Can a Dutch citizen visiting Canada, go to USA and back with a Visitor Record?

[cajual]

I am a Canadian and my fiancee is Dutch. She came here into Canada to be with me (She wants to live here). We want to visit the USA next weekend.

1) Will USA let her visit and will Canada let her come back in with a valid, non-expired Visitor Record? The Visitor Record says "This Does Not Authorize Re-Entry" but I keep reading in various topics and on the gov site that USA is an exception? The Visitor Record expires Sept 4th, 2014.

2) Is this Visitor Record considered a Single Entry Visa?

3) Also, will applying for Permanent Residence or Visitor Extension help her chances of crossing there and back or something?

I want to make sure we got all corners covered so we don't have any unexpected surprises. We don't want to leave Canada and then she's stuck at the US/Canadian border when we want to come back, or worse, forced to fly back to the Netherlands.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

1) If she is Dutch, she should have no issues entering the US; she'll need an ESTA. She will most likely be allowed back into Canada but entry is never guaranteed, regardless of what status she holds. She needs to be very clear when re-entering Canada that she is just visiting you and isn't actually living in Canada. If the border officer suspects that she has actually moved to Canada, she will face problems.

2) A visitor record is a piece of paper that says how long she can stay in Canada; it has nothing to do with entry. It is not a Temporary Resident Visa, which allows entry into Canada and can be either single or multiple entry. As a visa-exempt Dutch citizen, she doesn't need a TRV to enter Canada.

3) Not really. Visa-exempt citizens with a PR app submitted are usually allowed entry but again, it's never guaranteed. It pretty much all comes down to the border officer. And there's no point in submitting a visitor extension, as that basically becomes void when she leaves Canada.

 

[Regina]

She came here into Canada to be with me (She wants to live here).

On what immigration grounds?
And how long she has been staying in Canada already?

 

[cajual]

Wow thanks for such great answers.

To follow up with your first answer, she *is* actually trying to move here with me. She was here for half a year and was allowed in as a visitor - no Visitor Record was issued. In this time she was here, we got a place together. She is contributing to rent and essentially living here.

Then she left for 3 weeks then came back to Canada, told border officer she is basically living in Canada then they issued the Visitor Record saying that if she leaves, they won't let her back in and best to start applying for Immigration.

So based on this little history, do you think she'll be able to visit the USA next weekend and then come back into Canada? We're common-law and engaged. We're in the process of submitting an application for immigration since she is eligible. Regina, she can apply as self-employed (first choice), or I can sponsor her as common law.

Ultimately, I'm trying to figure out if she's locked down in Canada for awhile or if USA is one of those exempt countries she can visit while we're in the process of making her a PR.

Thanks again Canuck and Regina, I appreciate your support.

 

[Regina]

Then she left for 3 weeks then came back to Canada, told border officer she is basically living in Canada then they issued the Visitor Record saying that if she leaves, they won't let her back in and best to start applying for Immigration.

So based on this little history, do you think she'll be able to visit the USA next weekend and then come back into Canada?

Obviously, she will not be allowed to come back to Canada. They have already told her that.

Ussualy, if a person has a visa to come to Canada and then visits USA he/she is allowed to come back but in the case of your girlffriend I think it is not the case.

We're common-law and engaged. We're in the process of submitting an application for immigration since she is eligible. Regina, she can apply as self-employed (first choice), or I can sponsor her as common law.

I personally would not take such a risk but it is all up to you.
Have you been living together for 12+ months? Because only then you are considered common law partners(for immigration purpose too).
Engagament is not a marriage , CIC does not take "engagament" in consideration.

 

[cajual]

Thanks Regina

It wasn't too obvious to me as I've been getting mixed messages from different sources. The CIC Agent I spoke to on the phone a couple minutes ago said she'd be able to get back into Canada since she's Dutch and would only be travelling to the USA, which is considered an acceptable travel destination for people with Temp Visas, Visitor Records, etc - so I was wondering if it would be safe to assume that US Travel would be ok.

I guess not though : Sounds like it's not worth the risk. Guess we'll have to plan our long weekend Canadian-Style next week 8)

 

[Regina]

Did you tell the agent THE WHOLE STORY?

they issued the Visitor Record saying that if she leaves, they won't let her back in and best to start applying for Immigration.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Then she left for 3 weeks then came back to Canada, told border officer she is basically living in Canada then they issued the Visitor Record saying that if she leaves, they won't let her back in and best to start applying for Immigration.

So based on this little history, do you think she'll be able to visit the USA next weekend and then come back into Canada? We're common-law and engaged. We're in the process of submitting an application for immigration since she is eligible.

If the border officer told her she wouldn't be let in again, it's not a good idea to take the chance. The officer could have documented her admission that she was living in Canada without the actual right and the warning she was given so that another border officer would see that if she tried to enter again. I would suggest you get the common-law sponsorship app submitted before she leaves Canada and tries to re-enter. Even with a warning on file, the chances of being refused entry with a spousal PR app processing are low.

 

[cajual]

@Regina: :-\ Nope! I just told the agent on the phone what I stated in the initial post of this thread - so you're right, the agent likely would have told me the same as you if I was being a little more comprehensive. But yes we've lived together for over a year now; 6 months in the Netherlands and just about a year in Canada

Luckily, I'm super fortunate to have you fine folks help me clarify what's going on and save my girl and me a lot of trouble. I should stop making assumptions - I appreciate your encouragement to use the ol' brain, Regina.

@Canuck: Wow, this was super insightful! So to clarify (In my attempt to stop making assumptions ) I guess in this case it would make a bit of a difference in our favour to submit a PR app prior to travelling?

One quick followup question, would it matter if the app is on the premise of self-employment or would spousal be better... or are they usually considered equal in situations like this? Sounds like there's no black-and-white answer and that it heavily relies on the border officer of course, but I'm curious to know your experience.

Thanks again!

 

[Regina]

app is on the premise of self-employment or would spousal be better...

I am not sure she IS allowed to be self-employed (to work) in Canada being on visitor visa. And if you apply for sponsoring her it will take some time to get something from CIC as a proof that you have applied. Without such a proof your words at POE that you (both of you) are in a process are only words.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

@ Canuck: Wow, this was super insightful! So to clarify (In my attempt to stop making assumptions ) I guess in this case it would make a bit of a difference in our favour to submit a PR app prior to travelling?

One quick followup question, would it matter if the app is on the premise of self-employment or would spousal be better... or are they usually considered equal in situations like this? Sounds like there's no black-and-white answer and that it heavily relies on the border officer of course, but I'm curious to know your experience.

Yes, having a sponsorship app submitted would be beneficial in this case. If that previous border officer did put the warning in her file, another border officer would be more likely to allow her back in knowing that she has applied for PR, as there is little chance of the PR app being refused.


Spousal apps tend to be easier, more straightforward and faster than economic applications.

 

[cajual]

I am not sure she IS allowed to be self-employed (to work) in Canada being on visitor visa. And if you apply for sponsoring her it will take some time to get something from CIC as a proof that you have applied. Without such a proof your words at POE that you (both of you) are in a process are only words.

Well, she's making a full-time living on YouTube, so she films videos while the earnings are perpetual. (Ad revenue) :

And that's a great point Regina, it will definitely take some time for any proof of receipt to come through.

Yes, having a sponsorship app submitted would be beneficial in this case. If that previous border officer did put the warning in her file, another border officer would be more likely to allow her back in knowing that she has applied for PR, as there is little chance of the PR app being refused.

Spousal apps tend to be easier, more straightforward and faster than economic applications.

Thanks for this Canuck. Makes a ton of sense.

In any case, I don't think they'll be able to mark receipt of any app by next week, much less complete the entire app package in time and properly. She has a lot of Dutch documents and will require a certified translator, etc etc etc and we haven't even started.

You guys have been most helpful. This has cleared everything up on my end and all this info will be useful for later this summer.

Much appreciated guys!