American moving to Canada Spousal sponsor

[Charleslookingforhelp]

My Daughter, who is 22yr old Canadian (Manitoba) citizen, is marrying a 22 american (Washinton state) the wedding is oct 18 here in Manitoba. He is planning to move here to live with her, and apply for PR, and Open work permit. They will live on savings and her income until he can work. Before they apply tho, they want to go to Georgia the end of Oct for his sisters wedding! So they would wait to submit the Inland spousal sponsorship until they are back. Any issue with that, or advise or things to prepare beforehand?
He could also get the Citizenship by descent, as his great grandparents were born in Canada, but it seems that could take longer till he could start working??

 

[canuck78]

My Daughter, who is 22yr old Canadian (Manitoba) citizen, is marrying a 22 american (Washinton state) the wedding is oct 18 here in Manitoba. He is planning to move here to live with her, and apply for PR, and Open work permit. They will live on savings and her income until he can work. Before they apply tho, they want to go to Georgia the end of Oct for his sisters wedding! So they would wait to submit the Inland spousal sponsorship until they are back. Any issue with that, or advise or things to prepare beforehand?
He could also get the Citizenship by descent, as his great grandparents were born in Canada, but it seems that could take longer till he could start working??

Unless he qualifies for a WP under CUMSA he can’t move to Canada as a visitor so he can’t move his belongings to Canada like a PR. They should apply for proof of marriage registration as soon as possible because they will need to wait for it before applying for sponsorship.

 

[Charleslookingforhelp]

Hey thanks canuck! I understood he can come as a visitor for up to 6 months, and apply for PR during that time.
Yes they will apply for proof of marraige as soon as they can

 

[armoured]

My Daughter, who is 22yr old Canadian (Manitoba) citizen, is marrying a 22 american (Washinton state) the wedding is oct 18 here in Manitoba. He is planning to move here to live with her, and apply for PR, and Open work permit. They will live on savings and her income until he can work. Before they apply tho, they want to go to Georgia the end of Oct for his sisters wedding! So they would wait to submit the Inland spousal sponsorship until they are back. Any issue with that, or advise or things to prepare beforehand?
He could also get the Citizenship by descent, as his great grandparents were born in Canada, but it seems that could take longer till he could start working??

The constraint in applying is when he will get the marriage certificate - which in most provinces is 2-8 weeks to receive. (No, the thing the officiant will give at the wedding is not sufficient, and it will probably be returned). In practice that means they should just go to the other wedding and submit the sponsorship application afterwards.

As noted: he can't 'move' to Canada until he has status - as a US citizen, he can /visit./ For the most part this will not be an issue if he does not show up with all of his worldly belongings (eg truck with furniture). Just say outright he is visiting and getting married etc. He can/should admit that he will apply for PR but only remain as long as he's allowed to and his status is valid. (In practce that means he can apply to extend etc).

Now the citizenship wrinkle: I would still strongly suggest he get the documents and apply - he'd still get citizenship quicker, and easier to have that in Canada then just PR status (arguably). There's a wrinkle, though, and so may be easier to apply ... not right away.

The wrinkle: if when he submits the spousal spnsonsorhip they think he's a Canadian citizen, they WON'T approve the sponsorship. (A citizen is not eligible to become a PR). Do they have a process to put this on hold while they evaluate the citizenship app? I don't know. I believe he would also NOT be eligible to get a work permit - citizens are not eligible for them.

So I think the least confusing steps in the process would be for them to submit the sponsorship app first, and at least apply for the work permit, and only then apply for citizenship. (I'm kind of also assuming he doesn't have all the docs in hand, eg notarized copies of everything etc). (He might even want to wait until he gets PR status, since it's possible that would be quick.

The only reason I say that is that as far as I understand, there's no easy /process/ for a citizen-by-descent (under C-3) to get things like work permit (social security card), health card, etc, while they are in-country. They can apply 'urgently' - not clear to me how fast that actually is. So the path of applying for sponsorship is at least fairly straightforward and he'd be able to maintain status while this goes on. It may be at least worth getting a lawyer's input through a consultation (they can still do the paperwork themselves).

That said, others might have better info. I'm not folloiwng this all that closely, and it seems to be changing fast. It seems that the reddit.com 'subredit' on Canadian citizenship has the most active forum and discussions by people who are actually applying. (Caveat, most seem to be outside Canada). So he really should check that and other resources out: https://www.reddit.com/r/Canadiancitizenship/

Good luck to them.

 

[Charleslookingforhelp]

The constraint in applying is when he will get the marriage certificate - which in most provinces is 2-8 weeks to receive. (No, the thing the officiant will give at the wedding is not sufficient, and it will probably be returned). In practice that means they should just go to the other wedding and submit the sponsorship application afterwards.

As noted: he can't 'move' to Canada until he has status - as a US citizen, he can /visit./ For the most part this will not be an issue if he does not show up with all of his worldly belongings (eg truck with furniture). Just say outright he is visiting and getting married etc. He can/should admit that he will apply for PR but only remain as long as he's allowed to and his status is valid. (In practce that means he can apply to extend etc).

Now the citizenship wrinkle: I would still strongly suggest he get the documents and apply - he'd still get citizenship quicker, and easier to have that in Canada then just PR status (arguably). There's a wrinkle, though, and so may be easier to apply ... not right away.

The wrinkle: if when he submits the spousal spnsonsorhip they think he's a Canadian citizen, they WON'T approve the sponsorship. (A citizen is not eligible to become a PR). Do they have a process to put this on hold while they evaluate the citizenship app? I don't know. I believe he would also NOT be eligible to get a work permit - citizens are not eligible for them.

So I think the least confusing steps in the process would be for them to submit the sponsorship app first, and at least apply for the work permit, and only then apply for citizenship. (I'm kind of also assuming he doesn't have all the docs in hand, eg notarized copies of everything etc). (He might even want to wait until he gets PR status, since it's possible that would be quick.

The only reason I say that is that as far as I understand, there's no easy /process/ for a citizen-by-descent (under C-3) to get things like work permit (social security card), health card, etc, while they are in-country. They can apply 'urgently' - not clear to me how fast that actually is. So the path of applying for sponsorship is at least fairly straightforward and he'd be able to maintain status while this goes on. It may be at least worth getting a lawyer's input through a consultation (they can still do the paperwork themselves).

That said, others might have better info. I'm not folloiwng this all that closely, and it seems to be changing fast. It seems that the reddit.com 'subredit' on Canadian citizenship has the most active forum and discussions by people who are actually applying. (Caveat, most seem to be outside Canada). So he really should check that and other resources out: https://www.reddit.com/r/Canadiancitizenship/

Good luck to them.

Hey Thanks, armoured, that sounds like good logic.

So do I have this right? when they get back from Georgia, and as soon as they receive the marriage certificate, they apply for the sponsorship, and when they get the AOR then he can apply for the OWP?
Any Idea how long that could take at current speeds?

 

[armoured]

Hey Thanks, armoured, that sounds like good logic.

So do I have this right? when they get back from Georgia, and as soon as they receive the marriage certificate, they apply for the sponsorship, and when they get the AOR then he can apply for the OWP?
Any Idea how long that could take at current speeds?

Yes, that's right. I have no idea how long for the open work permit, just haven't been following.

For US citizens, and to a lesser degree ANZUK, NATO, EU, the PR process tends to be quicker (police and security clearances quicker). Also (my impression) for younger people. So it's not unheard of for the PR to come through more quickly than the OWP.

 

[Charleslookingforhelp]

Is there anything he should do now before coming to Canada? FBI check? start filling out forms? ect?

 

[armoured]

Is there anything he should do now before coming to Canada? FBI check? start filling out forms? ect?

Yes, download the application package and start filling it out - either directly online or just do offline for organizational purposes (and then input the info online later). I believe FBI check is needed. Other than that, it is mostly checking he has the official documents and ordering them if needed (rule of thumb: photocopies usually for most originals in English or French, originals [newly issued by originating agency such as birth certificate extracts] plus certified translation for docs in other languages), supporting documentation as per the forms. Probably birth certificate is only thing he might need to order plus whatever police checks (although perhaps some others).

I'd suggest for him family class (what is referred to as 'outland') even if in Canada (doesn't change much and avoids potential issues if he doesn't remain in Canada). Some others may disagree, that's fine, I don't think it's that critical in his specific case.

There's no magic otherwise for the forms. Use the 'checklist' doc as central point for organisation - that really will show everything. The rest is iterative: go through, answer the easy stuff first, make note of things needed / things that are not clear or need to find info and collect docs, get that stuff/research, go through the forms again until all clear / everything collected, check your work, etc. Iterate.

Underline the 'check your work' and do it carefully. Sending in an imcomplete / serious error application loses three months or more.

 

[Charleslookingforhelp]

Yes, download the application package and start filling it out - either directly online or just do offline for organizational purposes (and then input the info online later). I believe FBI check is needed. Other than that, it is mostly checking he has the official documents and ordering them if needed (rule of thumb: photocopies usually for most originals in English or French, originals [newly issued by originating agency such as birth certificate extracts] plus certified translation for docs in other languages), supporting documentation as per the forms. Probably birth certificate is only thing he might need to order plus whatever police checks (although perhaps some others).

I'd suggest for him family class (what is referred to as 'outland') even if in Canada (doesn't change much and avoids potential issues if he doesn't remain in Canada). Some others may disagree, that's fine, I don't think it's that critical in his specific case.

There's no magic otherwise for the forms. Use the 'checklist' doc as central point for organisation - that really will show everything. The rest is iterative: go through, answer the easy stuff first, make note of things needed / things that are not clear or need to find info and collect docs, get that stuff/research, go through the forms again until all clear / everything collected, check your work, etc. Iterate.

Underline the 'check your work' and do it carefully. Sending in an imcomplete / serious error application loses three months or more.

Outland? That is a new thought! I thought if he was living in Canada, it needed to be inland. So whats the point of the 2 options if they essentially are the same?

 

[armoured]

Outland? That is a new thought! I thought if he was living in Canada, it needed to be inland. So whats the point of the 2 options if they essentially are the same?

In the past they used to be quite different, IRCC has made some changes (notably now even outland applicants can apply for the work permit, as long as they are in Canada). Now the distinctions are fairly small and my personal opinion is that for most people, outland makes more sense.

The primary exception is for /some/ applicants who are out of status and should apply inland (it has to do with a policy of govt not proceeding with removal process in some cases for inland, and even then, it's not so obvious, because they /might not/ get around to removal process anyway [and my impression is that they often don't] - so anyway I note the point, it is a question of opinion/impressions and the facts are specific - and I don't consider myself an expert on this out of status issue).

I don't think there are any other significant differences that I recall but I probably am forgetting.

Apart from that specific advantage, I think the balance of other factors is in favour of outland for most (eg if an inland applicant gets stuck outside Canada, IRCC can consider the app abandoned and just cancel it; inland apps have no right of appeal; and, inland applicants are required to reside together in Canada the entire time, which sometimes can cause problems if employment or schooling interferes).

Small point: while applications can't be 'transferred' or switched eg from inland to outland, an outland applicant who is in Canada is in essentially the same situation as in inland applicant (apart from this specific public policy issue I mentioned). The work permit factor used to be a big deal in favour of inland apps but for several years now, available to both.

 

[Charleslookingforhelp]

Well the wedding is behind us! and the new couple is in Georgia attending his sister's wedding! Since they are doing the outland family class sponsorship, I thought they could start their paperwork out there as the marriage certificate has arrived but now when he is filling out his information it's asking for an address does he use his address here, which will our house address, or does he need to use an address in the US? They are flying back here in a week and ½.

 

[Charleslookingforhelp]

Well the wedding is behind us! and the new couple is in Georgia attending his sister's wedding! Since they are doing the outland family class sponsorship, I thought they could start their paperwork out there as the marriage certificate has arrived but now when he is filling out his information it's asking for an address does he use his address here, which will our house address, or does he need to use an address in the US? They are flying back here in a week and ½.

Just thinking if they actually submit before crossing back, it should probably be the address his bank ect would have? I do not know how long filling it all out takes, so don't know if they will actually submit before...

 

[armoured]

Well the wedding is behind us! and the new couple is in Georgia attending his sister's wedding! Since they are doing the outland family class sponsorship, I thought they could start their paperwork out there as the marriage certificate has arrived but now when he is filling out his information it's asking for an address does he use his address here, which will our house address, or does he need to use an address in the US? They are flying back here in a week and ½.

Just thinking if they actually submit before crossing back, it should probably be the address his bank ect would have? I do not know how long filling it all out takes, so don't know if they will actually submit before...

Congratulations.

-He can apply 'outland' while in Canada and use the address he has in Canada.
-I don't think need to worry about the bank account address corresponding.
-Without knowing or going through all the details from before in this thread - it probably would be easier from a few perspectives if he submits it while in Canada and shows his address in Canada, with her. Keep in mind - if applying outland, if I remember correctly, he's not being asked for much to 'prove' his physical address or that he's 'living' in Canada - it just helps to show living with spouse for relationshiip purposes.

For background, it is MUCH more important to demonstrate residing together in Canada if applying inland - in fact it's a requirement that they be living together for it to be a valid app.

 

[armoured]

@Charleslookingforhelp - important news article today, here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/immigration-permanent-resident-billc3-9.7409321

In short: there is, roughly as I expected, potentially a wrinkle for those that might be eligible for citizenship-by-descent (esp more than one gen), which I'm going to term CD^2 - IRCC seems to be pausing PR applications for those applicants who (to IRCC knowledge) may be eligible for CD^2.

CBC News has learned that Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada quietly put permanent resident applications on hold for an unknown number of people who could now qualify for citizenship under Bill C-3.
...
That leaves those affected in limbo — without permanent resident status and stuck in a nearly three-year processing backlog of applications for citizenship certificates.
...
"If we had not applied for the proof of citizenship application, she would have had PR by now,"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/immigration-permanent-resident-billc3-9.7409321

Take with a grain of salt and follow the issue but this would be his issue (potentially):
So as far as we can tell from this article: he should apply for the sponsorship app but NOT submit his citizenship app just yet (but definitely get everything ready).

This is a real issue and until IRCC comes up with some way of dealing with it, I don't see many alternatives. (Obviously could consult a lawyer - and perhaps should).

And note - this doesn't even completely resolve the issue, because if he /does/ get PR status and then submits a citizenship app, then IRCC will have to figure out how to 'unwind' that legally/bureaucratically - but at least he'll be in Canada with a SIN and stuff like that, and they won't have any plausible basis to deprive him of right to work and remain in Canada. (Either he'll be a PR with right to stay or a citizen with right to stay - legally - and there's no Schrodinger's cat version where he has to leave and/or stop working)

FWIW.

 

[Charleslookingforhelp]

@Charleslookingforhelp - important news article today, here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/immigration-permanent-resident-billc3-9.7409321

In short: there is, roughly as I expected, potentially a wrinkle for those that might be eligible for citizenship-by-descent (esp more than one gen), which I'm going to term CD^2 - IRCC seems to be pausing PR applications for those applicants who (to IRCC knowledge) may be eligible for CD^2.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/immigration-permanent-resident-billc3-9.7409321

Take with a grain of salt and follow the issue but this would be his issue (potentially):
So as far as we can tell from this article: he should apply for the sponsorship app but NOT submit his citizenship app just yet (but definitely get everything ready).

This is a real issue and until IRCC comes up with some way of dealing with it, I don't see many alternatives. (Obviously could consult a lawyer - and perhaps should).

And note - this doesn't even completely resolve the issue, because if he /does/ get PR status and then submits a citizenship app, then IRCC will have to figure out how to 'unwind' that legally/bureaucratically - but at least he'll be in Canada with a SIN and stuff like that, and they won't have any plausible basis to deprive him of right to work and remain in Canada. (Either he'll be a PR with right to stay or a citizen with right to stay - legally - and there's no Schrodinger's cat version where he has to leave and/or stop working)

FWIW.

Very good information!! Thanks alot, again, for all the info you've given!