Bad situation to be in - how honest before it get's you into trouble?

[anthony61]

Okay thanks for listening. I have been in a relationship, now married to a Filipina for 2 years. She is 47. When she was 17, her mother sent her out of the country to work as a prostitute (this was through an "agency". Her mother and this man arranged for a passport using another persons birth certificate. My wife, who thankfully was not forced into prostitution but worked for the man for 10 years as a housekeeper, lived in Australia under the other name. After 10 years she went back home. She never got caught.

Years later she had a passport in her own name, and has travelled and worked legally in two other countries.

As I read the application spousal sponsorship forms, of course it scares the heck out of me. I want to be honest about her past, but I have been told if I do that, Immigration Canada will ban her and I will never be able to sponsor her.

Any recommendations or experiences?

 

[screech339]

To be honest, I'm not sure how to respond to your situation. The sponsorship forms calls for sponsored applicant full history going back to when she is 18 years old.

Since your wife has basically committed fraud by working under an assumed name for 10 years in Australia that she is probably illegal in to begin with.

You are in a bind. I think your best bet is to consult a good immigration lawyer and explain the whole situation with your wife's history and what are the chances of succeeding the sponsorship application.

Screech339

 

[zardoz]

Actually, IMM5669E Q8 asks for since 18 OR the last 10 years, whichever is the most recent. It's only a few visa offices that reinterpreted this to "from 18 always".

 

[on-hold]

I've lived in rural Thailand for many years, and can only say that when it comes to international labour, the rules and regulations are stacked against people like your wife -- they are treated like a resource to be exploited, and also held criminally responsible to boot. Yes, this is what they choose to do, but the people who condemn them for that usually don't grow up in a system where they have no legal choices. There are three ways that I would look at this:

1) actually working illegally in Australia won't affect your wife's application, to my knowledge; Canada doesn't care about immigration violations in other countries. You can apply from America, for example, if you are illegal there. Also, immigration violations are normally civil violations, not criminal.

2) Not sure about the fraud of using another passport -- that is what you will have to look into.

3) Why bring it up? Because usually telling the truth is easier -- if you don't, you are going to have to make up 10 years of your wife's life on the application form. Thirty years have passed -- unless the system we live in has abandoned all manner of grace and mercy, it will look benignly at what a 17-year-old was sent to do. Talk to a Canadian lawyer, and if they think they can succeed with your wife's case, ask them for an example of case law in which a similar situation was approved.

 

[Rob_TO]

Okay thanks for listening. I have been in a relationship, now married to a Filipina for 2 years. She is 47. When she was 17, her mother sent her out of the country to work as a prostitute (this was through an "agency". Her mother and this man arranged for a passport using another persons birth certificate. My wife, who thankfully was not forced into prostitution but worked for the man for 10 years as a housekeeper, lived in Australia under the other name. After 10 years she went back home. She never got caught.

Years later she had a passport in her own name, and has travelled and worked legally in two other countries.

As I read the application spousal sponsorship forms, of course it scares the heck out of me. I want to be honest about her past, but I have been told if I do that, Immigration Canada will ban her and I will never be able to sponsor her.

Any recommendations or experiences?

In my honest opinion, if this was my situation I would most likely not even mention what happened. It was a long time ago, and with someone else's birth certificate/passport, so on paper she never actually left the Phillipinnes during this time. So for all intents and purposes and according to border services entry/exit log or immigration departments of either Philippines or Australia, she was residing in Philippines during that time.
You could be totally open about everything and volunteer what actually happened, but that could open up a whole number of issues to her eligibility or cause long delays in processing.

I'm sure others will have strong opinions for or against this. This is simply my own opinion and is in no way to be considered legal advise or anything. It's up to you how to proceed.

I would also caution when talking to lawyers and be very careful who you deal with, as based on other posters experiences on this site, there are a heck of a lot of very bad lawyers/consultants out there.

 

[margobear96]

Never lie under oath (and that's what you're essentially doing when you sign the application -- which is why even innocuous, unrelated misrepresentations can be used against applicants if a situation turns bad)...that doesn't mean, however, that you need to volunteer information that hasn't been asked for.

Order an Australian police certificate in your wife's real name. Confirm that it says just " no record", not "this person has never entered Australia". Although the forms only require work history for the last 10 years, she'll have to disclose all addresses where she's lived since she was 18 y.o., which will include Australia. No need to say that she was there illegally or that she traveling under false papers. I don't think there's anything else in the application that'll pose a problem for her?

 

[zardoz]

Again, IMM5669E Q12 asks for since 18 OR the last 10 years, whichever is the most recent.

 

[margobear96]

Again, IMM5669E Q12 asks for since 18 OR the last 10 years, whichever is the most recent.

Ah, it was since 18 y.o. when I applied.

 

[on-hold]

I really feel like this is the kind of situation that an Internet forum is not meant to solve -- you don't need a discussion of the rules, but rather examples of similar cases and how they were resolved.

Also, has your wife been to Canada? If she has, then she has likely already signed something that detailed her travel history on a visitor's visa application -- which unfortunately might be a more recent fraud that time would not have erased by this point. I'd consider whether CIC has any recent declarations or not.

 

[zardoz]

This is from the most recent version of form IMM5669E (12-2012).

 

[Pamela Number 1]

I would not disclosed anything at all because it is black and white that you never left Philippine legally. There are good and strong comments from ROB and others which I strongly agreed upon. Don't say anything at all otherwise they will start looking for things you won't be able to provide quickly and in the end they will send you a rejection letter. Canadian immigration are very streaked when it comes to screening process.

 

[Rob_TO]

Again, IMM5669E Q12 asks for since 18 OR the last 10 years, whichever is the most recent.

There have been cases on here, where people have submitted only last 10 years, and the visa office made a request for additional information all the way back to age 18. I can't recall if certain visa offices ask this more than others.

So perhaps it's a good idea to just list the past 10 years in which this won't even be an issue... and just hope they don't ask for entire history to 18 later on in the process!

 

[zardoz]

There have been cases on here, where people have submitted only last 10 years, and the visa office made a request for additional information all the way back to age 18. I can't recall if certain visa offices ask this more than others.

So perhaps it's a good idea to just list the past 10 years in which this won't even be an issue... and just hope they don't ask for entire history to 18 later on in the process!

Been there, done that... Look at my timeline. London are doing this, sometimes, but not for everyone.

 

[screech339]

As for the form IMM5669, for section 8 personal history it does says since 18 or last 10 years. However if you go to section 12: Addresses, it specifically say to list all addresses since 18th birthday. Not last 10 years.

So the OP's wife would have to list all addresses since she was 18 years old.

Screech339

 

[zardoz]

As for the form IMM5669, for section 8 personal history it does says since 18 or last 10 years. However if you go to section 12: Addresses, it specifically say to list all addresses since 18th birthday. Not last 10 years.

So the OP's wife would have to list all addresses since she was 18 years old.

Screech339

What date is on the bottom of each page on that form? This is the latest from the CIC web site. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5669E.pdf It's dated as 12-2012.