Can I leave Canada while applying for PR?

[Lucy M]

If I submit an Outland application, can I still enter my Canadian address as 'home address' and put my Canadian phone number? The address will be the same as my Canadian spouse.

 

[taffy7]

yes

 

[SchnookoLoly]

Yes - have a look at the FAQ linked in my signature. It's geared towards British applicants but most of the questions are standard across all applications.

 

[Lucy M]

Thanks SchnookoLoly, I followed the links in your signature and the current processing time for Outland applications through the London office looks to be 62 days for stage one, plus 29 months for stage two. That's longer than what's stated if you apply inland.

 

[SchnookoLoly]

If you apply through London, you are applying outland, not inland.

If you read both the FAQ and the big red box on the spreadsheet, outland applications via London for British applicants is taking an average of a total of 8-9 months. The 29 month thing is because of Pakistani applications being processed in London. Again, this is clearly stated both in the FAQ (third question I believe is "How long will it take") and in the big red box on the cover sheet of the spreadsheet.

Inland I think right now is 17+8 months, and that's pretty well standard.

 

[Lucy M]

Yes, I realise if you apply through London you're applying Outland. I was just saying that 29 months is longer than the average of stage two for inland applications. Yet everyone is advised to go Outland.
Thanks for clarifying that this is in fact an "average" and has increased due to the applications from Islamabad. While I believe what you are saying is true, (and what I had assumed from the start with these processing times) and that standard applications are still taking 8-9 months for Outland applications through London (I'm British by the way, in case you haven't read my super detailed and outrageously lengthy previous posts!), a previous poster here was adamant that processing times stated on CIC websites are not "averages." So adamant in fact it came across as condescending and rude. He states that the processing times are accurate, as applications are dealt with in the order they are received. He said this in response to news that I know of Brits living in Edmonton, who submitted INLAND applications that say they have received their PR just 4 months after first sending the paperwork. This was announced on a Facebook forum for Brits living in Edmonton and met with varied comments including of others who had also been pleasantly surprised to receive theirs so quickly, within six months. The previous poster here basically stated that those people on the forum must be mistaken, must have applied Outland, or are lying. Which they insist they are not.
I am trying to decide if I ought to apply inland or Outland, and the processing time is obviously a big factor to consider in making that decision so I want to be sure I'm getting the correct information.
If both you and the previous poster are correct, that would mean that CIC post "averages" for Outland application processing times, and accurate timings for inland, which is a very confusing inconsistency.

 

[SchnookoLoly]

Okay, so I'll try to post this as clearly as I can!

First, the times posted on CIC's website are *NOT* averages. If you want proof, just read what it says right on CIC's website (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm/fc-spouses.asp): The times are based on how long it took to process 80 percent of all cases between January 1, 2014 to December 31, 2014.

So that means that 80% of applications were processed FASTER than 29 months, and that 20% of applications took LONGER than 29 months, and that's just looking at applications received in 2014. In late 2013, London started processing applications from Islamabad. Previous to that, the stated 80% number for London was 11 months - which made perfect sense with what the spreadsheet was showing - 80% of applications filed via London were processed in 11 months or less. The average was generally about 6ish months in 2013.

Once London started processing Islamabad applications, the average dropped a bit, but only just a bit. British applicants, as well as applicants from countries that are processed in London (Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, etc), were still coming in at about 8-9 months from the time they sent their application to Mississauga to the time that they got Decision Made.

Applicants coming from Islamabad take, like, 2 years, hence London's averages suddenly being thrown way off. There are a few questions in the first part of the FAQ that address this. London's standard line is not to contact them for an update until you have passed their posted processing time... well, as soon as 11 months passed London started getting completely inundated with requests from Pakistani applicants, and it just completely flooded them - I'm surprised it took them as long as it did to change their published processing time!!

So it's important that when you consider how long your outland application will take that you consider the average for BRITISH applicants, and not PAKISTANI applicants.

So that's the first part explained.

Next, you know of Brits living in Edmonton who have had their PR completely processed in FOUR MONTHS, and they applied INLAND?! Sorry, I do not believe that for one second. IF they applied outland, then yes, I do believe that, the spreadsheet clearly shows that some applicants get processed that quickly, but I don't think anyone, EVER, has had an inland application get processed in 4 months. However, if they are saying they had their OWP issued in 4 months, then THAT I believe - CIC is trying to get work permits out to inland applicants within 4 months of receiving the application, so that is certianly possible.

Next.

The bit where you say the other poster said that applications are dealt with in the order they are received... that is broadly accurate. However, that does not mean that APPROVALS come in the order they are received. If CIC has two applications sitting on their desk, one received in January 2015 and the other received in April 2015, then they will open the January 2015 one first. But if the January one has, say, a messy divorce, lots of dependent kids, a hasty marriage, a big age gap, and lots of other red flags, whereas the one in April is just a simple boy-meets-girl-boy-marries-girl-boy-sponsors-girl-boy-and-girl-have-happy-ending application, then yeah, it's entirely possible that the April one will be approved in, say, 3 months, whereas the January one will be approved in, say, 9 months. So they will work on January first, but it does not mean that January will be approved first. Make sense?

(Stage 1 outland - the sponsor approval - goes broadly linearly and approvals come broadly in order because there are only a set number of factors that CIC looks at to assess the sponsor - criminal background check, are you on welfare, are you subject to minimum income, is the application complete - yes - next! - take a pretty set amount of time and there are far, far fewer variables at play when assessing the sponsor as opposed to assessing the applicant.)

Inland applications tend to be much more "accurate" in terms of posting times because Stage 1 is not as simple as just "approve the sponsor" - there's also a preliminary review of the rest of the application that takes place, hence it taking so much longer. In addition, applications filed from within Canada will be from a mix of all different citizenships and backgrounds - the chances of finding complicated applications in the inland pile are WAAAAAAAAAAAY higher than in the outland piles via Western offices. (Yeah, yeah, I know I am massively generalizing, but it's a fact!).

So my advice to you is this.

Read this article carefully - http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Spousal_Sponsorship-Canada - and pay particular attention to the bit about pros and cons of applying inland vs outland.

If you are desperate for a work permit, then apply inland. PR will take probably just over 2 years, but you will be able to work in a few months. If you are not desperate to work, are going to wait in the UK while your application is processing, or are content to chill out in Canada as a visitor for 8-9 months, then apply outland and have the whole process done and dusted way faster. Take the other considerations for inland vs outland into account as well, including freedom to travel in and out of Canada, as well as right of appeal, should you need it.

Hopefully that helps and is not too overwhelming. I'm heading off, but if you have more questions, I will be back tomorrow, or others will respond faster.

Good luck!

 

[Lucy M]

Thanks SchnookoLoly, that was an extremely helpful reply. I'm still stumped on the people who received their PR so quickly though. They weren't talking about the work permit either. I shall ask them more questions as I am baffled.

I'm not desperate to work. I'm pregnant (baby due November) and don't plan to work for quite a while. Fortunately hubby makes plenty enough for both of us, plus we have savings. We just moved to Edmonton having spent a year backpacking full circle around the world. Prior to that I held an IEC visa for two consecutive years and lived and worked in Calgary, as a producer for Shaw. Prior to that my husband held the same visa for England. We have lived together since January 2011, and were married in September 2013. I currently have a Visitor Record, which I obtained at the border in exchange of presenting my receipt for full payment (the $1,040) along with our marriage certificate. I needed that in order to get health care in Alberta as we knew I might be pregnant. We also knew Alberta is the only province to offer spouses of Canadians health care before they have PR. So we did our research in that respect. (Didn't want to return to Alberta to be honest. We'd have preferred Ontario or Quebec. But rules dictate. And job money is excellent in Alberta so it has it's perks.)

I am desperate to be able to visit elderly family and friends for life events in England however, without fear of being refused re entry, which other posters have just about convinced me not to risk. I only want to go for two weeks, and would be prepared with every conceivable piece of paperwork and evidence they could possibly request of me, yet the general advice here has been it's still not worth the risk. Which seems very dramatic and 'wrong' but it is influencing me considerably.

It seems like the Outland application may pose fewer risks if I wish to leave Canada for a couple of weeks, and as it is apparently the much faster option and I don't need to work, Outland seems the best and most obvious option. Fortunately I've heard there's no time limit between paying the fee and submitting the application as we paid the fee while in Bali in February and have not yet submitted the application. (Obviously, this is why I am asking these questions.) I've found this forum to be particularly helpful so far, and am enormously grateful to have found a way to have health care given that I'm pregnant with our first baby.

I just want to be absolutely certain I am doing the best and correct thing before I send any large envelopes... Huh, falling for a foreigner isn't easy, eh?! It's all a bit 'Shakespearean love story'.

 

[taffy7]

Lucy you are doing the right thing. Honestly you don't want to take the risk of now being able to go home and visit family. Its hard enough living in another country when our family gets sick, never mind thinking if you are denied at the boarder your application goes out the window. Schnook is one of the seniors who I totally respect for advice. My time line is all messed because I didn't include one document for my step son and mine is not an easy case. Your sounds very simple and I really advise you to proceed and go outland. If you are one of the lucky ones and your application gets to stay in Mississauga you could well be done and dusted in 4 months . They just started this last August, keeping some applications in Mississauga .

 

[canuck_in_uk]

I'm still stumped on the people who received their PR so quickly though. They weren't talking about the work permit either. I shall ask them more questions as I am baffled.

I am desperate to be able to visit elderly family and friends for life events in England however, without fear of being refused re entry, which other posters have just about convinced me not to risk.

As others have said, there is absolutely no way that any inland app has been completely processed in 4 months.

Given the desire to be able to travel to the UK without risk, outland is by far the better option for your situation.

 

[Rob_TO]

a previous poster here was adamant that processing times stated on CIC websites are not "averages." So adamant in fact it came across as condescending and rude. He states that the processing times are accurate, as applications are dealt with in the order they are received. He said this in response to news that I know of Brits living in Edmonton, who submitted INLAND applications that say they have received their PR just 4 months after first sending the paperwork. This was announced on a Facebook forum for Brits living in Edmonton and met with varied comments including of others who had also been pleasantly surprised to receive theirs so quickly, within six months. The previous poster here basically stated that those people on the forum must be mistaken, must have applied Outland, or are lying. Which they insist they are not.

I assume you're referring to my post, where I stated those random facebook posters must be mistaken, and then explained the reasons why I thought that. I don't see in the slightest how you saw anything there as rude or condescending. A few other posters have also since stated the same thing as I did and are just as adamant about it, I hope you don't view those posters as rude and condescending as well.

To further explain though, the way CIC displays processing times is completely different for outland vs inland. SchnookoLoly has explained the outland "80%" times, which are basically worst-case scenarios meaning vast majority of applications are done quicker.

What I was referring to for apps being processed in the order they're received, is for INLAND apps only. It's seen very clearly on CIC's processing times page: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm-fc.asp
Scroll right to the bottom for inland, and you see for stage 1:
Type of sponsorship application: Spouse, common-law partner in Canada
Assessment of sponsor and person being sponsored (Updated weekly):
17 months (initial assessment)
Working on applications received on October 21, 2013

So for inland apps, the 17 months is not even actual processing, it is more the time your app is sitting in a backlog pile waiting to be processed. CIC updates these times weekly as they progress with the backlog. So if they are just now doing apps from Oct 21, 2013... it is statistically impossible for anyone to see a 4 month processing time in total if they follow the backlog.

For further proof of this, take a look at the inland spreadsheet compiled on this site: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArK2RVjQ5v59dFlqaGRPN3JxaGY4Nk9ucTZxV1Z0NEE&usp=sharing#gid=0

Out of 500 or so inland applications going back 2 years, you will see only a very few people being processed recently in the 8 months range, and that is solely due to the fact that these people had problems with CBSA so there was a specific reason they had the apps expedited. For everyone else, the times follow what the CIC site was displaying. Kind of not fair though that people who didn't follow the status rules and ended up in trouble with CBSA, get expedited PR because of it.

So again, any random story you read of an inland person being recently processed in 4 months total is either a lie, they are talking instead about 4 months time to OWP or for stage 2 approval, they actually applied outland, they had a specific reason for quick processing via CBSA, or CIC made a huge bureaucratic error to jump their app ahead of hundreds of people in front of them. Nobody should ever count on inland times ever being quicker than what is posted on the CIC site.

 

[scylla]

He said this in response to news that I know of Brits living in Edmonton, who submitted INLAND applications that say they have received their PR just 4 months after first sending the paperwork. This was announced on a Facebook forum for Brits living in Edmonton and met with varied comments including of others who had also been pleasantly surprised to receive theirs so quickly, within six months. The previous poster here basically stated that those people on the forum must be mistaken, must have applied Outland, or are lying. Which they insist they are not.

As others have said, it's 100% impossible for an inland application to be processed in 4 months (or even six months). The absolute minimum it would take right now is 17 months for an inland application. Those who say they applied inland and received PR in 4 or 6 months either do not understand Canadian immigration terms or are not using them correctly. Perhaps they applied outland while living / visiting Canada.

The outland processing times are not averages (whoever told you this is absolutely correct). They represent how long it took for CIC to complete processing for 80% of application. This means that if you see a processing time of 15 months - 80% of applications were processed in 15 months OR LESS (in some cases much less time). As an example, when my husband's application was processed, the posted processing time was 10 or 11 months, he got through in 4 months (including the Mississauga portion of the process).