

In any event, based on the sketchy facts you offer, it appears you may indeed be AT RISK for not getting the credit and thus be in breach of the PR Residency Obligation. So this is an issue you probably want to consider in making decisions going forward. (Reminder: if you are not ready to come and stay in Canada, and your spouse is eligible to sponsor, perhaps best course forward is to surrender PR status and plan to be sponsored for PR when you are ready to come and live in Canada permanently.)

IF, if you have status in the U.S. which will allow you to travel via the U.S., one way to reduce the risks is to avoid applying for a PR Travel Document (appears that visa offices abroad are more likely to be strict in their approach to this issue), and after living together long enough to be WELL WITHIN compliance (counting credit for time together abroad), THEN TRAVEL TOGETHER via the U.S. and if questioned about PR RO compliance be truthful but specifically include days living together abroad. Of course this only makes sense IF you are coming to Canada to STAY for at least long enough to get yourself in compliance without relying on the credit for time abroad with your spouse.


CAVEAT: This assumes that by "Canadian" you mean your spouse is a Canadian citizen. For some reason many overlook the fact that Canadian PRs are legally "Canadians" pursuant to Canadian law (even though for many or most other countries, the individual is not a "Canadian" unless he or she carries a Canadian passport). That is, you only say your spouse is "Canadian," which can mean your spouse is either a citizen OR a PR. But only if your spouse is a citizen is there any possible eligibility for credit for the time she comes and stays abroad with you (there is, for example, a separate exception allowing credit for accompanying a Canadian PR employed abroad by the Canadian government, but there is NO sign anything like that is applicable in your situation).