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Bill C-6 and RO

anon123

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Jul 19, 2013
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It looks like C-6 is removing the intent to reside, but still keeping the requirement to remain eligible for citizenship until the oath ceremony. My question is with regards to the Residence Obligation:
- Will a PR fulfill the RO if accompanying a Canadian citizen common law partner while the partner is on a dependent visa? (i.e. the PR is the principal visa holder in a 3rd country and the Canadian citizen is a dependent to the PR?)
- Will the a PR fulfill the RO if accompanying a Canadian citizen common law partner while living in the PR's home country where the Canadian has residency as a common law partner of the PR?

Is it correct to assume that if C-6 passes we can apply "on the way to the airport" and as long as we keep the RO we should be fine? I.e. the "Maintaining requirements for citizenship until Oath taking" does not apply to the 3/5 physical presence requirement?
 

itsmyid

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Jul 26, 2012
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anon123 said:
It looks like C-6 is removing the intent to reside, but still keeping the requirement to remain eligible for citizenship until the oath ceremony. My question is with regards to the Residence Obligation:
- Will a PR fulfill the RO if accompanying a Canadian citizen common law partner while the partner is on a dependent visa? (i.e. the PR is the principal visa holder in a 3rd country and the Canadian citizen is a dependent to the PR?)
- Will the a PR fulfill the RO if accompanying a Canadian citizen common law partner while living in the PR's home country where the Canadian has residency as a common law partner of the PR?

Is it correct to assume that if C-6 passes we can apply "on the way to the airport" and as long as we keep the RO we should be fine? I.e. the "Maintaining requirements for citizenship until Oath taking" does not apply to the 3/5 physical presence requirement?
Of course not. The bill is not long, just a few pages you can find out yourself. It is only good for maintaining PR, it would be an outrage to make it count for citizensghip
 

CCanadaa

Full Member
Jan 27, 2016
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Your questions are not clear, but all I can tell you is that bill c 6 is for citizenship, it has nothing to do with PR's RO.
 

links18

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What it means is don't go out and celebrate when you see "Decision Made" on Ecas and get caught driving impaired--because they might cancel your oath.

You need to maintain your RO until oath--or at the very least avoid anyone questioning it before the oath. Living abroad with a Canadian citizens spouse (at a bona fide residence) counts to maintain PR status.
 

ZingyDNA

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anon123 said:
Is it correct to assume that if C-6 passes we can apply "on the way to the airport" and as long as we keep the RO we should be fine? I.e. the "Maintaining requirements for citizenship until Oath taking" does not apply to the 3/5 physical presence requirement?
My understanding is you have to maintain the citizenship RO, which is 3 out of 5 years in the proposed new law, while your citizenship application is in process. Also the proposed new law will remove the "Intent to reside" clause. So in a sense, you CAN apply on the way to the airport, as long as you come back in 2 years (or less, depending on your physical presence in Canada before the application), if your application hasn't been finished by then.
 

cooldoc80

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ZNGYDNA

Are you saying that although liberals will remove the intent to residen , we still have to maintain 3 years of presence in canada even if somone leave after oath ?

lets say somone got pr and stayed for three years continously and done the oath , does this mean he can leave canada for only 2 years because if he stay longer he wont be eligible becoz he dont satisfy the 4/5 rule ?
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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anon123 said:
It looks like C-6 is removing the intent to reside, but still keeping the requirement to remain eligible for citizenship until the oath ceremony. My question is with regards to the Residence Obligation:
- Will a PR fulfill the RO if accompanying a Canadian citizen common law partner while the partner is on a dependent visa? (i.e. the PR is the principal visa holder in a 3rd country and the Canadian citizen is a dependent to the PR?)
- Will the a PR fulfill the RO if accompanying a Canadian citizen common law partner while living in the PR's home country where the Canadian has residency as a common law partner of the PR?

Is it correct to assume that if C-6 passes we can apply "on the way to the airport" and as long as we keep the RO we should be fine? I.e. the "Maintaining requirements for citizenship until Oath taking" does not apply to the 3/5 physical presence requirement?

ZingyDNA said:
My understanding is you have to maintain the citizenship RO, which is 3 out of 5 years in the proposed new law, while your citizenship application is in process. Also the proposed new law will remove the "Intent to reside" clause. So in a sense, you CAN apply on the way to the airport, as long as you come back in 2 years (or less, depending on your physical presence in Canada before the application), if your application hasn't been finished by then.
What is essential was observed by links18, that the PR applicant must continue to be qualified for citizenship and not have any prohibitions right up to the time the oath is actually taken; this includes not being inadmissible, which mostly means not being reported for a breach of the PR Residency Obligation (inadmissibility for criminality would also entail being prohibited).

But my sense is that the OP's query goes to the larger issue about whether going abroad after applying can affect the applicant's qualification for citizenship if and when Bill C-6 is adopted and takes effect (assuming it is adopted), since it removes the intent-to-continue-to-reside-in-Canada requirement.

Discussion about these aspects can be confusing if certain distinctions are blurred.

What has been traditionally known as the residency requirement for citizenship, is now a strict physical presence requirement, and will continue to be such if Bill C-6 is adopted (but for different duration, 3/5 rather than 4/6); even when it was a residency requirement (three years resident in Canada), the primary test was also based on physical presence (3/4 rule).

The PR Residency Obligation (2/5) is totally separate, except to be qualified for citizenship the applicant must have valid PR status and not be subject to a Removal or Departure Order, so the applicant for citizenship who leaves Canada after applying for citizenship must nonetheless be sure to remain in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation right up to the time of taking the oath (as observed by others above).

The latter was true under the 3/4 residency rule, is true under the 4/6 presence rule, and will continue to be true if the proposed 3/5 presence rule is adopted.

For citizenship presence requirements, only a very narrow class of individuals get credit toward presence in Canada while outside Canada.

For the PR RO, there are exceptions for PRs accompanying a Canadian citizen partner (in a qualified relationship) and a more limited one for PRs on temporary assignment abroad for a Canadian business. These exceptions do not apply toward meeting the citizenship presence requirements. But they nonetheless do count toward the citizenship-applicant continuing to be in compliance with the PR RO.

Thus, the answer to one aspect of the OP's query is that is yes, a PR abroad accompanying a Canadian citizen partner (cohabiting in qualified relationship) is entitled to credit toward being in compliance with the PR RO, and thus remains qualified (as a PR with valid PR status) despite being abroad while the application is in process.


The intent-to-reside aspect:

The other aspect of the OP's query (as I read it) is about any effect removing the intent-to-reside will have.

This tends to slip into more muddy waters since the intent-to-reside provision invariably invites discussion of policies or practices intended to discourage or preclude granting citizenship to those who are seeking a so-called passport of convenience or who have sometimes been described as applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport.

To be clear:

-- no provision, under the old law, the current law, or the proposed law, specifically disqualifies any applicant on the grounds he or she is seeking a passport of convenience

-- no provision, under the old law, the current law, or the proposed law, specifically disqualifies any applicant on the grounds he or she applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport

-- seeking a passport of convenience or applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport has NO direct effect in the calculation of presence (whether the relevant period is that currently prescribed, 6 years, or was the 4 years under the old law, or the 5 years as it will be if the proposed changes take effect)

However, under the old law (3/4 rule), at least while Diane Finley, Jason Kenney, and Chris Alexander were the Ministers of CIC, CIC scrutinized applicants for indications they were seeking a so-called passport of convenience or perceived to be applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport, and tended to target these applicants for RQ, elevated skepticism, and sometimes long delays (which some perceived to be deliberate efforts to allow the applicant to fall into breach of the PR RO before the process was completed). So there was NO overt disqualification related to seeking a passport of convenience or applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport, but CIC did plenty to discourage or obstruct the path to citizenship for such persons.

Technically the adoption of the intent-to-reside requirement did not change the above substantively, except it was obvious that the Conservatives adopted this requirement in order to give CIC more tools, if not teeth, to better discourage or preclude the path to citizenship for those seeking a passport of convenience or applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport. In particular, under current law the applicant who moves abroad while the application is pending logically cannot have the requisite intent to continue to reside in Canada, since logically a person cannot intend to continue to do something unless he is currently doing that thing (that is, a person cannot logically intend to continue to reside in Canada unless he is currently residing in Canada). Whether or not the current IRCC would pursue enforcement of the intent requirement, under current law, in such a way as to identify those who are residing abroad and move to summarily deny their applications, is unknown. My guess is that it might depend on how blatant the move abroad is, but the current IRCC might only be enforcing the requirement to the extent that the applicant must affirm this intent (it is still required in the citizenship application).

It is perhaps an easy observation that CIC under the Conservatives was far, far more focused on discouraging if not overtly obstructing those seeking a passport of convenience or applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport, and that under Minister McCallum's leadership IRCC is, perhaps, not so concerned about this issue.

I would not interpret this, however, to signal a license to apply-on-the-way-to-the-airport or otherwise boldly and blatantly be seeking a passport of convenience.

Again, technically neither of these directly disqualifies the applicant. It has long been about the extent to which the government screens and scrutinizes and imposes questionnaires and otherwise demands proof sufficient to show physical presence. And the extent to which the appearance of seeking a passport of convenience or applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport might elevate that scrutiny.

Which leads back to an observation I have repeated a few times: the initial introduction of screening designed to identify applicants living abroad while the application is pending was done under Liberal leadership back in 2005. There was nothing then which disqualified an applicant due to living abroad. Living abroad could not figure into the calculation of physical presence during the relevant four years. But it was nonetheless identified then, by CIC under Liberal leadership, as a reason-to-question-residency, meaning as a reason to issue RQ and potentially require a hearing with a Citizenship Judge.

Thus, this has mostly been a long way of saying: just because nothing specifically prohibits a person from seeking a passport of convenience or applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport does not mean such applicants will not be subject to elevated scrutiny and more strict demands of proof, regardless of the new law. I doubt that Minister McCallum means to signal that Canada welcomes those who are seeking a passport of convenience or applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport. Rather, the current government's objective is to eliminate unnecessary and unfair burdens imposed on qualified PRs, and better facilitate the path to citizenship for those who are qualified and deserving. I would guess that those who attempt to take undeserving advantage of this do so at some risk.

In the meantime, there is nothing in the proposed law which will mitigate the currently fairly harsh provisions and policies regarding abandonment, so that is one of the ways in which those who move abroad could face risks, if they fail to timely respond to requests or to appear when scheduled. Under current policy (which appears to be continuing despite change in government), missing the test twice or missing the oath once due to being abroad typically results in terminating the application as deemed to be abandoned.
 

ZingyDNA

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No. I was saying with the new law you have to maintain citizenship RO after you submit the application, before you become a citizen. After you take the oath and become a citizen, you can go wherever you want.

cooldoc80 said:
ZNGYDNA

Are you saying that although liberals will remove the intent to residen , we still have to maintain 3 years of presence in canada even if somone leave after oath ?

lets say somone got pr and stayed for three years continously and done the oath , does this mean he can leave canada for only 2 years because if he stay longer he wont be eligible becoz he dont satisfy the 4/5 rule ?
 

cooldoc80

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ZingyDNA said:
No. I was saying with the new law you have to maintain citizenship RO after you submit the application, before you become a citizen. After you take the oath and become a citizen, you can go wherever you want.
thanks

Do you know anybody who done this ! from all what i read and hear it seems that if a person applies and leave he would be subjected to RQ for sure
 

anon123

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ZingyDNA said:
My understanding is you have to maintain the citizenship RO, which is 3 out of 5 years in the proposed new law, while your citizenship application is in process. Also the proposed new law will remove the "Intent to reside" clause. So in a sense, you CAN apply on the way to the airport, as long as you come back in 2 years (or less, depending on your physical presence in Canada before the application), if your application hasn't been finished by then.
This was also my understanding but after rereading the proposed changes I see that it's not the case. The law states:

Proposed Amendments: Physical presence for 3 out of 5 years before the date of application
Consider an applicant who landed on January 1, 2012 and as of January 1, 2017 has 1,095 days of physical presence and 730 days absence where the 730 days fall in the first two years of the five year period. The applicant applies on January 2, 2017 and the same day leaves Canada. On January 3, 2017 this applicant no longer satisfies the physical presence for citizenship because the five year window has shifted with one day and now the applicant has 1,094 days presence and 731 days absence. However, this understanding is WRONG because the window for citizenship RO is based on the date of application and NOT on the current date.

If the same applicant stays outside of Canada for 5 years after applying for citizenship and never goes back, but manages to keep his/her PR RO through a spouse, then the applicant is still eligible for citizenship (and can file Mandamus I assume?) even if the applicant has 0 days of physical presence in the past five years (but had at least 1,095 days at the time of application five years ago).
 

wamfeo

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Dec 19, 2012
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I AM PRETTY SURE THE ROLL BACK TO 3/5 YEARS FOR CITIZENSHIP RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT WILL GO INTO EFFECT AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE ROYAL ASCENT. THIS IS BECAUSE THE MINISTER HIMSELF SAID IN THE CITIZENSHIP ACT THAT IT REQUIRES ONLY THE THE NOD OF COUNCIL IN GENERAL WHO IS APPOINTED BY THE LIBERAL MAJORITY. SO COOL MAN DO NOT PANIC. THE RULE IS SURE TO COME INTO EFFECT END OF JUNE OR BEGINNING OF JULY OR THE LATEST WOULD BE IN NOVEMBER. AM REALLY POSITIVE ABOUT IT.

I ALSO WROTE A LETTER TO THE MINISTER THANKING HIM. AS SOMEONE SAID LIBERALS ARE POISED TO WIN THE NEXT ELECTIONS TOO BECAUSE OF OVERWHELMING NEW IMMIGRANTS GETTING CITIZENSHIP WILL VOTE FOR THEM.

WAMFEO
 

spyfy

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wamfeo said:
I AM PRETTY SURE THE ROLL BACK TO 3/5 YEARS FOR CITIZENSHIP RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT WILL GO INTO EFFECT AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE ROYAL ASCENT. THIS IS BECAUSE THE MINISTER HIMSELF SAID IN THE CITIZENSHIP ACT THAT IT REQUIRES ONLY THE THE NOD OF COUNCIL IN GENERAL WHO IS APPOINTED BY THE LIBERAL MAJORITY. SO COOL MAN DO NOT PANIC. THE RULE IS SURE TO COME INTO EFFECT END OF JUNE OR BEGINNING OF JULY OR THE LATEST WOULD BE IN NOVEMBER. AM REALLY POSITIVE ABOUT IT.

I ALSO WROTE A LETTER TO THE MINISTER THANKING HIM. AS SOMEONE SAID LIBERALS ARE POISED TO WIN THE NEXT ELECTIONS TOO BECAUSE OF OVERWHELMING NEW IMMIGRANTS GETTING CITIZENSHIP WILL VOTE FOR THEM.

WAMFEO
Please do not write in all caps. It is considered very rude by all netiquette standards.

Also this is wrong. The Citizenship Act is a Canadian federal law. Only a Canadian federal law can change a Canadian federal law. That means, the bill has to pass the House of Commons (that's the major step), then pass the Senate (that is a routine step in many cases, but doesn't need to be) and then get Royal Assent by the Governor General (which is a formal step, since Royal Assent is granted in 99.99999999% of cases without questions asked). Many parts of bill C-6 do not come into force by the date of royal assent but at a later date as determined by the government. So Step 1 is the usual parliamentary process including Royal Assent. Then, Step 2 is that the Minister can choose some of the dates when things come into force.

It is likely that the bill will get Royal Assent some time this year. That doesn't mean however that the new rules are implemented right after. That might take some extra time. It might happen this year or it might not. Nobody on this forum can claim to predict that date. If they do claim that they can, they are either lying or have no idea how lawmaking works.
 

links18

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dpenabill said:
Technically the adoption of the intent-to-reside requirement did not change the above substantively, except it was obvious that the Conservatives adopted this requirement in order to give CIC more tools, if not teeth, to better discourage or preclude the path to citizenship for those seeking a passport of convenience or applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport. In particular, under current law the applicant who moves abroad while the application is pending logically cannot have the requisite intent to continue to reside in Canada, since logically a person cannot intend to continue to do something unless he is currently doing that thing (that is, a person cannot logically intend to continue to reside in Canada unless he is currently residing in Canada). Whether or not the current IRCC would pursue enforcement of the intent requirement, under current law, in such a way as to identify those who are residing abroad and move to summarily deny their applications, is unknown. My guess is that it might depend on how blatant the move abroad is, but the current IRCC might only be enforcing the requirement to the extent that the applicant must affirm this intent (it is still required in the citizenship application).
That's interesting, because with the move to a strict physical presence requirement one could argue that there really is no requirement to be resident in Canada at all (under various meanings of the term) in order to qualify for citizenship. For example, it might be possible to meet the physical presence requirements, yet never be a Canadian tax resident under various tax treaties and thus never have to file a Canadian tax return. This is similar to how it is possible to fulfill one's PR "residency obligations" while having a permanent principal residence somewhere else. Everyone thought the Cons were fixing the great ambiguity that surrounded the interpretation of "residence" in the Citizenship Act, but they just smuggled it in the back door with the ridiculous intent to reside clause. I am glad it is going......
 

dpenabill

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links18 said:
That's interesting, because with the move to a strict physical presence requirement one could argue that there really is no requirement to be resident in Canada at all (under various meanings of the term) in order to qualify for citizenship. For example, it might be possible to meet the physical presence requirements, yet never be a Canadian tax resident under various tax treaties and thus never have to file a Canadian tax return. This is similar to how it is possible to fulfill one's PR "residency obligations" while having a permanent principal residence somewhere else. Everyone thought the Cons were fixing the great ambiguity that surrounded the interpretation of "residence" in the Citizenship Act, but they just smuggled it in the back door with the ridiculous intent to reside clause. I am glad it is going......
The total duration of physical presence under the 4/6 rule practically precludes this in all but highly unusual circumstances. Note that while highly unusual circumstances are rare, they happen. Under the old resident-in-Canada-three-years there were, indeed, rare instances in which applicants had spent less than half their time in Canada and yet were granted citizenship.

The 3/5 rule, if adopted, and particularly in the absence of an intent to reside requirement, opens the door wider.

But how even the 4/6 rule is ultimately interpreted in the vast range of possible scenarios would take many years to even approach a complete interpretation for every conceivable situation, let alone how long it will be before a rule that has yet to be even adopted.

Remember, after more than three decades of case law interpreting the old 3/4 rule, in 2011 then Federal Court Justice Rennie initiated yet another variation in interpretation. While future judicial interpretation should not get so tangled and bogged down as this, now that there is an avenue for review of Federal Court decisions by the Court of Appeal, this nonetheless illustrates how complex the actual interpretation and application of law can be -- it is extremely difficult to anticipate and account for all the highly variable situations which are likely to occur let alone all those which possibly might occur. The law is dynamic, living, not static, not fixed.



Otherwise. as noted by others, but for emphasis:

To become law, Bill C-6 must be adopted by Parliament and be given Royal Assent. The 3/5 rule cannot, will not, be implemented until AFTER this happens.

And it will indeed be later, after Royal Assent, as the Governor in Council, sometime AFTER Bill C-6 receives Royal Assent then will determine the date which the 3/5 rule will come into force.

I am avoiding the office pool bet regarding when the 3/5 rule will come into force, nonetheless it is all but certain it will be at least some months after Bill C-6 receives Royal Assent.
 

links18

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dpenabill said:
The total duration of physical presence under the 4/6 rule practically precludes this in all but highly unusual circumstances. Note that while highly unusual circumstances are rare, they happen. Under the old resident-in-Canada-three-years there were, indeed, rare instances in which applicants had spent less than half their time in Canada and yet were granted citizenship.

The 3/5 rule, if adopted, and particularly in the absence of an intent to reside requirement, opens the door wider.

But how even the 4/6 rule is ultimately interpreted in the vast range of possible scenarios would take many years to even approach a complete interpretation for every conceivable situation, let alone how long it will be before a rule that has yet to be even adopted.
Yes, practically difficult--but not impossible, such as in the case of a cross border commuter. My point though is that the intent to reside clause would seem to require you to continue to do something that there was really no requirement to do in the first place--reside in Canada (under certain definitions of "reside").