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Big delay on citizenship application

adamsands25

Hero Member
Dec 15, 2013
325
26
Category........
Visa Office......
NDVO transferred to Colombo
NOC Code......
0015
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
24-09-14
Nomination.....
08-01-15
AOR Received.
02-03-15
Med's Request
29-04-15
Med's Done....
10-05-15
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
28-05-15
VISA ISSUED...
02-06-15
LANDED..........
08-07-15

Xenon21

Full Member
Jun 17, 2023
25
8
While it is difficult to sort out actual causation of delays in processing a particular application, there is a known correlation between IRCC's perception that a citizenship applicant has relocated abroad, or is outside Canada for an extended period of time comparable to residing outside Canada, and an increased risk of delays relative to other applicants applying at the same time and being processed in the same local office. Even though taking the test while outside Canada does not necessarily mean the PR is living abroad, odds are this sometimes triggers the perception the applicant has relocated abroad, in turn triggering elevated scrutiny, which may be about verifying physical presence or clearing prohibitions, or both, leading to delays. Again, it is difficult to say that is what explains why YOUR application is proceeding more slowly, but it is, as one might say, among the usual suspects.

If so, this would be another sign that pursuing mandamus relief at this juncture is NOT likely to resolve issues arising from the need to travel after PR card expires later this year.

Hopefully you are nearing the end of the process and will be scheduled for the oath soon. In the meantime, however, there is no guarantee that will happen (probably good chance, but far shy of a sure bet), so unless you can travel via the U.S. to return to Canada, you will be relying on obtaining a PR TD if you are abroad after your PR card card expires and you have not been delivered a new one. Best to orient your decision making accordingly.



Let's try to be honest, and focus on what is known, in particular on information that will help PRs applying for citizenship make decisions, decisions like IF and WHEN it might be efficacious to invest in pursuing mandamus relief.

Mandamus and a Limited Time Offer for a Career Opportunity:

If a career opportunity dependent on having a Canadian passport opens with only a narrow window in time to take advantage of it, electing then to pursue mandamus relief is not likely to save the day. Mandamus relief is not quick relief.

While some may report that filing for mandamus has generated an "immediate" response, there is a preliminary procedural process that MUST be followed in order to even file an action for mandamus relief, and that takes time. Moreover, if IRCC has not already taken action to approve the application and schedule the oath during the preliminary procedure that must precede filing an application for the writ, and the PR is actually filing, in the Federal Court, an action seeking the writ of mandamus, the odds are very high that the process leading to a FC hearing alone will take many months and quite likely a year or more; moreover, those who are deciding whether to file a mandamus action in the FC, based on delayed processing, should be aware that very, very few of these are successful.

So that reporting, as to immediate relief, is either malarkey, or is at best hyperbolic and actually about getting a positive response from IRCC in response to the initial step in pursuing mandamus-relief (the demand notice). Even as to the latter, which clearly is the practical objective in hiring a lawyer with the hope (emphasis on hope) that will accelerate the time remaining to taking the oath, there is little reliable reporting demonstrating it succeeds in leading to the oath very much sooner except, perhaps, for a FEW applicants. Moreover, in the best case scenario with the fastest timeline (which most applicants will not have), even this will take a significant amount of time. Even in these best case scenarios, many times the applicant will still be unable to anticipate, with any confidence, when they will actually be scheduled for the oath, be that in the coming weeks or so (more likely months).

Neither quick enough nor reliable enough, with some roll of the dice or otherwise unusual exceptions, to take advantage of a sudden, limited time career opportunity.

Other Scenarios; OP's Situation in Particular:

For the OP here, PR card expiring in October and apprehending a need to travel internationally in October, there is no better than a remote chance that a lawyer-submitted demand as a preliminary step in pursuing mandamus relief will save the day. Hopefully a PR card application ($50 fee, a little or so less than 10 grand) will.

For sure, if it were to go beyond the demand stage, for the OP there is virtually no chance that an application to the Federal Court seeking the grant of mandamus will result in obtaining a Canadian passport by October. In the meantime it is possible (and given the timeline perhaps probable) the OP will be scheduled for the oath in time to obtain a Canadian passport by October, anyway, but given the amount of time it takes to pursue mandamus relief, unless it is IRCC that decides (prior to any Court order) to proceed to complete the process and schedule the oath, a Federal Court action will not get the OP there. It could easily take a year for the Federal Court to even hear and decide the case.

Addressing IRCC's Dismal Timeline Performance Generally:

The impact of IRCC's notoriously and dismally slow processing, which far too many suffer, warrants a concerted overt effort to not just encourage but compel improvement. However, mandamus is not the remedy for this. Appropriate advocacy regarding this issue (but ranging widely in efficacy) is discussed in many topics here.

Distinguishing Availability of Mandamus Relief on Other Grounds:

There are other situations involving citizenship applications in which the prospective availability of mandamus relief is an important remedy. It can make the difference between getting the grant of citizenship or being denied. Who, why, and when, is a broad and complex subject, DIFFERENT from, DISTINGUISHABLE from employing the mandamus procedure in an effort to accelerate an otherwise no-question-qualified applicant's timeline to taking the oath.

Make no mistake: the accelerated timeline to taking the oath by a no-issues, clearly-qualified applicant is about prodding IRCC to decide to act sooner, prodded by what many would describe as a threat of legal action. Success in this regard is all about persuading IRCC to act sooner than it would have, toward approving the application and scheduling the oath sooner; this is not about compelling IRCC. And it will NOT work unless the applicant is among those who have no issues (no lingering questions about physical presence for example) and is clearly-qualified . . . that is, it will not work unless the application is already very close to completion anyway.

Stated from the other direction: If the application is not already in a ready-to-schedule-oath condition, that is if there are issues or questions IRCC still has, the applicant is probably looking at a significantly longer timeline DESPITE a demand made by a lawyer.

Otherwise, if IRCC is not persuaded to proceed sooner based on the demand, the timeline ahead will NOT be short, and indeed it could go long. If things reach the stage where an actual action in the FC is filed, seeking the writ, the odds are there is a long road ahead.


Reminder:

Finally, a reminder, there is NO mandamus available to compel IRCC to process a citizenship application within any particular time period, definitely NOT within what many would categorize as a "reasonable amount of time."

At the least, to be grounds for mandamus relief the unreasonableness of the delay in the current stage of processing must generally be such as to more or less, in its effect, be a refusal to process the application and a breach of procedural fairness. A very high bar. High enough bar one that one does not see many, no where near many, cases in which the Writ is actually granted for a delay in processing a citizenship application. While the amount of time is an important factor, time is NOT dispositive.

The hope, again emphasis on it being "hope," is that a lawyer's demand will prompt IRCC to choose to proceed sooner. And for more than a few that likely succeeds, relatively, as in not necessarily all that quickly and not necessarily a whole lot sooner.
When I did the test, I said that I was performing the test inside of Canada which is what the IRCC representative told me to do due to system changes. I was on vacation for a couple of weeks when they scheduled my test. However you’re right. When I emailed them to inform them, they may have already flagged it up as being outside of Canada. This is very unfair to cause delays as they can check that the applicant is working inside of Canada! Surely they can check that the applicant has been working for 3 years?
 
Last edited:

Xenon21

Full Member
Jun 17, 2023
25
8
Seems that is the trend. Ppl giving tests from abroad are seeing their applications delayed
My part of my vacation was spoiled due to having to study for the test and perform it. And yet they punish us for fitting in the test while on a vacation we had pre-booked as cannot really reschedule the test
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,307
3,067
It warrants emphasizing: UNLESS you apprehend IRCC actually has some concern, a substantive issue, about your qualifications for the grant of citizenship, you could get notice of the oath anytime now, anytime, and the probability is that it will happen in the coming weeks.

Unfortunately, it might not. No guarantees. So, again, plan accordingly.

When I did the test, I said that I was performing the test inside of Canada which is what the IRCC representative told me to do due to system changes. I was on vacation for a couple of weeks when they scheduled my test. However you’re right. When I emailed them to inform them, they may have already flagged it up as being outside of Canada. This is very unfair to cause delays as they can check that the applicant is working inside of Canada! Surely they can check that the applicant has been working for 3 years?
Sorry, I took the "yes" response to the question by @adamsands25, "Did you give your test from outside Canada?" to mean you were outside Canada when you took the test.

It warrants noting with emphasis there is no way to know if informing them you were outside Canada has caused the delay in your case. Even if you actually took the test while outside Canada, that does NOT necessarily mean that is why your application has taken as long as it has.

Therein lies much of the confusion, since many applicants actually living outside Canada after applying do NOT encounter non-routine delays in processing time. Many do. Many do not. Reporting is not sufficient to know which is more often, but it is sufficient to see that many more of those outside Canada, compared to those remaining in Canada, tend to encounter delays and non-routine processing. So, as I previously said, if there are indications you might be located outside Canada after applying, that is one of the "usual suspects" for causing delay. And if this is a factor in the particular applicant's case, that will most likely preclude an easy, quick response to a lawyer's demand (relating to mandamus relief) leading to scheduling the oath soon.

Otherwise, there is a wide, wide range of potential reasons why a particular applicant's timeline is slower than others who applied around the same time and who are being processed in the same local office. In terms of what triggers non-routine processing, we know many of the, again, "usual suspects" (a big one is any significant discrepancy in travel history reported by the applicant versus what IRCC discerns from other sources, including the CBSA travel history; another is the application made with very little buffer over the margin in conjunction with factors like questions about employment or address history; among many more). For those affected, there typically is not much that can be done to accelerate, let alone expedite processing.

Note: Applications subject to RQ-related or prohibition-related non-routine processing will have very low odds of accelerating the timeline by pursuing mandamus relief. As noted before, repeatedly, for those seeking to accelerate the timeline by hiring a lawyer to pursue mandamus relief, a chance of successfully doing so depends on the application ALREADY in a posture that is VERY CLOSE to completion anyway.

And yet they punish us for fitting in the test while on a vacation we had pre-booked as cannot really reschedule the test
While it feels like punishment, if IRCC has increased screening of an application leading to delays (be that triggered by perception the PR has relocated abroad or other reason), that is not to impose any sort of penalty but, rather, to address whatever questions or concerns the Processing Agent and/or the responsible Citizenship Officer has.

It is a little complicated, and largely an unnecessary distraction (which too often triggers hostile controversy in discussions here), how and why IRCC might have elevated concerns regarding applicants perceived to have relocated outside Canada, but the gist of it is that this can trigger questions related to proof of meeting the actual physical presence requirement or questions related to clearing the prohibitions. Thus some delay. Many disagree this should happen, but for purposes of navigating the system and making informed decisions, it does happen . . . not always, not uniformly, and this is not particularly predictable . . . but it is how it goes for many.


My part of my vacation was spoiled due to having to study for the test and perform it.
Yeah, given how short advance notice of the test event can be, and it can be the same regarding the oath (I had less than a week's notice of my interview, to be followed by the oath just two days later), it can very much feel like one needs to put a significant portion of their life on hold pending IRCC's processing of the citizenship application. This is indeed severely aggravated when the processing timeline exceeds ten months to a year, as it has, and by a lot, for most of those applying during the last four years. This, IRCC's dismal timeline performance, is a big part of why the slow processing timelines need to be addressed and improved. A broad subject which obviously will not bring any relief to your particular situation.
 

Stika

Star Member
Aug 18, 2018
67
32
In Ottawa, there is a significant lag time between Background check completed and getting a test invite. I don’t understand it. What process could be going on in between? It’s almost like a standstill in Ottawa.
 

forw.jane

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2019
5,872
2,433
In Ottawa, there is a significant lag time between Background check completed and getting a test invite. I don’t understand it. What process could be going on in between? It’s almost like a standstill in Ottawa.
They are a pretty slow moving office.
 
Jan 21, 2021
17
3
AOR: March 2022. Test Completed: November 2022. LPP - all in-progress since November 2022. My PR expires next month (September 2023). So sad to be waiting this long. My application should be straight-forward. Have been living in Canada since 17. I got ghost update on Aug 3, 2023 but no update since then. Starting to lose hope now, seems to be pure luck. I know many friends who got everything within 6 months, they applied after I Completed my Test

Is it possible to cancel my Application and re-apply again, maybe I'll have better luck on a fresh start.

@Xenon21 Did you get the invitation?
 
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forw.jane

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2019
5,872
2,433
AOR: March 2022. Test Completed: November 2022. LPP - all in-progress since November 2022. My PR expires next month (September 2023). So sad to be waiting this long. My application should be straight-forward. Have been living in Canada since 17. I got ghost update on Aug 3, 2023 but no update since then. Starting to lose hope now, seems to be pure luck. I know many friends who got everything within 6 months, they applied after I Completed my Test

Is it possible to cancel my Application and re-apply again, maybe I'll have better luck on a fresh start.

@Xenon21 Did you get the invitation?
You will lose the fees. With the new application you could encounter the same issue which is holding your current application. As the system doesn't have transparency guessing if the issue is with a lazy officer or some real issues holding it, making effort on the current one makes sense.
 

bas12

Hero Member
Apr 20, 2018
369
121
AOR: March 2022. Test Completed: November 2022. LPP - all in-progress since November 2022. My PR expires next month (September 2023). So sad to be waiting this long. My application should be straight-forward. Have been living in Canada since 17. I got ghost update on Aug 3, 2023 but no update since then. Starting to lose hope now, seems to be pure luck. I know many friends who got everything within 6 months, they applied after I Completed my Test

Is it possible to cancel my Application and re-apply again, maybe I'll have better luck on a fresh start.

@Xenon21 Did you get the invitation?
It is definitely possible to withdraw the application and reapply. I saw a lot of these on this forum when online applications were being processed much slower than paper. There is some trickiness involved with making sure that the original application is fully withdrawn before reapplying, and/or reusing the application fee for the new application, I can't really remember these details anymore.

I also considered this, but in the end I decided not to do it.
My main reason was that If I reapply, the processing time counter starts from scratch, so I would not be able to start mandamus for 18 more months.
It is difficult to say if IRCC is going to apply more scrutiny to repeat applications or not. It is also hard to predict if the new application will go faster, or if it will also get stuck for years. So, hard to advise here. Maybe some people who had success with this will chime in.
 
Jan 21, 2021
17
3
It is definitely possible to withdraw the application and reapply. I saw a lot of these on this forum when online applications were being processed much slower than paper. There is some trickiness involved with making sure that the original application is fully withdrawn before reapplying, and/or reusing the application fee for the new application, I can't really remember these details anymore.

I also considered this, but in the end I decided not to do it.
My main reason was that If I reapply, the processing time counter starts from scratch, so I would not be able to start mandamus for 18 more months.
It is difficult to say if IRCC is going to apply more scrutiny to repeat applications or not. It is also hard to predict if the new application will go faster, or if it will also get stuck for years. So, hard to advise here. Maybe some people who had success with this will chime in.
Thanks for the thoughts, you points are absolutely valid. This is much like playing the Roulette - You never know what's going to happen next.

You filed a mandamus, I wonder if it was just a coincidence or a real effect of it since your dates are very close between filing and the update in the application. I am considering mandamus - Can this process be done solely by us or one must have a lawyer to do it.
 

Xenon21

Full Member
Jun 17, 2023
25
8
AOR: March 2022. Test Completed: November 2022. LPP - all in-progress since November 2022. My PR expires next month (September 2023). So sad to be waiting this long. My application should be straight-forward. Have been living in Canada since 17. I got ghost update on Aug 3, 2023 but no update since then. Starting to lose hope now, seems to be pure luck. I know many friends who got everything within 6 months, they applied after I Completed my Test

Is it possible to cancel my Application and re-apply again, maybe I'll have better luck on a fresh start.

@Xenon21 Did you get the invitation?
No change on mine. And after hearing your story I am very worried. Application received by them on March 7th. September 7th will be 18 months. At that point what would be my next steps?
 

bas12

Hero Member
Apr 20, 2018
369
121
Thanks for the thoughts, you points are absolutely valid. This is much like playing the Roulette - You never know what's going to happen next.

You filed a mandamus, I wonder if it was just a coincidence or a real effect of it since your dates are very close between filing and the update in the application. I am considering mandamus - Can this process be done solely by us or one must have a lawyer to do it.
My impression is that it definitely helped a lot, considering all the coincidences, and comparing to other people's timelines for scheduling oath after LPP.

There was someone on this forum who did the first stage of mandamus on their own, and they were lucky enough that IRCC finalized the application within a month. From what I heard, if things proceed to further stages, at some point you will need a lawyer, and it might not be cheaper than having one from the start.
There are also rumors that IRCC is overwhelmed enough at this point that it is now very rarely reacting to the first stage.

Though I am far from being an authority on any of this, I decided to pay the law firm so that I would not have to learn anything about any of that myself :)
 

Xenon21

Full Member
Jun 17, 2023
25
8
The current processing time is “apparently” 18 months for citizenship grant. On September 7th it will be 18 months since they recruited my application. And there is still no update on my application. Language skills, physical presence and prohibitions are STILL in progress.
After the 18 months have started, what are my next steps? I didn’t proceed with MP who just said to email explaining why I needed the application processed urgently. But after 18 months it will be overdue and my PR will be expired and I am predicting no movement. Aside from contacting the MP again, what else can I do? There is no reason my application should be delayed and the notes didn’t say anything about it too.
Thanks. So frustrating and helpless!
 

bas12

Hero Member
Apr 20, 2018
369
121
The current processing time is “apparently” 18 months for citizenship grant. On September 7th it will be 18 months since they recruited my application. And there is still no update on my application. Language skills, physical presence and prohibitions are STILL in progress.
After the 18 months have started, what are my next steps? I didn’t proceed with MP who just said to email explaining why I needed the application processed urgently. But after 18 months it will be overdue and my PR will be expired and I am predicting no movement. Aside from contacting the MP again, what else can I do? There is no reason my application should be delayed and the notes didn’t say anything about it too.
Thanks. So frustrating and helpless!
There are lots of things you can do, but most of them had zero effect for me personally. They did help some other folks though, so the only downside of trying them is that it is incredibly painful to talk to IRCC.
You can call IRCC, send webforms, communicate with them through MP.
Maybe you can find a good enough reason for urgent processing? If not, I guess uncertainty and inability to plan causes a lot of stress for many people for various reasons, to the point of some of them needing medical help. By the way, if that happens, it is best to document everything.

On the side of activism, some folks wanted to protest in Ottawa or in front of their local IRCC office, were thinking of involving press, and there was a petition going around for finalizing old citizenship applications.

If you were planning to file mandamus, you can skip most of this stuff, except you need to have asked IRCC to finalize your application in writing. Usually, it is enough to send a webform inquiring about the status of your application. There is also something called "balance of convenience", for which the law firm asked me to write how the delay affected me and my family in other ways than uncertainty. Not sure how important that really is, and what they would do if I wouldn't come up with anything. I think uncertainty can be pretty bad already.
 
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Xenon21

Full Member
Jun 17, 2023
25
8
There are lots of things you can do, but most of them had zero effect for me personally. They did help some other folks though, so the only downside of trying them is that it is incredibly painful to talk to IRCC.
You can call IRCC, send webforms, communicate with them through MP.
Maybe you can find a good enough reason for urgent processing? If not, I guess uncertainty and inability to plan causes a lot of stress for many people for various reasons, to the point of some of them needing medical help. By the way, if that happens, it is best to document everything.

On the side of activism, some folks wanted to protest in Ottawa or in front of their local IRCC office, were thinking of involving press, and there was a petition going around for finalizing old citizenship applications.

If you were planning to file mandamus, you can skip most of this stuff, except you need to have asked IRCC to finalize your application in writing. Usually, it is enough to send a webform inquiring about the status of your application. There is also something called "balance of convenience", for which the law firm asked me to write how the delay affected me and my family in other ways than uncertainty. Not sure how important that really is, and what they would do if I wouldn't come up with anything. I think uncertainty can be pretty bad already.
My main concern is that my PR is expiring October 9th, 19 months after they received my application. If an emergency happens I will not be able to travel outside of the country (my immediate family live in England)