ADVANTAGE AND DISADVANTAGE OF NEW DEMAND LIST

[mediajunkie]

The point is that those with 3 years apprenticeship or diploma get more points that those with a bachelors degree, i.e., it is possible for plumbers to make it.

I never said there is no IT people in Canada but rather I have never heard of the demand for IT people. This means that I have never heard of there being a shortage of IT people in Canada. Of course by your silly argument, don't you think Canada has pipes, pipelines, sewage, toilets, etc.

If you could read English and think a little more logically you'd realise that the high hourly salary for plumbers should imply there is a demand for them that is not being met currently in Canada. But then basic economics and logic aren't probably your strong point.

That is right. People think that Plumbers are dirty jobs and where I come from plumbers are the lowest of the low in the food chain. But here plumbers are revered. I made an appointment with a plumber to install a toilet and sink in the basement that I am renovating. He said his soonest appointment was 4 months from now and he is charge $80 an hour for non-emergencies and $120 an hour for emergencies, not including materials. That's $13,000 a month assuming he works a full 40 hours a week - and most of them don't because they make enough money to work fewer hours. If your toilet is clogged with waste do you really want to wait 4 months for a plumber to show up? That's how much plumbers are in demand. It's still a dirty job, but it's a highly paid dirty job.

 

[Mr.singh]

txboy

I agree with you. The decision seems racial but its actually not. but it was a wrong decision from all perspective. Never before Canada has taken such a preposterous decision about its immigration policy.

media junkie

youve been there before, living now, how many asian or european doctors youve seen getting directly injected into the Canadian health sector, why would doctors migrated from from asia and europe be hired without having fulfilling adequate Canadian requirments to be in their workforce. The bottomline is, everyone is acting bizzare in the wake of losing their jobs. So solution to it is to make themselves qualified for Canadian jobs.

I never heard any nurse, plumbers and welders and crane operators went for Bachelors ,Masters or Phds. This is utterly absurd. How can they score 67? This is hillarious. I never heard Canadian health sector, Real Estate, Meds sectors reeled from shortages of professionals in those categories.

The best change would have been to Stop taking all sorts of Applications for at least 3 months, Rather they made mockery of the system and the PR aspirants.

The best change would have been to Stop taking all sorts of Applications for at least 3 months, Rather they made mockery of the system and the PR aspirants.
i totally agree with you... this was the way to go...not what they have devised...

 

[jnathan]

as always very good experienced evaluation from mediajunk.
However, I do disagree with some of the things Canadian Employers have been practicing for ages:

1. They are not recognising any foreign IT College degree, so PR holders from 0213 in Canada are blocked initially from aplying to IT jobs in Canada. People successfully worked in Asian or other countries, migrated to Canada and there their degree is not recognised- isn this very funny? it has always raised a big question in my mind, doesnt everyone think that job search and getting a job for a 0213 in Canada is deliberately blocked by the employers?? what can migrated 0213's do, they need time to get themselves educated in IT field- it needs time- may be a year or two or even 4+ yrs, they just cant spend the whole amount they took with them to Canada rightway after they reach there. Everyone should think carefully, Canadian employers need to open the space for people from all parts of world that migrated to Canada regardless of their ethnicity, college from where they have studied. They have to open the doors for application and call these 0213's in interviews and check with their IT capabilities and skills o see if they meet the demand of their organizations. If and only if they fail to put up a good show, they can be excluded from the hiring force.

So the problem is in the system if Canada, not among the PR holders.

I hope everyone understands !

 

[New2Canada]

Canadian employers need to open the space for people from all parts of world that migrated to Canada regardless of their ethnicity,

I think you need to understand that this expectation from Canadian employers is regardless of ethnicity. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. Even UK and Americans go through this difficulty, perhaps a bit less so if they are a professional and can speak good english. For the canadian degree requirement, even those from the world's best universities in the US would not get easily employed in Canadian universities because they do not have a Canadian degree. Please understand that this has nothing to do with ethnicity.

1. They are not recognising any foreign IT College degree, so PR holders from 0213 in Canada are blocked initially from aplying to IT jobs in Canada. People successfully worked in Asian or other countries, migrated to Canada and there their degree is not recognised- isn this very funny?

Canada is working hard to recognise degrees. Look at this post: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t45687.0.html

Canada is recognising other countries' degrees. The problem is that come countries do not have the same process of accredition that Canada has and therefore a wide ranging quality of degrees. How can Canada recognise degrees form some countries where you may have really good degrees and really bad degrees all in the same country. They have to recognise country by country and these countries with wide ranging quality need to re-look at themselves. Ask your country's accreditation process to change and then maybe Canada will do its part. If you look at that link, many countries are recognised from Hong Kong, Singapore to South Africa, not only first world countries and if you look at it again, many first world countries' degrees are not recognised.

Canadian employers need to open the space for people from all parts of world that migrated to Canada regardless of their ethnicity, college from where they have studied. They have to open the doors for application and call these 0213's in interviews and check with their IT capabilities and skills o see if they meet the demand of their organizations. If and only if they fail to put up a good show, they can be excluded from the hiring force.

I think we all agree that Canada is run pretty well compared to our own countries and one of the reasons for this awesome run country is that there is little inteference between government and public. Government is reluctant to tell people who to hire and will only legislate those not hiring on a discrimination class. Government can analyse which NOCs are needed in Canada but cannot tell companies who to hire.

Interviewing in western countries is an expensive process. So instead of calling everyone for interview, they use past data to see which potential employees have the highest chance of passing the interview stage and hence cut down on cost. Even in your country, do you think employers call everyone for interview or do they cut down some people from lower quality universities if there are many applicants form higher quality universities. The point I am trying to show is that there are many ways of increasing your chances of hiring and lowering your interview/hiring costs.

Overall, we like Canada because of the way it is run and the way the companies are doing well so the economy is stronger compared to many other countries. The reason for this success is their freedom to hire who they think is the best, lower their costs, and be profitable. Sure, there are ways to improve the process but I think we want them to improve to advantage us, not because it is good for them. If Canada is unfair, why not ask your own countries to let other immigrants in as easy as Canada does.

Jnathan -I know for a fact that even in your own country, it is hard for foreigners to immigrate or get a job. Why not ask your country to change before we expect Canada (which is not our country yet) to change. Be fair on Canada guys.

 

[charninder]

One can go upto Phd in nursing just as engineers can. If engineers can make it to canada with a bachelors degree, why not nurses. Many nurses get bachelors degrees in many countries.

As for plumbers, etc, you may have not heard a demand for them just as I have never heard of a demand for IT personell in Canada. we just don't look out for jobs that are not in our field. Plumbers, etc are paid handsomely in Canada which implies that there is a demand for them (it is a matter of demand and supply).

3 year diploma or apprenticeship in plumbing- 22 points
4 years of work experience - 21 points
Age -10 points
1st Language - 10 point
2nd language - 2points
Adaptability or job offer - at least 4 points

Total - 67 points. That is how plumbers make it. They may want a high score IELTS because these plumbers talk to clients often. While this might seem trivial, CIC may be taking a different view.

Dreamy picture.

 

[New2Canada]

Dreamy picture.

If a person with only an undergraduation can make it (with 20 points) then why not a plumber with 3 year apprenticeship (with 22 points).

 

[jnathan]

Apprenticeship comes into comparison with Bachelors Degrees?
Have you people gone nuts?

 

[rinks25us]

Apprenticeship comes into comparison with Bachelors Degrees?
Have you people gone nuts?

Jnathan,

Would you please mind sharing your interpretation of education and degrees or let me broaden it to intellectualism v/s intelligence? How should one compare things, as they are all relative... history says that majority of the inventions/discoveries were achieved by people who were passionate about them, not because they were educated with degrees from various collleges.. (look at the latest recession .. )

I am sure there must be a big reason for you to apply for immigration to Canada, apart from materialistic comforts of a developed nation.. and the way I look at it is that immigration is just not physical, its more mental and one has to be more openminded..

Hope you understand what I mean.. even if you don't agree with, please try to be encourage people rather than ....

Cheers
Rinks

 

[New2Canada]

Apprenticeship comes into comparison with Bachelors Degrees?
Have you people gone nuts?

Of course, Jnathan has never read the rule for FSW1. If he reads it, he will see that those with 3 years apprenticeship get 22 points and those with bachelors only get 20 points. Of course, by his argument, PhD and masters are not weighted equivalently by CIC (despite both getting 25 points) and by his argument a postgraduate diploma is valuable for immigration purposes even though CIC gives 0 points for that.

Jnathan - go look at OP6 and you will see that apprenticeship get 22 points and a bachelors (even a medical degree that is a bachelors degree) gets only 20 points. CIC weights a bachelors degree equivalently with a 2 year diploma.

Of course, Jnathan doesn't understand the concept of demand and supply. Perhaps understanding why plumbers earn more than many professionals with degree is beyond his simple brain. But mostly, he argues based on his concept of what is equal and what is better, which he should realise is not how CIC grants points but based on a set criteria for education and that set criteria should tell him (if he could read English well) that 3 years apprenticeship personnel gets 2 more points than someone with only a bachelors degree.

 

[Kellys]

"Some NOC are very odd, welders, plumbers and crane operators can be found, but they are not educated and can not reach to 67 points."

ACTUALLY there is 4-5 years training to be a plumber which includes on site and college training. DO NOT PRESUME about a profession you are not trained in. I am a plumber, I am highly educated and skilled and am NOT IMPRESSED BY YOUR RUDENESS AND IGNORANCE. I have well over the 67 points!

 

[S.M.FARHAN]

??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? I THINK THEY DON'T NEED ANY FURTHER IMMIGRANTS.......

 

[New2Canada]

"Some NOC are very odd, welders, plumbers and crane operators can be found, but they are not educated and can not reach to 67 points."

ACTUALLY there is 4-5 years training to be a plumber which includes on site and college training. DO NOT PRESUME about a profession you are not trained in. I am a plumber, I am highly educated and skilled and am NOT IMPRESSED BY YOUR RUDENESS AND IGNORANCE. I have well over the 67 points!

Ignore them. They have one set mind about what is superior and inferior. Unfortunately, that mindset will go to Canada too.

 

[haral]

if i was the immigration minister i would have made the same call. capping is the right thing to do otherwise there s no way they can handle all the workload efficiently and remain cost effective at the same time. When workload increases they ve to bring in more staff to keep the processing times as per their standards which eventually increases processing costs...

 

[visaexpert]

"Some NOC are very odd, welders, plumbers and crane operators can be found, but they are not educated and can not reach to 67 points."

ACTUALLY there is 4-5 years training to be a plumber which includes on site and college training. DO NOT PRESUME about a profession you are not trained in. I am a plumber, I am highly educated and skilled and am NOT IMPRESSED BY YOUR RUDENESS AND IGNORANCE. I have well over the 67 points!

Sorry If I hurt you.......

But my intention was not to against the welder, plumber, crane operator or related professions. but I was the matter to against Canadian Government who declared very odd occupation list.

I am 100% sure that It is not the demand list what they have declared on 26th June, 2010. They do not want the workers of new occupation list but It is the planning to Canadian government to slow down or stop the new applications for Canada PR as offices are not able to process all the applications on time and create headache for them and increase back log.

You know what they want? They want the application with arrange employment, they do not want unemployed worker in Canada who is not able to find job himself having good degree in hand.

They have set 20000 cap limit but I am sure, no more than 1000 application will be submitted at the end of coming 3 month (1st Oct-2010) and entire cap limit of 20000 will be finish within 8 months.

But my friends, Welder, plumber and crane operator etc. are quit safe. You have provided 1000 cap limit per NOC. You have not to worry. They will not get 1000 plumber in 12 months.

I am not against the any occupation but the NOC selectors who add those NOC can not reach to 67 passing score, of course exception are everywhere.

According to Indian Education and labor market

Welder, Plumber, Carpenter and Driver are not well educated. to reach 67 point, they need at least 20 point in Education factor, you know how much you get the point if you have 12th standard pass. It will be just 5 points.

More than 90% workers from these category (Welder, Plumber, Carpenter and Driver) are not even completed 10th Standard.
Industrial Training Institute(ITI) is running here where candidate get admission in there occupation without any education, 8th pass student can take training for welders of plumber.
They have maximum 10+2 years (industrial training) education, It can not get more education points.
12th standard is the dream for them. How can they get education points.
of course, they have good working knowledge, they can do any complex job from their occupation. but they are 0 in English (note I write about India and Asia), How can they get Language points with the ability of basic skill in English.
Their wife may be uneducated (girls were not allowed to study more in past in India) so they will not get Spouse points.
They may not have relative in Canada but they may have relative in Gulf/ middle east countries.
They will stop on 50 points, 67 will be the high score for them.


If I talk about teachers, accountant and computer developers, most of candidate from this occupation are above education of 12th Standard and get average Education points.

 

[PMM]

Hi

Sorry If I hurt you.......

But my intention was not to against the welder, plumber, crane operator or related professions. but I was the matter to against Canadian Government who declared very odd occupation list.

I am 100% sure that It is not the demand list what they have declared on 26th June, 2010. They do not want the workers of new occupation list but It is the planning to Canadian government to slow down or stop the new applications for Canada PR as offices are not able to process all the applications on time and create headache for them and increase back log.

You know what they want? They want the application with arrange employment, they do not want unemployed worker in Canada who is not able to find job himself having good degree in hand.

They have set 20000 cap limit but I am sure, no more than 1000 application will be submitted at the end of coming 3 month (1st Oct-2010) and entire cap limit of 20000 will be finish within 8 months.

But my friends, Welder, plumber and crane operator etc. are quit safe. You have provided 1000 cap limit per NOC. You have not to worry. They will not get 1000 plumber in 12 months.

I am not against the any occupation but the NOC selectors who add those NOC can not reach to 67 passing score, of course exception are everywhere.

According to Indian Education and labor market

Welder, Plumber, Carpenter and Driver are not well educated. to reach 67 point, they need at least 20 point in Education factor, you know how much you get the point if you have 12th standard pass. It will be just 5 points.

More than 90% workers from these category (Welder, Plumber, Carpenter and Driver) are not even completed 10th Standard.
Industrial Training Institute(ITI) is running here where candidate get admission in there occupation without any education, 8th pass student can take training for welders of plumber.
They have maximum 10+2 years (industrial training) education, It can not get more education points.
12th standard is the dream for them. How can they get education points.
of course, they have good working knowledge, they can do any complex job from their occupation. but they are 0 in English (note I write about India and Asia), How can they get Language points with the ability of basic skill in English.
Their wife may be uneducated (girls were not allowed to study more in past in India) so they will not get Spouse points.
They may not have relative in Canada but they may have relative in Gulf/ middle east countries.
They will stop on 50 points, 67 will be the high score for them.


If I talk about teachers, accountant and computer developers, most of candidate from this occupation are above education of 12th Standard and get average Education points.

You should note that Canada takes Immigrants from countries other than India