Canadian marrying Jamaican - complicated and need advice.

[dawlex]

Hi, just found this board a few days ago and have been reading lots but still have questions and looking for any advice, suggestions etc. Here's my story... (sorry if it's long)

I am a 45y/o Canadian, my fiance is a 38y/o Jamaican and we are both currently living in Ontario. We met in 2004 while he was on the farm labour program and working in Canada for 8 months of the year. We saw each other all of 2004 and 2005 but for the 2006 season, the farm he worked on downsized and they did not call him back to work ... so I visited him in Jamaica (and ran up huge phone bills afterwards) but continued the relationship in hopes he would get called back the next year... During that time, we had started talking about getting married so we could be together but the problem was that when he was 19y/o he married a girl in Jamaica - it didn't work out and they separated within the year and never bothered to get legally divorced. He filed for his divorce in Jamaica in late 2006 and it finally finalized in Oct 2011 (yes, 2011! not a typo..the lawyer he hired in Jamaica got into some sort of trouble and all his cases were frozen and he went MIA.. big headache but alas it's done) - we have documentation to prove this btw..

While he was in Jamaica, we broke up for about a year in 2008 (the stress of the neverending divorce mess, the long distance, expenses piling up, and mostly just being with someone you couldn't be with etc just became too much for me to deal with) but we started talking again in 2009. In 2010, by chance he was called back to work on the farm labour program and we started seeing each other again.. this time... while he was here in Canada, we decided that we would get married and hired a new lawyer in Jamaica and again started straightening out the mess that his divorce had become before they shipped him back home again. When he got notified that his job was finishing.. the new lawyer was telling us it would only be another "2 weeks" before his divorce would be final... so he left the farm and came to live with me before they could send him home. We assumed we could be soon married and file for spousal sponsorship and get him into somewhat legal status before his visa expired.. but the "2 weeks" turned into almost another year before it finalized and we got the final decree in our hands from the Jamaican courts (Oct 2011).

However, since that time, his work visa has expired (nov 2010), and now so has his passport (feb 2012).

We then discovered that since he was divorced outside of Canada, in order for us to even apply for a marriage license, we had to hire a lawyer in Ontario to verify his divorce was legal in Canada and then send in documentation to Ontario govt to obtain 'authorization to apply for a marriage license' - pretty standard procedure apparently. We have done this step and are hoping to get the authorization back soon and be married by the end of sept or early oct 2012 and then immediately afterwards, I will file for spousal sponsorship for him.

Even though we know he is not supposed to, he has been able to find seasonal, but fairly steady cash work off and on to help with the costs of things, but I have been the main financial support for us so we haven't been able to save as much and move on this as quick as we had hoped.
We have now saved up enough $$ to get married and pay for all the sponsorship fees/application/medical expenses that we will need for the sponsorship application and are excited to finally start the process.

Sooooo... since I found this wonderful and very helpful active forum, I have been reading other ppls stories and learning a lot about what to expect, but I have not found any story similar to mine.. so I am now questioning whether we are going about this the best way and trying to get as much info as I can beforehand to avoid any more unneccessary complications.

Some of my questions are:

1. Should we use the inbound or outbound application (he is here in canada, but illegal status - visa and passport both expired now - we would both REALLY prefer that he stay in Canada though during the entire process even if it takes longer)
2. How much trouble are we in because he overstayed his visa? - we honestly did not expect all the complications from his divorce taking so long ... we are worried about this. How is immigration going to feel about the length of time he has been 'illegal' before we married and started the process?
3. What are the chances will they deport him and send him back to Jamaica while our application is being processed?
4. Suggestions on the best way to fix his illegal status after we are married ? Is him being married to a Canadian with the spousal sponsorship papers filed good enough? Can we apply for a visitor visa or something similar while the sponsorship application is being processed to ensure he is not sent home? Also, does anyone know if we can renew his Jamaican passport from Canada even? He can't even leave on his own right now because his passport has expired.. I've read being deported REALLY complicates things... we really need to fix this.
5. Is there anything else we need to be doing to better prepare for this long road ahead of us?

Those are the main questions I have off the top of my head .. but I know there are lots more... we welcome any comments or suggestions from those who have been thru this process because we are going into this blind and just hoping that we can be honest and explain why and what we have been thru to get to this point .. not so sure that will be 'ok' and sit well with immigration tho... following the CIC website instructions is more laid out for those with legal status so I am here looking for answers and advice.

Any help, or advice TRULY and greatly appreciated and Congrats to those who have successfully been thru the process.

 

[Jamgirl]

Come join us in the Kingston forum and we can all try and answer your questions

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/kingstonjamaica-t29680.20085.html

 

[Jamgirl]

I really don't know all the answers to your questions because the overstay affects everything... I really don't want to misinform you either...

I hope that a more senior member can help you.

 

[dawlex]

@JamGirl... k.. on my way over to the kingston thread.. thanks for the invite.. guess i will re-post my message over there.

 

[Jamgirl]

your welcome! and please do!

 

[LeisaP]

1. Should we use the inbound or outbound application (he is here in canada, but illegal status - visa and passport both expired now - we would both REALLY prefer that he stay in Canada though during the entire process even if it takes longer)
2. How much trouble are we in because he overstayed his visa? - we honestly did not expect all the complications from his divorce taking so long ... we are worried about this. How is immigration going to feel about the length of time he has been 'illegal' before we married and started the process?
3. What are the chances will they deport him and send him back to Jamaica while our application is being processed?
4. Suggestions on the best way to fix his illegal status after we are married ? Is him being married to a Canadian with the spousal sponsorship papers filed good enough? Can we apply for a visitor visa or something similar while the sponsorship application is being processed to ensure he is not sent home? Also, does anyone know if we can renew his Jamaican passport from Canada even? He can't even leave on his own right now because his passport has expired.. I've read being deported REALLY complicates things... we really need to fix this.
5. Is there anything else we need to be doing to better prepare for this long road ahead of us?

Those are the main questions I have off the top of my head .. but I know there are lots more... we welcome any comments or suggestions from those who have been thru this process because we are going into this blind and just hoping that we can be honest and explain why and what we have been thru to get to this point .. not so sure that will be 'ok' and sit well with immigration tho... following the CIC website instructions is more laid out for those with legal status so I am here looking for answers and advice.

Any help, or advice TRULY and greatly appreciated and Congrats to those who have successfully been thru the process.

1) you can apply outland its faster and still stay in canada, only problem is if he needs a interview, he will need to go to jamaica and than he will not be able to return untill the application is approved. also have you tried going to the jamaican embassy in canada to renew his passport? i have some illegal friends from mexico and 2 of them have been able to get new passports because they lost theirs. just a thought he can try to do that.

2) even though he is illegal, they will look into your evidence closely, but you will still be able to sponsor him, I also have another friend that is illegal and got married to a canadian girl, now they are doing their process outland, but from inside canada. im not 100% sure but i think when step 1 is approved the illegal person becomes implied status and can stay in canada but not work or study while they wait the processs. if they get caught illegally before step 1 approval they will have to leave canada.

what city are you in? if you dont mind me asking.

3) same as 2, after step 1 is approved, he should be fine, but before he may be deported. if he gets deported during this time, he will most likely have to pay a $400 fee to come back to canada even once the application is finalized.

 

[Isometry]

1) you can apply outland its faster and still stay in canada, only problem is if he needs a interview, he will need to go to jamaica and than he will not be able to return untill the application is approved. also have you tried going to the jamaican embassy in canada to renew his passport? i have some illegal friends from mexico and 2 of them have been able to get new passports because they lost theirs. just a thought he can try to do that.

If you apply inland, and then he has to leave Canada and can't get back in (for example, if he gets deported, or even if he leaves on his own and can't get a visa to get back in) then that's the end of your application. I'd personally do outland, even though he'd have to leave Canada to go to the interview, just because I'd be super paranoid about that happening and then getting denied.

 

[CharlieD10]

Hi Dawlex. I was trying to post an answer for you over on the KG thread, but I thought I'd post it here instead. I completely lost my train of thought, so I am writing these as I remember them, not necessarily addressing your individual questions.

1) Your husband's passport can be renewed without him leaving Canada. He needs to get it to the nearest Jamaican consulate for transportation to the Passport Immigration and Citizenship Agency (PICA). Here is a link to the form: http://www.pica.gov.jm/PICA/media/Application-Forms/Passport/Jamaica-Passport-Application-Compressed.pdf?ext=.pdf and here is a link for the fees structure: http://www.pica.gov.jm/Service-Prices/Passport.aspx. Please note that transportation via the consulate is the ONLY legal way to move a Jamaican passport internationally. The consulate will advise him of any fees he should pay to them for their services, last time I checked it was about $50 US, or something in that region.

2) As was said before, while he can apply Inland without legal status, the problem with that is if he is reported and deported, that application is lost for good. I would go with Outland and then if he must attend an interview, he can always come back to Jamaica to attend the interview, however that is your choice.

3) The overstay will be weighed against him, yes, but it is not fatal to his application for spousal PR. The important thing is to establish that you have a genuine relationship and that the PR application is not another attempt to remain in Canada at any cost. Gather every piece of information you have supporting the genesis and development of your relationship. Make sure you have a solid support for the bona fides of your relationship.

4) You can't apply for a TRV within Canada. It has to be assessed at a visa office. You can't apply for a restoration of his status either, because he has been out of status for more than 90 days. A voluntary return to Jamaica should be seriously considered as an option, it is a HUGE headache to be given permission to return to Canada once you have been deported.

5) The chances are always 50/50 he could be deported. Once you file that Inland application, it will be obvious to CBSA that he has over-stayed and is in the country illegally. Whether they decide to pursue it is another matter.

I hope this information is useful. Please stick and stay with us over at the KG thread, and consider yourself welcome and among persons familiar with the "joys" of being in international relationships!

 

[dawlex]

ty Leisa .... sorry if this is a dumb question.. but u said if we go with the Outland application and he needs an interview that he would have to go to Jamaica. (why is that?) are the outland applications processed IN Jamaica and that is where the interview would take place also? I thought I read somewhere inland apps were processed in vegreville (sp?) and outland apps processed in mississauga... so im confused about why he would have to go to JA for an interview.

and no, we have not contacted the JA embassy in Canada regarding his passport... (good idea tho!) we are both too afraid to contact anyone about anything right now for fear of him being deported... we have been just trying to lay low until the divorce mess was resolved (which it is) and until after we are married (which is soon)..then file for sponsorship and be honest with them and try and explain why it happened and hope they understand. OMG you should've seen how paranoid i was even mailing out the marriage license application with our real address on it .. lol. btw.. we are about 1.5hrs from GTA..

 

[CharlieD10]

Excellent. There is a Jamaican consulate office in Toronto! Contact them and find out how much for sending the passport to PICA. They were very helpful when my husband contacted them about something else, so I am hoping they will be to you as well.

 

[LeisaP]

ty Leisa .... sorry if this is a dumb question.. but u said if we go with the Outland application and he needs an interview that he would have to go to Jamaica. (why is that?) are the outland applications processed IN Jamaica and that is where the interview would take place also? I thought I read somewhere inland apps were processed in vegreville (sp?) and outland apps processed in mississauga... so im confused about why he would have to go to JA for an interview.

and no, we have not contacted the JA embassy in Canada regarding his passport... (good idea tho!) we are both too afraid to contact anyone about anything right now for fear of him being deported... we have been just trying to lay low until the divorce mess was resolved (which it is) and until after we are married (which is soon)..then file for sponsorship and be honest with them and try and explain why it happened and hope they understand. OMG you should've seen how paranoid i was even mailing out the marriage license application with our real address on it .. lol. btw.. we are about 1.5hrs from GTA..

Yes for him, because he is jamaican his outland will be processed in jamaica so he would need to attend the interview there, no exceptions.
also yes that is true, inland is in vegerville.

and outland has 2 steps also, step 1 is processed in missisauga, once it is approved, the application is transfered to the visa office for the applicant, in your case jamaica.

yes go to the jamaican embassy they will help you, and no they will not ask for legal status or anything, they will just deal strictly with the passport.
I know how you feel we have alot of illegal friends who are trying to lay low, or some are getting sponsored through work and got married, but its such a headache always being on the look out, i see it in them all the time. !

o okay! darn, im from vancouver, but unfortunatly i dont know any good immigration consultants in GTA that would be able to help you.
but you can always go to an immigration consultant (not a lawyer) in the GTA and get a free consultation, they can help you with all your options and how you can get your husband legal and they wont go against you because he is illegal!! so dont worry about that

 

[dawlex]

1) Your husband's passport can be renewed without him leaving Canada. He needs to get it to the nearest Jamaican consulate for transportation to the Passport Immigration and Citizenship Agency (PICA). Here is a link to the form: and here is a link for the fees structure:. Please note that transportation via the consulate is the ONLY legal way to move a Jamaican passport internationally. The consulate will advise him of any fees he should pay to them for their services, last time I checked it was about $50 US, or something in that region.

2) As was said before, while he can apply Inland without legal status, the problem with that is if he is reported and deported, that application is lost for good. I would go with Outland and then if he must attend an interview, he can always come back to Jamaica to attend the interview, however that is your choice.

3) The overstay will be weighed against him, yes, but it is not fatal to his application for spousal PR. The important thing is to establish that you have a genuine relationship and that the PR application is not another attempt to remain in Canada at any cost. Gather every piece of information you have supporting the genesis and development of your relationship. Make sure you have a solid support for the bona fides of your relationship.

4) You can't apply for a TRV within Canada. It has to be assessed at a visa office. You can't apply for a restoration of his status either, because he has been out of status for more than 90 days. A voluntary return to Jamaica should be seriously considered as an option, it is a HUGE headache to be given permission to return to Canada once you have been deported.

5) The chances are always 50/50 he could be deported. Once you file that Inland application, it will be obvious to CBSA that he has over-stayed and is in the country illegally. Whether they decide to pursue it is another matter.


[/quote]

Charlie, wow! ... thank you for all that!!

1. Regarding the passport.. this is great info. I tried calling the embassy today, but i keep getting their voicemail and am too chicken to leave them a message to call me back.. but i did find what i needed on their website.. the cost is $141 for an adult passport renewal. I think I read that you have to hand in your old passport tho.. do you think will we need it to show that he entered canada legally or for any other reason.. a new passport wont have any stamps in it to show that if we need it. I thought maybe we could report it lost and that way hang onto the old one in case.. but you need a police report for that and we are not about to call them..lol

We talked a lot about inland vs outland last nite... and are still undecided. i think he still is favouring inland but after reading more, i am starting to lean more towards outland....

Here's what I am gathering... trying to weigh the pros n cons of each ... correct me if i am wrong and pls jump in if i am missing any important points...

Inland App: approx 11mos for part 1, and unknown for part 2 dependent upon supporting documents ...he would stay in Canada (albeit illegal at least until pt1 is complete) and provided immigration doesn't decide to deport him or no one else reports him. If that were to happen, then we lost the privledge to apply inland for good and must start all over with an outland app.. (and if by chance we haven't got his passport renewed yet he'd not be able to leave voluntarily and likely be deported making it even MORE fun..)

Outland App: (still new to this one havent read a lot about it) not sure of the time frames for each part but faster than inland .. but part 1 is processed in canada.. (still a chance he could be re/deported during pt1) then all materials sent to visa office in jamaica.. he would then have to go to jamaica for interview and wait until part 2 paperwork/decision is processed and visa is issued for him to come back to canada.

Does anyone have a general idea of the time frames for outland applications? pt1 and pt2... wondering how much faster it would be to apply outland vs inland

 

[Isometry]

1. Regarding the passport.. this is great info. I tried calling the embassy today, but i keep getting their voicemail and am too chicken to leave them a message to call me back.. but i did find what i needed on their website.. the cost is $141 for an adult passport renewal. I think I read that you have to hand in your old passport tho.. do you think will we need it to show that he entered canada legally or for any other reason.. a new passport wont have any stamps in it to show that if we need it. I thought maybe we could report it lost and that way hang onto the old one in case.. but you need a police report for that and we are not about to call them..lol

Have you considered photocopying all the pages of the old passport before you get it renewed? You can even get the copies notarized. That way, if you don't get it back, you've still got it.

Inland App: approx 11mos for part 1, and unknown for part 2 dependent upon supporting documents ...he would stay in Canada (albeit illegal at least until pt1 is complete) and provided immigration doesn't decide to deport him or no one else reports him. If that were to happen, then we lost the privledge to apply inland for good and must start all over with an outland app.. (and if by chance we haven't got his passport renewed yet he'd not be able to leave voluntarily and likely be deported making it even MORE fun..)

I *think*, though I'm not 100% and hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong, that if an inland application is forfeit you've lost the right to apply, period.

Outland App: (still new to this one havent read a lot about it) not sure of the time frames for each part but faster than inland .. but part 1 is processed in canada.. (still a chance he could be re/deported during pt1) then all materials sent to visa office in jamaica.. he would then have to go to jamaica for interview and wait until part 2 paperwork/decision is processed and visa is issued for him to come back to canada.

He would only have to go to Jamaica if an interview is required. Sometimes interviews are waived, and he wouldn't have to go to Jamaica.

Does anyone have a general idea of the time frames for outland applications? pt1 and pt2... wondering how much faster it would be to apply outland vs inland

You can see the processing times here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm-fc.asp

Inland is currently taking 11 months for p1, and 8 months for p2, for 19 months total.
Outland is taking 3 months for p1, and 16 months for p2 through Kingston, for 19 months total.

Keep in mind that processing times, especially for part 2, vary wildly, so these estimates are estimates only. Here is a spreadsheet for Kingston applicants so that you can get a better idea.