Canada sponsorship confusion...

[tinpanalley]

She must be clear at the border that she is just visiting. You can bring all your stuff back with you; she should not. If she has a lot of things, more than a typical visitor, maybe you could mail them to your family in the USA to be stored while the application is being processed.

As others have suggested, and as I'm now learning, saying what you've told me to say constitutes not being upfront about our situation and an application that has been paid for and is underway. So saying she's just visiting goes, if I'm not mistaken, against what others are saying is the right way to present oneself at the border when arriving in Canada. Also, it's not like she has 'things' and I have 'things'. We've been married for 11 years. We have things, collectively. We can't just mail furniture and belongings to family in the US. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Isn't it best to say directly what we're in the process of doing?

Also, in case this is relevant, it's Quebec we're moving to. We've already seen that this adds a step to the process so we're aware of that.

Thanks for the continued help.

 

[canadianwoman]

You two should of course be honest with the border agents. But what your wife is going to be doing is visit Canada. She should not say she is moving to Canada, because she cannot do so until she gets a PR visa. She is just going to be visiting you while the PR application is being processed.
If she has proof that the application has been started (for example, the fee receipt), she should be let in. Even without this proof, an American who says they are going to visit Canada while applying for PR are generally let in. Most people in her situation are.
You can bring all your things back with you, but declare them as your household goods.

To sum up, yes, you should be upfront about your plans for applying for PR, but she also has to be clear that she is just visiting until the PR visa is granted.

 

[tinpanalley]

Hi again, everyone...
Spoke to a lawyer today (admittedly not an immigration lawyer, but a Canadian lawyer of a friend). He said, that under no circumstances should my wife go into the country as a visitor having applied as an outland applicant with the application fee having been paid already because she can't have two visas: applicant for PR and also visitor. They are very likely to at that moment send her to whatever place her outland application location is because he claims they don't like people showing up in this way. His advice was, even though it'll be a longer time without work, that she should enter as a visitor openly stating that she would immediately be beginning her process to become a permanent resident by applying inland. That is, according to him, the only way to be 100% honest and show them that you're not trying to cheat the system. Then, once you're in, you can see about talking to an immigration lawyer to see if there's any way to get temporary work status and just wait out however many months it takes to have the PR status granted.

Any thoughts?

 

[canuck_in_uk]

He said, that under no circumstances should my wife go into the country as a visitor having applied as an outland applicant with the application fee having been paid already because she can't have two visas: applicant for PR and also visitor. They are very likely to at that moment send her to whatever place her outland application location is because he claims they don't like people showing up in this way. His advice was, even though it'll be a longer time without work, that she should enter as a visitor openly stating that she would immediately be beginning her process to become a permanent resident by applying inland. That is, according to him, the only way to be 100% honest and show them that you're not trying to cheat the system. Then, once you're in, you can see about talking to an immigration lawyer to see if there's any way to get temporary work status and just wait out however many months it takes to have the PR status granted.

Sigh.

Completely and totally wrong. Just so wrong, I don't even know where to start.

She is most definitely allowed to enter Canada as a visitor while the outland app processes.

As an American, she doesn't even apply for a visitor visa. Regardless, there is absolutely no issue with applying for PR and temporary status (visitor, student, worker) at the same time.

They are not likely to send her anywhere.

CBSA likes it when people entering as visitora have already applied for PR because it shows them that the person is following the rules to be able to live in Canada legally.

Openly stating on entry that a person will be applying for PR is actually riskier.

There is absolutely no need to see an immigration lawyer about any of this.

O to sum up, this lawyer basically got everything wrong and should not meddle.in things he knows eff all about.

 

[tinpanalley]

O to sum up, this lawyer basically got everything wrong and should not meddle.in things he knows eff all about.

;D ;D
Ok, cool. That was funny, by the way, loved your reply.
We've reached out to CanadaVisa filling out one of their free assessment forms and they've said they'll get back to us in a couple of days (cutting it a bit close but it's fine), not because we don't believe any of you but only to have someone official to hear out all of our details and confirm what you guys have said. We'll pay whatever the fee is to confirm this because sometimes you just need an official response. Well, maybe not everyone but we do.

 

[scylla]

Hi again, everyone...
Spoke to a lawyer today (admittedly not an immigration lawyer, but a Canadian lawyer of a friend). He said, that under no circumstances should my wife go into the country as a visitor having applied as an outland applicant with the application fee having been paid already because she can't have two visas: applicant for PR and also visitor. They are very likely to at that moment send her to whatever place her outland application location is because he claims they don't like people showing up in this way. His advice was, even though it'll be a longer time without work, that she should enter as a visitor openly stating that she would immediately be beginning her process to become a permanent resident by applying inland. That is, according to him, the only way to be 100% honest and show them that you're not trying to cheat the system. Then, once you're in, you can see about talking to an immigration lawyer to see if there's any way to get temporary work status and just wait out however many months it takes to have the PR status granted.

Any thoughts?

Don't get any more advice from this friend. He has absolutely no clue what he's talking about when it comes to immigration. He should be very careful about providing advice in areas where he has no understanding. Not only can this get him reported to the law society (not saying you would, but someone else might) - but if you followed his advice, your life would unnecessarily and massively suck for the next two years. He's a bad friend. Good friends don't provide advice and talk as experts when they're not.

 

[Ponga]

Hi again, everyone...
Spoke to a lawyer today (admittedly not an immigration lawyer, but a Canadian lawyer of a friend)

Enough said.

Perhaps the lawyer practices in defective product litigation. I wonder if he has a cousin named Vinny?

To echo what's already been said...this is the epitome of bad advice.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

We've reached out to CanadaVisa filling out one of their free assessment forms and they've said they'll get back to us in a couple of days (cutting it a bit close but it's fine), not because we don't believe any of you but only to have someone official to hear out all of our details and confirm what you guys have said. We'll pay whatever the fee is to confirm this because sometimes you just need an official response. Well, maybe not everyone but we do.

You are going to be doing exactly what my spouse and I did, and what many others have done. We were living in the UK and submitted an outland app. Halfway through the process, we came to Canada, with my spouse entering as a visitor without issue.

 

[Omegabyte]

tinpanalley,

Please, please DON'T spend any more time (or money) worrying about this?

My wife is a Canadian citizen by birth. I'm US citizen by birth. We met this Feb online, and we were married July 3. We've made several trips back and forth across the border, as I'm from Spokane and she's from Lethbridge, AB. Each time, we updated CBSA about our plans, and never had one single problem (although we were asked to come in to secondary a couple times). We filled out our OUTLAND application, paid the C$1040 fees ($75 sponsor app, $475 applicant, and $490 right of PR), and sent our application in to CPC-M this past week.

I needed to go on a mail run to Spokane early last week, so I took a binder with a complete copy of our application with me, in case there were any questions or concerns. Crossing back north, I went into the CBSA at Kingsgate, and asked for a visitor record lasting 6 months. Its NOT a visa, but an official document confirming permission to be here AS A VISITOR for the next six months. They quickly granted it, because I had proof we applied for PR, and we had been following the rules. You see, CIC and CBSA must recognize "dual intent" - meaning you can intend to become a permanent resident AND intend to be here in Canada as a visitor, simultaneously!

If for some odd reason, my PR application hasn't gone through in six months, I'll probably be granted an extension. Many get a year, and some even get a 10 year multiple re-entry permit! Also, US->Canada OUTLAND apps are going very quickly, so we're confident I'll have my CoPR by Christmas! Fingers crossed!

Basically, what we're telling you is what we've all done, most of us WITHOUT an attorney. Just read all the forum posts from folks that did use an attorney, and all the misfortune they've had. Not saying all attorneys are trouble, but it seems to be a field filled with immigration scams and "legal experts" that don't seem to know a damn thing about immigration.

It's very easy to fill out the OUTLAND forms! You CAN do it!!

 

[canadianwoman]

1. Spoke to a lawyer today (admittedly not an immigration lawyer, but a Canadian lawyer of a friend). He said, that under no circumstances should my wife go into the country as a visitor having applied as an outland applicant with the application fee having been paid already because 2. she can't have two visas: applicant for PR and also visitor. 3. They are very likely to at that moment send her to whatever place her outland application location is because he claims they don't like people showing up in this way. 4. His advice was, even though it'll be a longer time without work, that she should enter as a visitor openly stating that she would immediately be beginning her process to become a permanent resident by applying inland. 5. That is, according to him, the only way to be 100% honest and show them that you're not trying to cheat the system. 6. Then, once you're in, you can see about talking to an immigration lawyer to see if there's any way to get temporary work status and just wait out however many months it takes to have the PR status granted.

1. If you go to a lawyer, make sure it is an immigration lawyer. Immigration is not something that the average lawyer is going to know anything about. It is not a required class in law schools.
2. She is an American, so does not need a visitor visa to enter Canada. So she will not have two visas or two visa applications at one time: she will have her PR application and status as a visitor in Canada, which is perfectly fine.
3. They don't mind people showing up like this. Many people on this forum have applied for PR outland, then entered Canada as a visitor, and have had no problems.
4. In general, Americans should not apply inland. It takes a long time, you cannot appeal, you are advised not to leave the country during processing, and the work permit you can get with an inland application takes 4 or 5 months to get - when an outland applicant might have PR in 6 months.
5. Applying outland and then visiting is in no way cheating the system. CIC even suggests people who are in Canada apply outland for the faster processing times. There is also something called dual intent: you can want to enter permanently, and at the same time want to enter on a temporary basis.
6. There is a very easy way to get a work permit if you apply inland: you just send in the application for an open work permit with your PR application. There is no need for a lawyer to figure out a way to do this. (Still, an American should apply outland.)

 

[tinpanalley]

Hey everyone,
You've all been so helpful, thank you. Well of course you were all correct. This guy has no experience whatsoever with Canadian Immigration law. My wife and I spoke with CanadaVisa.com today on a conference call and they basically confirmed everything you guys had said. Outland vs inland, etc. So, I guess since we managed to get this visa to come to France on our own without any lawyers helping and it was a country neither of us had even lived in before, we think we're probably ok to try this on our own too. Anyone have any advice with respect to doing this on their own vs getting legal help? Why get the lawyer? Only so that we can just not have to worry about it. Dealing with government related paperwork while living in France has been a very time consuming affair. And I just thought if we'll be arriving in Quebec to find an apartment and everything, we just thought it would be a load off our minds. Also, other government things we've done on our own have never had the potential of causing either of us to not be able to enter a country with each other and so that bit scares me a bit.
Should we just do this on our own or do you not think there's much point? Biggest concern, I know I've brought it up before but what exactly to say at the border upon arrival.

Thanks!

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Also, other government things we've done on our own have never had the potential of causing either of us to not be able to enter a country with each other and so that bit scares me a bit.

Should we just do this on our own or do you not think there's much point?

Biggest concern, I know I've brought it up before but what exactly to say at the border upon arrival.

There is no need to be scared. Here's the thing: the PR app will be approved. It's not like applying for a job or to university, where you can still be refused even if you meet all of the requirements. If you meet the requirements, you get approved. Your wife is American, so there is no Marriage of Convenience risk and you have a low threshold to prove your relationship. Assuming she has no criminal issues and you have no welfare/bankruptcy issues, it is not a matter of if but when the app will be approved.

Do it on your own. The majority of people do it without a lawyer. Besides, you have to do the majority of the work anyways, i.e. gathering the documents, filling out the forms, gathering relationship proofs etc. A lawyer will basically be charging you around $3000-$5000 or more to double-check everything and organize the app.

She just says that she is visiting her husband while her PR app is processing. If asked, she can show proof of the PR app (the fee receipt or Sponsor Approval if you have it by then). She should carry proof of finances and proof of a return ticket just in case. When we came to Canada, my partner had a separate fully refundable ticket and proof of finances but the CBSA officer didn't ask to see either. He checked that we had an app in the system, asked how much money we had, told my partner not to work and sent us on out way.

 

[tinpanalley]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say thanks again for all the replies. We did cross the border at Montreal on our way to Quebec City where we now are, but it was not completely as easy as suggested. It was a three hour process of going from regular customs (1 hour in line) to an actual immigration officer who had questions to ask about my wife, what she was going to be doing in Canada, etc. We stated very clearly that she was only visiting in the meantime while we assembled the application and she wouldn't even think about looking for work. That guy reminded us she cant work and let us go, and then we were sent to a private inspection of our things. That was another hour in line, after which the officer wanted to see a specific list of our things that were coming over on the container ship. Luckily I happened to have shoved it in the suitcase before leaving because I hadn't planned on having it. And luckily, he was ok with it as proof of our things and stamped us so we wouldn't be charged taxes on their arrival. Then we had to process papers for our cat which we didn't read about anywhere. THEN we were allowed through.

Anyway.. we've started filling out all the forms, confident with all your input that we don't need a lawyer and, to be honest, I can't imagine what we'd need them for anyway. There's been nothing to fill out we'd need anyone's help with. But we do have a question... we're gonna send this application out by the end of the month, but what if we don't get a reply before her 6 month visitation is finished? Can she enter and exit again from a nearby border? Won't that look weird doing it the same day? Can she ask for an extension to this "visit"? And finally, is there any chance once the application is sent that she can be granted ANY kind of temporary work status? Or is that completely off the table? We don't desperately need it, we're just curious. It would be useful, that's all.

Thank you all!!

 

[wyho007]

An extension can be filed the 5th month into the stay. I don't believe work (and even study) status is possible. It doesn't take long for Americans to be approved, lots don't even need to file an extension to receive the COPR.

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say thanks again for all the replies. We did cross the border at Montreal on our way to Quebec City where we now are, but it was not completely as easy as suggested. It was a three hour process of going from regular customs (1 hour in line) to an actual immigration officer who had questions to ask about my wife, what she was going to be doing in Canada, etc. We stated very clearly that she was only visiting in the meantime while we assembled the application and she wouldn't even think about looking for work. That guy reminded us she cant work and let us go, and then we were sent to a private inspection of our things. That was another hour in line, after which the officer wanted to see a specific list of our things that were coming over on the container ship. Luckily I happened to have shoved it in the suitcase before leaving because I hadn't planned on having it. And luckily, he was ok with it as proof of our things and stamped us so we wouldn't be charged taxes on their arrival. Then we had to process papers for our cat which we didn't read about anywhere. THEN we were allowed through.

Anyway.. we've started filling out all the forms, confident with all your input that we don't need a lawyer and, to be honest, I can't imagine what we'd need them for anyway. There's been nothing to fill out we'd need anyone's help with. But we do have a question... we're gonna send this application out by the end of the month, but what if we don't get a reply before her 6 month visitation is finished? Can she enter and exit again from a nearby border? Won't that look weird doing it the same day? Can she ask for an extension to this "visit"? And finally, is there any chance once the application is sent that she can be granted ANY kind of temporary work status? Or is that completely off the table? We don't desperately need it, we're just curious. It would be useful, that's all.

Thank you all!!

 

[Lady_Ashka]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say thanks again for all the replies. We did cross the border at Montreal on our way to Quebec City where we now are, but it was not completely as easy as suggested. It was a three hour process of going from regular customs (1 hour in line) to an actual immigration officer who had questions to ask about my wife, what she was going to be doing in Canada, etc. We stated very clearly that she was only visiting in the meantime while we assembled the application and she wouldn't even think about looking for work. That guy reminded us she cant work and let us go, and then we were sent to a private inspection of our things. That was another hour in line, after which the officer wanted to see a specific list of our things that were coming over on the container ship. Luckily I happened to have shoved it in the suitcase before leaving because I hadn't planned on having it. And luckily, he was ok with it as proof of our things and stamped us so we wouldn't be charged taxes on their arrival. Then we had to process papers for our cat which we didn't read about anywhere. THEN we were allowed through.

Anyway.. we've started filling out all the forms, confident with all your input that we don't need a lawyer and, to be honest, I can't imagine what we'd need them for anyway. There's been nothing to fill out we'd need anyone's help with. But we do have a question... we're gonna send this application out by the end of the month, but what if we don't get a reply before her 6 month visitation is finished? Can she enter and exit again from a nearby border? Won't that look weird doing it the same day? Can she ask for an extension to this "visit"? And finally, is there any chance once the application is sent that she can be granted ANY kind of temporary work status? Or is that completely off the table? We don't desperately need it, we're just curious. It would be useful, that's all.

Thank you all!!

I just wanna say congratulations on a safe, honest, and relatively nice border crossing and good luck with the application! If you want to extend her stay as visitor, just apply 30 days before her status expires, you can do that online, I think.

all the best!