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CDNPR

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May 11, 2018
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Hi! My husbands PR card is up for renewal in August 2018. He has only spent 427 days in Canada out of the 730 to meet the residency requirement. He resides in the UK. It was a struggle for me to get his sponsorship in the first place and I really don't want to lose it :(
Am I right that we can use days which I was with him in the UK or on vacation together?
If so, do we have to have travelled together?
Most of the time I was meeting up with him in the UK. We spent 6 months together in Sri Lanka due to a family emergency but he travelled there from the UK and I from Canada, could we count this time?
I checked both CIC and he ENF 23 guidelines, but they do not specify.
If we are able to use the days I travelled to stay with him in the UK I believe we can meet the requirement. Any advice or experience would be greatly appreciated!
 
You don't say what your status is.

If you are a Canadian citizen, then any time he spent with you outside Canada counts towards the residency obligation. If you are only PR, then this doesn't apply.
 
Hi! My husbands PR card is up for renewal in August 2018. He has only spent 427 days in Canada out of the 730 to meet the residency requirement. He resides in the UK. It was a struggle for me to get his sponsorship in the first place and I really don't want to lose it :(
Am I right that we can use days which I was with him in the UK or on vacation together?
If so, do we have to have travelled together?
Most of the time I was meeting up with him in the UK. We spent 6 months together in Sri Lanka due to a family emergency but he travelled there from the UK and I from Canada, could we count this time?
I checked both CIC and he ENF 23 guidelines, but they do not specify.
If we are able to use the days I travelled to stay with him in the UK I believe we can meet the requirement. Any advice or experience would be greatly appreciated!

There is a credit toward PR Residency Obligation compliance for days abroad "accompanying" a Canadian citizen spouse.

While this credit is liberally allowed, so far as we can discern, it does NOT necessarily mean that all days together abroad will count. So I disagree some with this:
If you are a Canadian citizen, then any time he spent with you outside Canada counts towards the residency obligation.

That is, yes, generally time together with a Canadian citizen spouse is allowed credit toward the PR Residency Obligation, BUT NOT necessarily "any time" together.

The primary factor considered by IRCC, to determine if the credit is allowed, is whether the couple is living together abroad. There is a substantial risk, perhaps a high risk, that the credit will NOT be given for periods of time during which the Canadian citizen spouse was visiting the PR abroad.

A longer period of cohabitation together abroad, possibly the period of many months spent together in Sri Lanka, has a better chance of counting. While the fact of traveling separately, from different places, may be an issue, IRCC does not generally examine who followed whom, that is, whether the PR accompanied the Citizen or the Citizen accompanied the PR, SO LONG AS THE COUPLE IS COHABITING, that is, living together during that period of time. But six months additional credit does not seem to be enough to meet the PR RO.

As long as the PR has a valid PR card and is traveling with the Canadian citizen spouse upon arrival in Canada, there should be a good chance the PR is not challenged about compliance with the PR RO. And, if the PR returns to Canada, in this way, and then stays in Canada long enough to meet the PR RO based on actual presence in Canada, that should save the PR's status in Canada.

This also applies even if the PR no longer has a valid PR card but can travel to Canada, such as traveling via the U.S. The risk of being reported at the PoE is higher, but if the PR is traveling with the Canadian citizen spouse there should still be a decent chance of being allowed into Canada without being reported.

Moreover, in this scenario, in which the PR has returned to Canada with the Citizen spouse, and is staying in Canada, the odds are probably good at least the six months spent living together abroad will be given credit in a subsequent PR RO determination by IRCC arising from an application for a new PR card. (Still need to wait to apply for new PR card after PR has enough days, within the five years preceding the date the application is made, but it would probably be OK to count the six months together in Sri Lanka in that calculation.)

Even if the PR is reported upon returning to Canada, if the PR appeals and STAYS in Canada pending the appeal, there is probably (emphasis on "probably" since it is hard to know these things confidently, and impossible to know for sure) a good chance of saving PR status -- based on over 400 days of actual presence plus claim for time together abroad, plus clear and honest explanation for why the PR had to remain abroad so long (even if the reason is not a strong H&C factor in itself, such as needed to continue employment abroad), in conjunction with having finally settled in Canada to stay with Canadian citizen spouse.

That is, the sooner the PR returns to Canada to stay, the better the PR's chances are that PR status can be saved.

In the meantime, the more frequent the PR has traveled to Canada, and the longer the stays in Canada, and the more recent those are, are all positive factors which can improve the PR's chances of not being referred to Secondary upon arrival at a PoE, and improve the PR's chances of NOT being reported even if referred to and examined by Secondary at the PoE. Again, especially if traveling together with the Canadian citizen spouse.

Regarding PR TD: If the PR needs to apply for a PR Travel Document, that pushes the odds in a negative direction, probably by quite a lot. Indeed, a PR TD application would be very risky and the odds of winning an appeal are not good.

Otherwise: If the PR is not in a position to sometime quite soon return to Canada to stay and live in Canada, and the Canadian citizen is not in a position to live abroad for two years with the PR, the odds are that PR status will be lost. This would NOT hurt the citizen spouse's chances of sponsoring the PR again, so long as there continues to be a genuine marital relationship (and for this, the visits are important) and the Canadian meets the qualifications for sponsorship. And, actually, the odds probably favour an easier sponsorship path the second time around . . . again, however, so long as there is a genuine marital relationship, which at the very least means neither spouse is in a marital like relationship with anyone else.
 
I just flew from San Fransico to Toronto. PR card scanned by machine. No problem. And because there was a long line, the CBSA offcer just let many people go without asking anything. But theorically, if the machine will read PR card and calculate with CBSA record, I will be picked out for RO issue. But I was living in the States with my Canadian family thus RO meets. I doubt the machine will do calculate automatically; or the machine only report a black list of names or leaving Canada for more than 3 years.
 
There is a credit toward PR Residency Obligation compliance for days abroad "accompanying" a Canadian citizen spouse.

While this credit is liberally allowed, so far as we can discern, it does NOT necessarily mean that all days together abroad will count. So I disagree some with this:


That is, yes, generally time together with a Canadian citizen spouse is allowed credit toward the PR Residency Obligation, BUT NOT necessarily "any time" together.

The primary factor considered by IRCC, to determine if the credit is allowed, is whether the couple is living together abroad. There is a substantial risk, perhaps a high risk, that the credit will NOT be given for periods of time during which the Canadian citizen spouse was visiting the PR abroad.

A longer period of cohabitation together abroad, possibly the period of many months spent together in Sri Lanka, has a better chance of counting. While the fact of traveling separately, from different places, may be an issue, IRCC does not generally examine who followed whom, that is, whether the PR accompanied the Citizen or the Citizen accompanied the PR, SO LONG AS THE COUPLE IS COHABITING, that is, living together during that period of time. But six months additional credit does not seem to be enough to meet the PR RO.

As long as the PR has a valid PR card and is traveling with the Canadian citizen spouse upon arrival in Canada, there should be a good chance the PR is not challenged about compliance with the PR RO. And, if the PR returns to Canada, in this way, and then stays in Canada long enough to meet the PR RO based on actual presence in Canada, that should save the PR's status in Canada.

This also applies even if the PR no longer has a valid PR card but can travel to Canada, such as traveling via the U.S. The risk of being reported at the PoE is higher, but if the PR is traveling with the Canadian citizen spouse there should still be a decent chance of being allowed into Canada without being reported.

Moreover, in this scenario, in which the PR has returned to Canada with the Citizen spouse, and is staying in Canada, the odds are probably good at least the six months spent living together abroad will be given credit in a subsequent PR RO determination by IRCC arising from an application for a new PR card. (Still need to wait to apply for new PR card after PR has enough days, within the five years preceding the date the application is made, but it would probably be OK to count the six months together in Sri Lanka in that calculation.)

Even if the PR is reported upon returning to Canada, if the PR appeals and STAYS in Canada pending the appeal, there is probably (emphasis on "probably" since it is hard to know these things confidently, and impossible to know for sure) a good chance of saving PR status -- based on over 400 days of actual presence plus claim for time together abroad, plus clear and honest explanation for why the PR had to remain abroad so long (even if the reason is not a strong H&C factor in itself, such as needed to continue employment abroad), in conjunction with having finally settled in Canada to stay with Canadian citizen spouse.

That is, the sooner the PR returns to Canada to stay, the better the PR's chances are that PR status can be saved.

In the meantime, the more frequent the PR has traveled to Canada, and the longer the stays in Canada, and the more recent those are, are all positive factors which can improve the PR's chances of not being referred to Secondary upon arrival at a PoE, and improve the PR's chances of NOT being reported even if referred to and examined by Secondary at the PoE. Again, especially if traveling together with the Canadian citizen spouse.

Regarding PR TD: If the PR needs to apply for a PR Travel Document, that pushes the odds in a negative direction, probably by quite a lot. Indeed, a PR TD application would be very risky and the odds of winning an appeal are not good.

Otherwise: If the PR is not in a position to sometime quite soon return to Canada to stay and live in Canada, and the Canadian citizen is not in a position to live abroad for two years with the PR, the odds are that PR status will be lost. This would NOT hurt the citizen spouse's chances of sponsoring the PR again, so long as there continues to be a genuine marital relationship (and for this, the visits are important) and the Canadian meets the qualifications for sponsorship. And, actually, the odds probably favour an easier sponsorship path the second time around . . . again, however, so long as there is a genuine marital relationship, which at the very least means neither spouse is in a marital like relationship with anyone else.
As applicants only submit their own passport, they actually stay in the country the same with their citizen spouse's, that will be fine. They won't be that mean to ask you any details of your accompanying. So, if your spouse is out for years visiting her family, it's OK only if you don't give this info to IRCC. But, indeed, living is living. It's very normal that one of you will leave for a short period to work, study, visit. It's just part of LIFE. Even though you are not together shortly, I still believe it's accompanying. And, for visiting spouse, it's absolutely accompany. They need to see each other, and IRCC dare declare this is not what they want?
 
As applicants only submit their own passport, they actually stay in the country the same with their citizen spouse's, that will be fine. They won't be that mean to ask you any details of your accompanying. So, if your spouse is out for years visiting her family, it's OK only if you don't give this info to IRCC. But, indeed, living is living. It's very normal that one of you will leave for a short period to work, study, visit. It's just part of LIFE. Even though you are not together shortly, I still believe it's accompanying. And, for visiting spouse, it's absolutely accompany. They need to see each other, and IRCC dare declare this is not what they want?
While it would be nice if this is true, I don't think that it is.

The principle behind the "accompanying" exemption is that the PR is "required" to be outside Canada because their citizen spouse is, and thus they need to be "together" in order to satisfy the spirit of that principle. This comes back to the who is accompanied by whom, and why. There is at least one case on CANLII that touches on this and used it as part of the judgement.. It's a shame that this wasn't more clearly codified into the legislation.
 
More than most want to know or need to know:


As applicants only submit their own passport, they actually stay in the country the same with their citizen spouse's, that will be fine. They won't be that mean to ask you any details of your accompanying. So, if your spouse is out for years visiting her family, it's OK only if you don't give this info to IRCC. But, indeed, living is living. It's very normal that one of you will leave for a short period to work, study, visit. It's just part of LIFE. Even though you are not together shortly, I still believe it's accompanying. And, for visiting spouse, it's absolutely accompany. They need to see each other, and IRCC dare declare this is not what they want?

Credit For Time Abroad Accompanying Canadian Citizen Spouse (for PR card renewal or PR TD):

Regarding in particular: "As applicants only submit their own passport, they actually stay in the country the same with their citizen spouse's, that will be fine. They won't be that mean to ask you any details of your accompanying."

When making an application for either a new PR card or for a PR Travel Document, the PR who wants credit for time abroad accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse must affirmatively include additional information and documents to support the claim for this credit. In addition to information detailing dates actually accompanying the spouse, the PR must include:
-- copy of Canadian citizen passport or passports (along with PR's own passport or passports)
-- proof of living together
-- proof of genuine qualified relationship (marriage certificate for example)
-- proof of Canadian citizen's Canadian citizenship

Otherwise, a determination as to compliance with the PR Residency Obligation will be limited to time physically spent present in Canada.



PoE Examinations:

When examined at a PIL at a PoE (whether this is by a PIL officer or going through kiosk), whether the PR is referred for a Secondary examination depends on many factors. PRs with a valid PR card are typically and routinely waived through without further examination UNLESS there is something which triggers questions. These factors, and there are many, have been discussed in depth in many other discussions. Some of these factors make it tempting for some returning PRs to conceal how much time they have been abroad. Misrepresentations of this sort are common. Risks associated with doing this, however, have increased dramatically in the last six to eight years. My observations about navigating these matters assumes NO misrepresentations, by omission or otherwise, which is what I believe works BEST MOST OFTEN (acknowledging more than a few slip by, while recognizing that more than a few do not and suffer worse for it).

The risk of a Secondary referral is less for a PR who is traveling with his or her Canadian citizen spouse when the PIL examination is an in-person transaction, and the risk of being reported generally is less for a PR who is traveling with his or her Canadian citizen spouse in the event of further examination, whether that is an in-person follow-up after using kiosk on entry (which is not necessarily a "Secondary" examination) or is further immigration examination in Secondary.


IN GENERAL, How Things Go, whether at a PoE, for a PR card application, or a PR TD application, varies depending on many factors and how it goes for one PR only indicates how it MIGHT go for another, NOT necessarily how it will likely go, NEVER how it will go for sure, NO MATTER HOW SIMILAR the PR's situations are. Again, there are scores of discussions in this forum addressing the multitude of variables and possible outcomes, as well as potential wrinkles and bumps along the way.



Significance of Marriage to Canadian citizen generally:

On the other hand, make no mistake, being married to a Canadian citizen does not itself get a pass on otherwise being required to comply with the PR Residency Obligation. Many, many PRs married to a Canadian citizen have lost their PR status due to a failure to comply with the PR RO. There are many IAD decisions going against the PR with a family living in Canada, including minor dependent children born in Canada, where the PR did not spent sufficient time physically in Canada to meet the PR RO. And yes, this is something which happens a lot in real life, many PRs unable to find a good enough job in Canada and thus compelled to stay abroad for extended periods of time to earn a sufficient living for them and their family. Not only will IRCC often NOT give much H&C weight to the impact on the family in Canada, including dependent children, if the PR parent loses PR status, this scenario actually weighs against the PR because:
-- history of extended absences tends to show the negative impact on the family will not result in that much of a hardship
-- extent of hardship is also mitigated or offset by the fact that the Canadian citizen spouse can sponsor the PR again IF and WHEN the PR is actually prepared to return to Canada to stay

The actual cases get complicated given the many wrinkles, the many variables in real life scenarios.


Loss of PR status and being sponsored again by Canadian citizen spouse:

Obviously the marital relationship must be genuine for the Canadian citizen spouse to successfully sponsor the former-PR again. Even though the forum has seen very few reports about this process, so we have not seen much about the extent to which IRCC might scrutinize the genuineness of the marital relationship in these cases, the viability of this recourse quite likely depends on some evidence to show the relationship continues, some evidence of ongoing contact, visitations, support going one direction or the other, and so on.

Beyond that, in the few cases of this sort which have been reported in the forum, many appear tempted to do the subsequent sponsorship process too soon. It will be of little or no avail to go through the sponsorship process again if the PR must continue to stay and work abroad for such periods of time the PR RO will again be breached and PR status is again at risk for being lost. BEST to WAIT to do the sponsorship ONLY WHEN the spouse is actually prepared to return to Canada to stay.


OTHERWISE / ALTERNATIVES:

First, I have no more than a few observations to make about the policies underlying the way these rules work. Other than the continuing trend toward more enforcement, stricter enforcement, and more tools for identifying PRs in breach of the PR RO: the PR RO itself, and the accompanying-Canadian-citizen-spouse (or parent) credit, has been consistent for at least nearly two decades. There has been virtually NO hint this aspect of the rules for PRs is likely to change any time in the near future. The only observations about policies related to this I find worth discussing are those about what the policies are so as to help illuminate better how the rules are interpreted and applied.

Otherwise, there are other aspects and even alternatives relevant to these matters. For PRs in breach of the PR RO, for example, as I have already alluded, many attempt to return to Canada in hopes of not getting reported at the PoE, and as I have above referenced, more than a few are tempted to make some misrepresentations at the PoE to facilitate this. My only comment about this is that doing this is RISKY and given changes in the law while Harper was PM the consequences are now potentially more severe, AND generally I honestly believe that NOT making misrepresentations is what works BEST, MOST OFTEN.

For the PR staying (and, say, working) abroad, and in a situation effectively compelling this to continue into the future, who is the spouse of a Canadian citizen, or the spouse of a Canadian PR living in Canada who can and will become a Canadian citizen, the PR could avoid engaging in a transaction with either IRCC or CBSA which would trigger a PR RO compliance determination, thus avoid losing PR status, and wait until there is a time the Canadian citizen spouse can join the PR abroad and live together two plus years . . . and THEN, the PR apply for a PR TD or return to Canada and apply for a PR card. This might NOT work, and perhaps should NOT work. There are cases which suggest this is a situation in which IRCC might or even should consider who accompanied whom. These cases are FEW in number. In most cases, living together abroad is what matters and suffices. So it seems there is a good chance it would work.

I mention the latter to illustrate there are indeed various ways to approach the situation in which a PR abroad can use the credit for an accompanying citizen spouse to preserve status. This should not be understood to suggest let alone support this particular approach, or any others that a PR might consider. The key policy underlying Canadian PR rules is that the primary purpose of granting PR status is so the PR can settle and live PERMANENTLY in Canada. And that is what I would encourage PRs to do, to come to Canada to stay as soon as reasonably practical. And that is the best way to keep PR status. Unless and until one becomes a citizen.