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Confused about citizenship process

mastersboy

Star Member
Oct 20, 2014
143
4
Posting this as a new question. Please consider answering each question by their number:

1. I was wondering if you know if for citizenship application, is it possible to get RQ before interview or even before AOR? OR RQ always happens at/after the interview?

2. Are the citizenship test and interview the same thing? Or do they happen together on same day? Are interviews mandatory or only happen for non-routine folks (for e.g. if a significant time was spent outside Canada, worked for a non-Canadian employer, self-employed independent contractor etc.)?

3. Full background:

Sep 2015: Spouse and I both move to Canada for grad school
Sep 2017: Both get PGWP
May 2018: Both get PR
June 2018: Spouse leaves for U.S. works and lives in U.S. for ~8 months
Feb 2019: Spouse comes back to Canada, starts full-time Canadian job
Feb 2021: Spouse considering either contract job or U.S. job that lets them work remotely

Please note that during all this time I have lived and worked in Canada with full-time jobs and no gaps in employment. We are looking to apply for citizenship in August, (I will have tonnes of days, my wife will have ~1195 residency days) and wondering that:

From perspective of avoiding/minimizing chance of RQ
- when working for a U.S. employer from Canada completely remotely, is it advised to work as independent contractor or regular U.S. employee but working remotely from Canada? My spouse had already worked for a Canadian job for ~2 years during her eligibility period for citizenship. We are looking to decide between one of the two U.S. jobs now - contract based or regular U.S. job but working remotely. Wondering which one will reduce chance of RQ the most.

4. Should we apply together? The fact that I was here during all that time, should help my spouse's application even though they have lesser residency days?

@dpenabill @torontosm @Ponga @masood8 @mpsqra @Alurra71 @scylla @caipsnotes @steaky @JHT @canuck78 @armoured @harirajmohan - inviting you to please advise.
 
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Lex2019

Hero Member
Jan 21, 2019
423
369
Posting this as a new question. Please consider answering each question by their number:

1. I was wondering if you know if for citizenship application, is it possible to get RQ before interview or even before AOR? OR RQ always happens at/after the interview?

2. Are the citizenship test and interview the same thing? Or do they happen together on same day? Are interviews mandatory or only happen for non-routine folks (for e.g. if a significant time was spent outside Canada, worked for a non-Canadian employer, self-employed independent contractor etc.)?

3. Full background:

Sep 2015: Spouse and I both move to Canada for grad school
Sep 2017: Both get PGWP
May 2018: Both get PR
June 2018: Spouse leaves for U.S. works and lives in U.S. for ~8 months
Feb 2019: Spouse comes back to Canada, starts full-time Canadian job
Feb 2021: Spouse considering either contract job or U.S. job that lets them work remotely

Please note that during all this time I have lived and worked in Canada with full-time jobs and no gaps in employment. We are looking to apply for citizenship in August, (I will have tonnes of days, my wife will have ~1195 residency days) and wondering that:

From perspective of avoiding/minimizing chance of RQ
- when working for a U.S. employer from Canada completely remotely, is it advised to work as independent contractor or regular U.S. employee but working remotely from Canada? My spouse had already worked for a Canadian job for ~2 years during her eligibility period for citizenship. We are looking to decide between one of the two U.S. jobs now - contract based or regular U.S. job but working remotely. Wondering which one will reduce chance of RQ the most.

4. Should we apply together? The fact that I was here during all that time, should help my spouse's application even though they have lesser residency days?

@dpenabill @torontosm @Ponga @masood8 @mpsqra @Alurra71 @scylla @caipsnotes @steaky @JHT @canuck78 @armoured @harirajmohan - inviting you to please advise.
1. I was wondering if you know if for citizenship application, is it possible to get RQ before interview or even before AOR? OR RQ always happens at/after the interview?
At any time after AOR. AOR itself is just an acknowledgment that they have received all docs, all signatures are in place after which the file is assigned to a local IRCC office.

2. Are the citizenship test and interview the same thing? Or do they happen together on same day? Are interviews mandatory or only happen for non-routine folks (for e.g. if a significant time was spent outside Canada, worked for a non-Canadian employer, self-employed independent contractor etc.)?
No. Tests and Interviews are separate. Used to be done on the same day in pre-COVID times. According to some replies here some folks skipped the interview stage, but my bet is that on any more or less out of the ordinary cases they would invite for an interview and request all supporting docs (leases, medical records etc.) prior or after the interview.

3. I would seek advice from someone who's been there done that (only informally) at the very least or a professional. No comments here from me in order not to disillusion you into something I believe should be rather than something that is IRCC reality.

4. Really depends on 3, but if there's a good chance of a RQ for your spouse and you need Cship really hard then I'd apply separately. Otherwise, it is your call. You'll get it maybe later rather than sooner. If (and I assume you've done all math on days right) your spouse has full 1095 days according to the calculation rules then it doesn't sound like a huge problem to me at least. I was out of country for over 2 years after a soft landing with lots of travel after coming for good. So far this didn't trigger any Q's (knock on wood). But I made sure I have the days and a bit more just in case.

P.S. I wouldn't rely on opinions on this website regardless of who says what. You will never be able to point back at a piece of advice you received on a (any) forum. I'd seek professional advice instead.
 
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JHT

Star Member
Sep 4, 2020
82
26
I wish I could add something useful,

But I also have similar questions as I’m in a similar situation, and I have retained a lawyer as I will be applying soon.

Not sure if those questions can be answered by that person, as it’s mostly upto IRCC, and I haven’t really noticed any clear pattern with processing yet, seems to be random.

What I found consistent with your experience so far is that I didn’t have any exit records , only entries.

Even though I went by car to the usa from canada quite often.

If you feel both are able to work remotely in canada , without needing to be absent from canada For long periods , then maybe your wife could wait a little longer to apply with a bigger buffer?


If you there canadian income taxes applicable to you, that might help prove your presence.

I’ll let you know if I get any helpful info.
 
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mastersboy

Star Member
Oct 20, 2014
143
4
If you feel both are able to work remotely in canada , without needing to be absent from canada For long periods , then maybe your wife could wait a little longer to apply with a bigger buffer?
We will consider that. Thanks!

If you there canadian income taxes applicable to you, that might help prove your presence.
I did not understand what you mean by above. Can you please explain?
 

JHT

Star Member
Sep 4, 2020
82
26
We will consider that. Thanks!


I did not understand what you mean by above. Can you please explain?
Oops ,

Meant to say that if you are required to file taxes in Canada, I guess that might help prove your physical presence in Canada.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,267
3,028
Posting this as a new question.
Except they are not new. And you have been active in previous discussions which have, in most respects, addressed these questions . . . both to the extent that they can be answered and to the extent of recognizing that which is beyond the scope of a forum like this, the latter largely being about what should be discussed with a properly authorized professional. This warrants a reminder: for personal advice based on actual facts in an individual case, see a reputable immigration lawyer experienced in citizenship cases. (As discussed with YOU before, maybe this is not all that easy to do, but that is the way to obtain personal advice; and, for sure, that is NOT here.)

Otherwise, ACTUAL PROCESSING PRACTICES CONTINUE TO BE IN FLUX. In case you missed the news, there's a global pandemic and Canada is currently still dealing with a major, lethal wave of Covid-19 (in our local region we have incurred more new cases in the last seven days than we had in total for the first seven months, from all of last March through September). Things are NOT normal, not for anyone going through the process.

This, for example, has a big impact on who, how, when, and what actually happens, relative to testing and interviewing PRs applying for a grant of Citizenship. But this is TEMPORARY. These are accommodating practices.

Sure, the current, temporary, accommodating practices, may cause some confusion, at least in terms of how long it will take, who will get to the next step sooner, why this or that applicant does not progress to the next step as soon as someone else, and even as to precisely what the processing involves. THIS WILL PASS.

The good news for any applicant encountering these accommodating practices is that means they are being actively processed, progressing through the procedures sooner than those bogged down in delays. Conventional wisdom: run with it (assuming becoming a citizen is a personal priority), take advantage of the opportunity -- like making whatever arrangements might be necessary to handle, if offered, doing a virtual test or virtual oath. Otherwise the wait could be, well, long enough to replace confusion with consternation.

For someone anticipating applying in late summer this year, say August or so . . . the application is NOT likely to get into real processing stages until sometime in 2022. By then we better be past the majority of accommodations made because of Covid-19, and frankly, if for whatever reason we are not, it will likely be a long while past then that real processing proceeds, with a likelihood there are other concerns looming.


1. I was wondering if you know if for citizenship application, is it possible to get RQ before interview or even before AOR? OR RQ always happens at/after the interview?
The response by @Lex2019 covers it. It is possible to get RQ any time AFTER AOR, and right up to the morning of the day the oath is scheduled.

Reported recent practices BEFORE Covid-19 indicated that MOST RQ was being issued FOLLOWING the test/interview event, and that most of this involved requests using CIT 0521, known as RQ-lite, a limited version of RQ. But this is something that has varied over time. Between 2012 and 2015, for example, the vast majority of RQ was issued BEFORE the test and interview.

To be clear, however, how it goes for an individual applicant depends on the individual case. This is NOT a game of chance. Probabilities reveal little about how it is likely to go for any particular individual.

Leading to . . .

2. Are the citizenship test and interview the same thing? Or do they happen together on same day? Are interviews mandatory or only happen for non-routine folks (for e.g. if a significant time was spent outside Canada, worked for a non-Canadian employer, self-employed independent contractor etc.)?
Are the citizenship test and interview the same thing?

No. But, any and all interaction with IRCC personnel attendant taking the test is, in effect, part of being interviewed.

Otherwise, this is an aspect of current during-the-pandemic processing regarding which it is difficult to extrapolate much from the anecdotal reporting. Leading to . . .

Or do they happen together on same day? Are interviews mandatory or only happen for non-routine folks (for e.g. if a significant time was spent outside Canada, worked for a non-Canadian employer, self-employed independent contractor etc.)?

As noted, how IRCC is CURRENTLY going about its mandate, what is technically and actually "mandatory," to verify individual applicants meet all the eligibility requirements, involves modified practices, TEMPORARY accommodations. So who is interviewed, let alone how or when, is not clear . . . TEMPORARILY. I have not made a concerted effort to sort out let alone analyze current practices in this regard. For one thing, they appear to be in flux and subject to short-term modification. And probably vary some among local offices. This will pass.

GENERALLY, apart from what has been implemented attendant Covid-19 accommodations, yes, ALL citizenship applicants are interviewed. And this was almost (but not quite) always attendant a test-event. Thus, for example, for someone test-exempt (like I was, well past the age cutoff even those many years ago when I went through the process), they would be scheduled to come in for an interview during an event in which other applicants were taking the test. The typical, "routine" interview one might say, was mostly focused on the applicant presenting original documents, like passports, and being asked a few perfunctory questions largely aimed at determining if what was in the file was sufficient or whether further inquiry was needed. The interview is also intended to screen the applicant's ability to converse in an official language; note that submission of proof of language ability with the application only meets the threshold requirement for making a complete application, and applicants not otherwise language and test exempt are also *tested* for language competency during the "interview."

My GUESS is that for now IRCC is mostly proceeding with what might be called the easy cases. Setting aside, for now, any not-so-easy case. Which is to say that I doubt current practices, for virtual (or "online") testing, will become the norm. So, the extent to which there is an "interview" attendant the online testing, or even subsequently, is NOT likely to reflect much about how it will go for most applicants, at least not long-term.


3. Full background:
. . . I have lived and worked in Canada with full-time jobs and no gaps in employment. We are looking to apply for citizenship in August, (I will have tonnes of days, my wife will have ~1195 residency days) and wondering. . .

From perspective of avoiding/minimizing chance of RQ - when working for a U.S. employer from Canada completely remotely, is it advised to . . .
There is NO way to guarantee not getting RQ'd.

These days, so few are RQ'd, it would be foolish to make real world decisions based on how it might affect the risk of being RQ'd (other than the obvious . . . like waiting longer to apply with a good margin over the minimum, or waiting longer to make a move abroad in order to fully meet the presence requirement with a good margin . . . and so on).

Among factors to consider in deciding what employment to take, the possible influence as to the risk of RQ is almost certainly of minimal significance. There are many more pressing considerations in making career choices than how it might (emphasis on *might*) affect the RISK of RQ.

Obviously, someone seeking Canadian citizenship will avoid career choices that would result in not meeting the requirements. Beyond that, factors other than the risk of RQ will almost certainly be far more important.


4. Should we apply together? The fact that I was here during all that time, should help my spouse's application even though they have lesser residency days?
This is a very personal choice. The vast majority will likely prefer to navigate the process together and look forward to an oath ceremony together.

If IRCC has cause to question one applicant, of course that can lead to non-routine processing which will affect the processing timeline for both applicants if they applied together. However, unless there is an overt, strong reason likely to trigger significant non-routine processing for one applicant, general risk factors are too vague and uncertain to let that have much influence in whether you proceed separately or together.
 

mastersboy

Star Member
Oct 20, 2014
143
4

myscanada

Star Member
Sep 7, 2018
125
39
It has always been 730 days in the past 5 years, as far i know