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Counting Citizenship days

Smile_Canada

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Feb 23, 2015
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I was checking my i-94 report for Day Trips

and i found out that i have few trips like following example

Left Canada on 1-jan-2015 @ 9.00 PM
and came back Canada on 2-Jan-2015 @ 1.00 AM

as per entry i was out for 1 day, but in actual i was away for only 4 hrs.

So I want to know how this entry will be treated?
 

chikloo

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Feb 6, 2014
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Smile_Canada said:
I was checking my i-94 report for Day Trips

and i found out that i have few trips like following example

Left Canada on 1-jan-2015 @ 9.00 PM
and came back Canada on 2-Jan-2015 @ 1.00 AM

as per entry i was out for 1 day, but in actual i was away for only 4 hrs.

So I want to know how this entry will be treated?

It should be counted as 1 day absent. It is not on 4 hrs or 24 hrs absent time. It is based on whether you made the trip on the same day. If you had left at 12.01 AM on 1- Jan 2-015 and return 11.59 PM 1-Jan 2015 it will not be counted as absent even though you have stayed there 23 hrs 58 minutes.
 

screech339

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The moment the clock tick 12am (midnight) at your border entry, you are gone 1 day. It doesn't matter if you were in US for 5 mins or 23 hours 58 mins. It is considered a day absence.

However according to the new 4/6 residence calculator, the day you leave Canada and the day you arrive back in Canada both counts towards citizenship qualification days. So those who had same day trips and those who stayed one night in US will not lose any days towards citizenship qualifications.
 

chikloo

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screech339 said:
The moment the clock tick 12am (midnight) at your border entry, you are gone 1 day. It doesn't matter if you were in US for 5 mins or 23 hours 58 mins. It is considered a day absence.

However according to the new 4/6 residence calculator, the day you leave Canada and the day you arrive back in Canada both counts towards citizenship qualification days. So those who had same day trips and those who stayed one night in US will not lose any days towards citizenship qualifications.
OP has applied in March 2015 under old rule
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Smile_Canada said:
I was checking my i-94 report for Day Trips

and i found out that i have few trips like following example

Left Canada on 1-jan-2015 @ 9.00 PM
and came back Canada on 2-Jan-2015 @ 1.00 AM

as per entry i was out for 1 day, but in actual i was away for only 4 hrs.

So I want to know how this entry will be treated?
Concur with responses above: for a pre-June 11 application, midnights outside Canada are counted as days absent.

As I recall, however, you were a frequent traveller to the U.S. Thus, I am posting to highlight the reference to having a few trips you did not declare (considering them to be day-trips) which involved returning to Canada after midnight. Ouch. Hopefully these do not add up to too many, recognizing:

Smile_Canada said:
. . . applying under old rule with 1103 days of actual physical presence . . .
Not a big margin to work with.

Hopefully you applied with enough of a margin over the 1095 day threshold to cover all those occasions you returned after midnight which were not included as absences in your residency calculation, and otherwise you have good documentation to corroborate your account of time in Canada, employment in Canada, and place of abode in Canada.

The obvious issue, and potentially a problem, is whether or not the number of occasions this happened is such as to compromise your credibility in the view of CIC. Hard to guess, but if there were four or more such occasions (unreported after-midnight returns to Canada), risk of full blown RQ looms.

If indeed the number is few, particularly three or less, and there is no doubt about them being one-day trips (as opposed to returns to Canada for which it might not be clear the exit was the day before), should be no problem . . . CIC tends to be forgiving if mistakes are indeed few and minor.

Nonetheless, probably a good idea to begin the process of gathering documents for a full blown RQ just in case.
 

Smile_Canada

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Feb 23, 2015
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that is what i am worried about now, i never kept track of my day trips. And only declared my vacation for more than 1 days.

Since i-94 is not complete report, i even have no clue how many will be trips like this. but i can recall for sure i have few trips i came late but how much late don't remember cud be few minutes before 12 could be few minutes after 12. But that for sure was not more than couple of hours trip. I have no choice but to wait for complete FOIA report to get full picture

Now this seems to be completely unfair, to go out of country for 2-3 hours and be accounted for complete day of absence.

Also i know FOIA and CBSA report both show time too along with date, so it doesn't seem to be difficult for CIC to determine actual no of hrs person was out of country.
 

screech339

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Smile_Canada said:
Now this seems to be completely unfair, to go out of country for 2-3 hours and be accounted for complete day of absence.
It doesn't matter how many hours you been out of Canada. All that matter is whether you were still outside Canada when the clock strike midnight. Whether it's a couple of hours or 23 hours. Take another perspective. It is unfair that a person leave Canada at 12:01am and come back 11:59pm and count as a day in Canada despite being in US 23 hours 58 mins and spending only 2 mins in Canada.
 

dpenabill

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Smile_Canada said:
that is what i am worried about now, i never kept track of my day trips. And only declared my vacation for more than 1 days.

Since i-94 is not complete report, i even have no clue how many will be trips like this. but i can recall for sure i have few trips i came late but how much late don't remember cud be few minutes before 12 could be few minutes after 12. But that for sure was not more than couple of hours trip. I have no choice but to wait for complete FOIA report to get full picture

Now this seems to be completely unfair, to go out of country for 2-3 hours and be accounted for complete day of absence.

Also i know FOIA and CBSA report both show time too along with date, so it doesn't seem to be difficult for CIC to determine actual no of hrs person was out of country.
Avoid getting bogged down in minute details.

Details reflecting credibility and overall impressions are far, far, far more important.

A few errors, small in scope, should be NO big deal, not a problem; CIC is often far more forgiving of small mistakes than many give CIC credit.

Discrepancies suggesting reason to doubt credibility, however, can loom large.

As I have noted in another topic you started, frequent travel in and of itself tends to at least draw attention.

Avoid justifying explanations: Simple factual explanations are often warranted ("I overlooked a short trip in June 2013" for example). Explanations which essentially present an arguable justification, on the other hand, rarely do any good; most actually tend to be counter-productive.

For example: trying to justify the failure to report day trips based on how short the trip was is not likely to fly. CIC's instructions and FAQs and other information clearly identified that day trips were those trips in which the individual exited and returned to Canada the same day. The more plausible posture is that you simply overlooked occasions on which the return to Canada was after midnight. If the number of these is not too many, odds are good CIC will not be overly concerned. If the number is significant (and in particular, if the number reduces your calculation to 1094 or less days APP), you are likely to get RQ. Other factors will determine the extent to which it is then a residency case and if so, how difficult of a case.

In the meantime, follow the instructions in the request you were given and submit a response on time. If you cannot timely submit a response as requested, submit what you can on time, explain what you do not have and why, and what you are doing to obtain that documentation.

It is probably a good sign you were issued a CIT 0520 rather than a Residence Questionnaire (CIT 0171).

What matters now, though, is the nature and extent of discrepancies which will be identified . . . whether they are few and small enough for CIC to otherwise be satisfied . . . or whether they are of such number or size they lead CIC to make your application a full-blown residency case. And again, credibility is likely to be among the biggest factors in how this goes.

In any event, again, follow the instructions and make a timely submission as best you can, and beyond that probably a good idea to prepare, just in case, for RQ (CIT 0171).
 

afsanaa

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Jun 17, 2012
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Hi
I am Pr in canada since 2013 october. till now i reside in canada 20 months . I need another 28 months to get my passport . According to new law you need to stay in canada 48 months or 1470 days in 6 years and 183 days in each 4 years within this 6 years . Now my question is if i stay less than 6 months in any year will that time counted in 48 months or 1470 days .
 

chikloo

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afsanaa said:
Hi
I am Pr in canada since 2013 october. till now i reside in canada 20 months . I need another 28 months to get my passport . According to new law you need to stay in canada 48 months or 1470 days in 6 years and 183 days in each 4 years within this 6 years . Now my question is if i stay less than 6 months in any year will that time counted in 48 months or 1470 days .
Yes any time spent as PR in the last 6 years can be counted towards 1460 days. But you have to complete atleast 4 years with 183 days or more within that last 6 years. Need not be continuous.
 

Smile_Canada

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Just an FYI for other people in group.

I called CIC today regarding couple of my day trips in which i entered after Midnight. All Trips were of short duration ranging between 2 hours to 6 hours, but only concern was since i enterend in Canada after 12.00 AM and day changes. So will i be counting it as absent for 1 day or count as 0 days.

CIC agent send doen't matter what time u enetred, if u didn't stayed overnight and sleep there, it will be counted as 0 days.
 

Bigudi

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Smile_Canada said:
Just an FYI for other people in group.

I called CIC today regarding couple of my day trips in which i entered after Midnight. All Trips were of short duration ranging between 2 hours to 6 hours, but only concern was since i enterend in Canada after 12.00 AM and day changes. So will i be counting it as absent for 1 day or count as 0 days.

CIC agent send doen't matter what time u enetred, if u didn't stayed overnight and sleep there, it will be counted as 0 days.
Please do not rely on CIC call center agent's information. Specially in such a delicate matter.
 

screech339

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Apr 2, 2013
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Smile_Canada said:
Just an FYI for other people in group.

I called CIC today regarding couple of my day trips in which i entered after Midnight. All Trips were of short duration ranging between 2 hours to 6 hours, but only concern was since i enterend in Canada after 12.00 AM and day changes. So will i be counting it as absent for 1 day or count as 0 days.

CIC agent send doen't matter what time u enetred, if u didn't stayed overnight and sleep there, it will be counted as 0 days.
You count your days as 0 days as you left Canada and re-entered Canada on the same day when you left Canada after midnight and entered Canada on the same day despite you leaving after midnight.
 

sjakub

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Smile_Canada said:
I called CIC today regarding couple of my day trips in which i entered after Midnight. All Trips were of short duration ranging between 2 hours to 6 hours, but only concern was since i enterend in Canada after 12.00 AM and day changes. So will i be counting it as absent for 1 day or count as 0 days.

CIC agent send doen't matter what time u enetred, if u didn't stayed overnight and sleep there, it will be counted as 0 days.
Maybe you didn't understand him or he didn't understand you.

When you leave before midnight and come back after midnight, it counts as one day of absence (according to pre-june-11 rules).