Ask to appear on test, still under peace bond period, Does it affect Citizenship

[Bigudi]

Or better yet, instead of praying after the fact, respect your spouse and don't get involved in domestic violence in the first place. No one is guilty until proven so, I understand that, but what really bothers me is that we are talking about this as if it was comparable to getting a parking ticket, and more concerning is that apparently people do get away with it easily and that COs seem to brush it off completely as per Ashiqullah's post.

THANK YOU!!!!

What the hell? If proven guilty these people should be in jail, and not just under a peace bond. And most definitely not getting their citizenship.

I guess people didn't read very well the Discover Canada booklet. Here is an extract from the very first pages of it:

"In Canada, men and women are equal under the law. Canada’s openness and generosity do not extend to barbaric cultural practices that tolerate spousal abuse, “honour killings,” female genital mutilation, forced marriage or other gender-based violence. Those guilty of these crimes are severely punished under Canada’s criminal laws."

 

[Calagry]

Hi I had a domestic violence charge. I took the test in Aug and was told to submit the FP. I did submit FP and got a peace bond for a year so the charges were dropped. My application is still in process. Can anyone share their experiences. Should I withdraw my application and reapply? Is it possible I get a hearing with the judge? I was meeting all other conditions and not short of days.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi I had a domestic violence charge. I took the test in Aug and was told to submit the FP. I did submit FP and got a peace bond for a year so the charges were dropped. My application is still in process. Can anyone share their experiences. Should I withdraw my application and reapply? Is it possible I get a hearing with the judge? I was meeting all other conditions and not short of days.

As discussed in multiple posts above, a lot depends on the particulars in the individual case. If the charges have indeed been fully dismissed, you should be OK, but I am not an expert, and the details matter. See discussion in earlier posts above.

Prohibition decisions are now made by the Minister (practically this means by a Citizenship Officer, the Minister's delegate) and not by a Citizenship Judge. So this particular issue is not one that would lead to a hearing with a judge.

If IRCC perceives there is an applicable prohibition: Before IRCC can deny your application you should be sent a fairness letter specifying the reason for denying the application and giving you an opportunity to respond and to request a hearing (with a Citizenship Officer, not a Citizenship Judge). I am not suggesting this is going to happen, but saying this is the process if in checking your background IRCC apprehends you have a prohibition. If this happens you will need to submit an official copy of the Court record showing that the charge has been fully dismissed. The burden of proof is on you.

Bigudi: before ranting about how this individual should be in jail, note that we do not know the actual facts or circumstances. Canada has a relatively diligent judicial and criminal justice system which determines who should go to jail. It is a decision made on the basis of the rule of law and the facts in the particular case, not mere insinuations. I understand that it remains true that many times domestic violence is inadequately prosecuted, and continues to be a serious problem. And we need to continue to improve our response to these situations. A lot. That, however, still does not reveal the facts and circumstances in any particular case, and we should never judge a particular individual without knowing what the facts and circumstances are. That is, this is not a proper forum for judging people in these situations.

Hopefully the charges are dismissed because they deserve to be dismissed.

 

[Calagry]

Thanks a lot Dpenabill, I just hope I get the oath soon.

 

[zaig]

Hi I had a domestic violence charge. I took the test in Aug and was told to submit the FP. I did submit FP and got a peace bond for a year so the charges were dropped. My application is still in process. Can anyone share their experiences. Should I withdraw my application and reapply? Is it possible I get a hearing with the judge? I was meeting all other conditions and not short of days.

hi how are you .. did you took oath ?

 

[Calagry]

nothing yet.ECAS shows in process still..

 

[zaig]

nothing yet.ECAS shows in process still..

what about finger prints have done your finger prints and did cic recevie result .... i was charged for domestic violence .but in may case crown took stay before trail ..and one year for stay has been passed too .. i dont know what will happen to my case it was a false allegation .

 

[dpenabill]

what about finger prints have done your finger prints and did cic recevie result .... i was charged for domestic violence .but in may case crown took stay before trail ..and one year for stay has been passed too .. i dont know what will happen to my case it was a false allegation .

Best to at least confirm the status of the charges in the court's record.

While there is a procedural presumption of innocence, that is not a presumption of actual innocence, and there is no presumption of actual innocence unless and until there is an acquittal or the charges are dismissed. Thus, for example, PRs who have charges for an indictable offence pending, albeit not yet convicted, are nonetheless prohibited from being granted citizenship.

Any person charged with a crime who asserts actual innocence should obtain the assistance of private legal counsel and, subject to the lawyer's advice (actual innocence might not be enough if there is a strong circumstantial case against the accused, in which case it is the lawyer's job to assist the accused in navigating through the system toward a best-possible-outcome) seek to have the charges dismissed outright, not merely stayed. As long as the charges are pending, that constitutes being a party to a criminal proceeding, which again only entitles the accused to a procedural presumption of innocence, not a presumption of actual innocence.

In other words, describing or categorizing the allegations as false means absolutely nothing in any official or otherwise consequential respect.

In any event, to best assure eligibility for citizenship, make sure the charges are dismissed.

 

[zaig]

Best to at least confirm the status of the charges in the court's record.

While there is a procedural presumption of innocence, that is not a presumption of actual innocence, and there is no presumption of actual innocence unless and until there is an acquittal or the charges are dismissed. Thus, for example, PRs who have charges for an indictable offence pending, albeit not yet convicted, are nonetheless prohibited from being granted citizenship.

Any person charged with a crime who asserts actual innocence should obtain the assistance of private legal counsel and, subject to the lawyer's advice (actual innocence might not be enough if there is a strong circumstantial case against the accused, in which case it is the lawyer's job to assist the accused in navigating through the system toward a best-possible-outcome) seek to have the charges dismissed outright, not merely stayed. As long as the charges are pending, that constitutes being a party to a criminal proceeding, which again only entitles the accused to a procedural presumption of innocence, not a presumption of actual innocence.

In other words, describing or categorizing the allegations as false means absolutely nothing in any official or otherwise consequential respect.

In any event, to best assure eligibility for citizenship, make sure the charges are dismissed.

that means it is a no for me . but court at that time has given me papers to sent an application to rcmp to destroy my finger prints and pictures i was so annoyed that why stay because then i cant prove myself innocent but i have been told i am as innocent as never charged but this is bull sh... system where court because of fear of losing can take stay ...

 

[dpenabill]

that means it is a no for me . but court at that time has given me papers to sent an application to rcmp to destroy my finger prints and pictures i was so annoyed that why stay because then i cant prove myself innocent but i have been told i am as innocent as never charged but this is bull sh... system where court because of fear of losing can take stay ...

I do not know the Canadian criminal justice process very well at all. But I do know that the actual status of charges can vary. I also recognize that many who are accused are confused, under-informed, mis-informed, and otherwise do not have a clear understanding of what they are charged with, why, or the status of the proceedings. Many people think the job of a lawyer who represents those charged with crimes is to get-the-accused-off. That is far, far from the real practical role of a defense lawyer. One of the key roles of the lawyer is to help the accused understand the charge, understand the process, understand his or her rights and the alternatives there are, and to understand the outcome and its consequences. Lawyers are far from perfect, so they often fail to adequately fulfill all aspects of this, but they are nonetheless the best resource the accused has when involved in any criminal proceedings.

This is to say I have no idea what the status of your situation is. A lawyer can explain it far better than I could, and more reliably, by far, than what you can learn in a forum such as this.

My understanding is, again, fairly shallow if not a bit crude, but if the court approves the destruction of fingerprints taken that at least suggests, to me, as you say, it is or will be as if you were never charged, and if the status of the case is such that it is as if you were never charged, my understanding is that is not a prohibition. If there is some further condition before the status will become as-if-never-charged, then (again, my rough understanding) WHEN that happens (could be as simple as the passage of a specified period of time, or it may require a formal application), it will for sure not be a prohibition (as of then). In the meantime, however, again the current status can vary, and again many accused do not have a clear or accurate understanding of the current status of their case, and the best source for getting a clear understanding is a private, personal lawyer.

 

[zaig]

I do not know the Canadian criminal justice process very well at all. But I do know that the actual status of charges can vary. I also recognize that many who are accused are confused, under-informed, mis-informed, and otherwise do not have a clear understanding of what they are charged with, why, or the status of the proceedings. Many people think the job of a lawyer who represents those charged with crimes is to get-the-accused-off. That is far, far from the real practical role of a defense lawyer. One of the key roles of the lawyer is to help the accused understand the charge, understand the process, understand his or her rights and the alternatives there are, and to understand the outcome and its consequences. Lawyers are far from perfect, so they often fail to adequately fulfill all aspects of this, but they are nonetheless the best resource the accused has when involved in any criminal proceedings.

This is to say I have no idea what the status of your situation is. A lawyer can explain it far better than I could, and more reliably, by far, than what you can learn in a forum such as this.

My understanding is, again, fairly shallow if not a bit crude, but if the court approves the destruction of fingerprints taken that at least suggests, to me, as you say, it is or will be as if you were never charged, and if the status of the case is such that it is as if you were never charged, my understanding is that is not a prohibition. If there is some further condition before the status will become as-if-never-charged, then (again, my rough understanding) WHEN that happens (could be as simple as the passage of a specified period of time, or it may require a formal application), it will for sure not be a prohibition (as of then). In the meantime, however, again the current status can vary, and again many accused do not have a clear or accurate understanding of the current status of their case, and the best source for getting a clear understanding is a private, personal lawyer.

thank you so very much lets see what will happen to my case .. i already appeared in test my finger prints are received by cic this week lets see how long they will take ..and will they grant me or not.... thanks for your help

 

[SamGreen]

My friend passed the citizenship test

Right before the citizenship oath
His ex filed peacebond against him
And he went to the ceremony and didn't tell them that his ex filed peacebond against him.

He got his citizenship

And after that when he went to court the peacebond was denied

Did he do wrong by not telling them about the peacebond at the ceremony

It was nothing else only peacebond section 810

And the peacebond was denied in court after

 

[SamGreen]

My friend passed the citizenship test

Right before the citizenship oath
His ex filed peacebond against him
And he went to the ceremony and didn't tell them that his ex filed peacebond against him.

He got his citizenship

And after that when he went to court the peacebond was denied

Did he do wrong by not telling them about the peacebond at the ceremony

It was nothing else only peacebond section 810

And the peacebond was denied in court after

 

[Jason1977]

I do not know the Canadian criminal justice process very well at all. But I do know that the actual status of charges can vary. I also recognize that many who are accused are confused, under-informed, mis-informed, and otherwise do not have a clear understanding of what they are charged with, why, or the status of the proceedings. Many people think the job of a lawyer who represents those charged with crimes is to get-the-accused-off. That is far, far from the real practical role of a defense lawyer. One of the key roles of the lawyer is to help the accused understand the charge, understand the process, understand his or her rights and the alternatives there are, and to understand the outcome and its consequences. Lawyers are far from perfect, so they often fail to adequately fulfill all aspects of this, but they are nonetheless the best resource the accused has when involved in any criminal proceedings.

This is to say I have no idea what the status of your situation is. A lawyer can explain it far better than I could, and more reliably, by far, than what you can learn in a forum such as this.

My understanding is, again, fairly shallow if not a bit crude, but if the court approves the destruction of fingerprints taken that at least suggests, to me, as you say, it is or will be as if you were never charged, and if the status of the case is such that it is as if you were never charged, my understanding is that is not a prohibition. If there is some further condition before the status will become as-if-never-charged, then (again, my rough understanding) WHEN that happens (could be as simple as the passage of a specified period of time, or it may require a formal application), it will for sure not be a prohibition (as of then). In the meantime, however, again the current status can vary, and again many accused do not have a clear or accurate understanding of the current status of their case, and the best source for getting a clear understanding is a private, personal lawyer.

Hi
As i see it seems you are experienced person in the field .
I want to know your opinion about my case .
I charged by assult in the demostic issue .
I stayed one night in the police station to go to the court for getting bail .
Then the charge totally withrawan by Peace Bond 810 for 1 year .
The peace bond expired after 1 year without any issue and then i applied for destruction fingerprint and photo .
I was eligible for citizenship but i wait for expiring the peace bond and destruction .
The question is :
1-Am i supposed to attach court document to the citizenship file ?
2-In the form there is a question that is :
Are you now or have you ever been in the last 4 years : An inmate of Jail , reformatory , parison ?
On Probation ?
On Parole ?
What is the answers base on my case . I detailned over the night in police office to go to the court for tommorow . Is that jail ??
The Peace Bond is Parole ?

Its a little bit confusing ,
Please let me know what am i supposed to do base on your knowledge and experience.

Thanks

 

[dpenabill]

Hi
As i see it seems you are experienced person in the field .
I want to know your opinion about my case .
I charged by assult in the demostic issue .
I stayed one night in the police station to go to the court for getting bail .
Then the charge totally withrawan by Peace Bond 810 for 1 year .
The peace bond expired after 1 year without any issue and then i applied for destruction fingerprint and photo .
I was eligible for citizenship but i wait for expiring the peace bond and destruction .
The question is :
1-Am i supposed to attach court document to the citizenship file ?
2-In the form there is a question that is :
Are you now or have you ever been in the last 4 years : An inmate of Jail , reformatory , parison ?
On Probation ?
On Parole ?
What is the answers base on my case . I detailned over the night in police office to go to the court for tommorow . Is that jail ??
The Peace Bond is Parole ?

Its a little bit confusing ,
Please let me know what am i supposed to do base on your knowledge and experience.

Thanks

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it warrants repeating and emphasizing that I am NO expert regarding these things. And, for example, look at the very first sentence in the post of mine you quote:

"I do not know the Canadian criminal justice process very well at all."​

I was NOT being coy.

And I very well understand why you say "Its a little bit confusing . . . " Yes, it is.

Moreover, this may very well be one of those situations in which I personally would NOT follow my own counsel, at least not in the past when I was younger and, like many in this forum still, when I had some difficulty approaching such things without seeing them through a what-favours-me filter.

The night in jail throws things off some. Can you truthfully check "no" you were not an inmate in a jail when you were in fact held in custody?

My sense is that the odds are very good there is NO prohibition. As for whether there was a period of time pursuant to which you do not get credit for being present in Canada, due to being incarcerated, at the most that adds up to just two days, if any. And even that may be wiped off the slate given the final disposition.

But as you say, and it's true, how to answer the respective questions is a little bit confusing.

My older, more risk-averse, do the safe thing approach would be inclined to check "yes" to questions about being charged and incarcerated, and give a BRIEF specific explanation as to date of arrest, charge, and final disposition, that the charges were totally dismissed. But yes, this will increase the risk of at least some non-routine processing. Perhaps as minimal as a fingerprint request. Perhaps a request for copies of the formal court records showing the total discharge of the charges.

And thus I would go to the court and obtain certified copies of the court records to be prepared to submit those in case there is a request for them.

There is a significant likelihood that just the arrest itself will trigger such non-routine processing anyway, and being upfront about the situation should make a better impression.

While I do not know what really happens when charges are totally dismissed and fingerprint records destroyed, my sense is that there is still a record, just not a public record . . . so, for example, the GCMS screening might not show a hit, that being based on a name-record criminal data base which is broadly accessible, but the RCMP background clearance could still show a hit. And then the question is whether either the RCMP or IRCC will want more information before determining you are clear of any potential prohibition.

BUT I DO NOT REALLY KNOW WHAT THE BETTER APPROACH IS HERE.

Ultimately, based on what you report (and that, in particular, the charges have been totally dismissed, and thus are as if you were never charged or at least found to be innocent), there should be NO prohibition, and at the very, very worst a deduction of two days from your presence calculation (if any). So it may cause some non-routine processing along the way, and thus take longer than it does for many others, but not affect the final outcome.