A reality check on the sponsorship/permanent resident process

[Baloo]

When I asked for more details, I meant about your history / application.

I would have thought that 90%+ of the cases were accepted.

See below.

So unless I get the firm number, they could be approving just 50% of the applications.

In the period 2010 (Jan-Sep) CIC received 265,985 PR applications, there were 57,912 refusals - about 22% were refused
45,490 of these applications were family class. So if the percentage is evenly distributed, it looks like 10,000 family PR applications were rejected in this period.
Also note that at the end of this period the backlog (all of it) stood at a total of 967,070 applications.

The reality is slightly more than one in every five submissions is rejected.


Source: CIC Operational Databases, 3rd Quarter 2010

 

[MarkGuy]

When I asked for more details, I meant about your history / application.

OK sorry.
Ours would be quite straightforward.
Met in Dec 2009. Five meetings, twice in her country, once in Canada and twice in other countries.
Met all of her family and friends. Have photos of us together and with family and her friends.
Tons of e-mail. Plenty of phone bill logs. Western Union money transfers of considerable amounts.
Plane ticket itineraries/boarding passes.

The reality is slightly more than one in every five submissions is rejected.

Thanks. That's a lower number than I would have expected.
But as you mentioned we don't have the Sponsorship breakdown.

Speaking of breakdowns. Do we have a breakdown of when the rejections take place?
ie. The numbers for Sponsorship rejection vs. Perm. Res. rejections?
I think those numbers would be quite helpful too. Are they available anywhere?

 

[Baloo]

Thanks. That's a lower number than I would have expected.
But as you mentioned we don't have the Sponsorship breakdown.

Why lower?
That group is only family applications. Around one in five (22%) overall is not a small amount.

Speaking of breakdowns. Do we have a breakdown of when the rejections take place?
ie. The numbers for Sponsorship rejection vs. Perm. Res. rejections?
I think those numbers would be quite helpful too. Are they available anywhere?

Not that I have seen publicly.
To be honest it doesn't matter if it is sponsor or applicant, if it is rejected for either then it is not happening that time around anyway.

To be honest the one thing everyone learns it that nothing is straightforward when dealing with immigration - sometimes it appears totally random.

 

[Panda]

That's true immigration means pain is the butt

 

[MarkGuy]

Why lower?
That group is only family applications. Around one in five (22%) overall is not a small amount.

Sorry, by lower number than I expected, I was referring to a lower number of approvals not rejections.
I was expecting a high number of approvals, like 85-90%, therefore 10-15% rejection rate.

 

[rjessome]

Sorry, by lower number than I expected, I was referring to a lower number of approvals not rejections.
I was expecting a high number of approvals, like 85-90%, therefore 10-15% rejection rate.

I only have the stats for 2009. I'm not sure if the complete 2010 stats are available yet.

There was an article in the Edmonton Sun on November 16, 2010, http://www.edmontonsun.com/comment/columnists/mindelle_jacobs/2010/11/15/16158476.html that states there were more than 49,000 overseas spousal applicants in 2009. 20% refused leaves approximately 39,200 approved. Less than 5% of cases approved report marriage fraud. That's 1960 cases of fraud.

So overall, it is 80% approved and 20% refused. However, keep in mind that refusals can occur for several reasons but the majority of those refused would be because of genuineness of the relationship.

 

[canadianwoman]

If 20% are refused, usually because the visa officer suspected marriage fraud, and 5% of those accepted turn out to be marriage fraud, then the percentage of cases that are marriage fraud is closer to 25%.
To the OP: it depends a lot on what visa office you are going through. Some have very high refusal rates. The Canadian High Commission in Ghana, for example, refuses 50% of spousal applications. Hong Kong is also very high.
As for how much evidence to send, that depends on the visa office you are going through (send more to difficult embassies), and your own relationship. If your relationship is completely normal, and you are applying through a visa office in the first world, less evidence is needed. If you are applying through a visa office in the developing world, more evidence is needed. If your relationship has 'red flags', send all the evidence you have. Red flags are things like: the wife is older than the husband, there is a large difference in age/education/economic background, different races, different religions, different relationship histories (one of you is unmarried, the other has been divorced three times and has children, for eg.), a small wedding ceremony in a culture where huge ceremonies are the norm, family doesn't know about the relationship, there was a very short courtship, you got married the first time you met after 'meeting' online, etc.
Even just sending in the basics can still add up to a huge application. I have been phoning my husband regularly since 2005; one phone bill a month adds up to 72 pages right there. We've known each other since 2001; that means we had to send in photocopies of every page of two of his passports and three of mine just to prove we visited each other and traveled together.

 

[clubcanada]

as someone stated: every case is different. There's no golden rule to prove a genuine marriage. It is all about the story and whether it makes sense. there're some indications that rapidly might decrease your chances:
- huge age difference
- older woman sponsors younger man (especially in some cultures this might be suspicious)
- one or both have been through a couple of marriages
- many 'odd things' involved (including internet relationship, refused immigration in the past with different spouses, being married for several years and living separated, etc)

in addition, there are a couple of regions with higher rejection rates - presumably based on CIC's experience with complaints and frauds over the years. this could be on both sides (sponsored spouse dumps sponsor right after landing or sponsor abuses spouse)
under normal circumstances you should be able to bring your spouse over and you don't need to send tons of material proving your relationship. Just have a sound story ready that is convincing and makes sense (so you'd better have a dry run with someone or have it reviewd by an experienced immigration consultant). For example, if both come from different cultures and speak different languages, just explain how you've dealt with it in the past and what are your plans in the future. If you got a masters degree and your partner didnt even finish high school just explain what are the things that keep you together and why you're still a good fit...

The only thing then you need to provide is.... patience...

 

[MarkGuy]

Canadianwoman and clubcanada thanks for your input on this.
I really appreciate it!

Before the discussion at dinner a couple of nights ago with my family,
I was going to treat this as a straight-forward case. Sending what was asked for and not
padding it with anything.

But now with all of these cautions, I think I will be a lot more careful and send extra material that I wouldn't have sent initially.

There are no red flags about this relationship according to the lists provided above.
The only red flag that I can see in our case is that of her country, Russia.

 

[rjessome]

Before the discussion at dinner a couple of nights ago with my family,
I was going to treat this as a straight-forward case. Sending what was asked for and not
padding it with anything.

But now with all of these cautions, I think I will be a lot more careful and send extra material that I wouldn't have sent initially.

You were smart to check things out.

When preparing your application you also might want to read through OP Manual 2, especially sections 5 and 12. This Operational Manual is a guide/set of instructions to Visa Officers about how spousal sponsorships are to be processed. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf

It will help you to know how they assess these applications.

 

[canadianwoman]

There are no red flags about this relationship according to the lists provided above.
The only red flag that I can see in our case is that of her country, Russia.

Men bringing wives over from Russia is not too surprising.
One red flag I forgot to mention was a language difference. If the husband and wife can't both speak the same language fairly well, the visa officer will question how they communicate. There have been a couple of cases on this forum where the application was refused at least partly because the visa officer didn't believe the applicant and sponsor shared a language. There is a question on the forms that asks in what language you communicate.

 

[MarkGuy]

...
One red flag I forgot to mention was a language difference. If the husband and wife can't both speak the same language fairly well, the visa officer will question how they communicate. There have been a couple of cases on this forum where the application was refused at least partly because the visa officer didn't believe the applicant and sponsor shared a language. There is a question on the forms that asks in what language you communicate.

Thanks CW.
I was in a relationship before where we couldn't speak each other's language. It wasn't very fun.
This time it's different. Her English is not bad at all.
I don't recall the question on how we communicate. I just recall questions on whether she can speak English or French.

 

[MarkGuy]

When preparing your application you also might want to read through OP Manual 2, especially sections 5 and 12. This Operational Manual is a guide/set of instructions to Visa Officers about how spousal sponsorships are to be processed. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf

It will help you to know how they assess these applications.

Thanks rj for the heads up. I will definitely check them out.

 

[canadianwoman]

Question 26 on IMM 5490, the Sponsored Spouse/Partner Questionnaire, asks what language the two of you use to communicate:

"26. a) How do you and your sponsor communicate when you are not together?

b) How often and in what language?"

If her English is good there will be no problem there.

 

[mr70]

This is a good thread as the process does present challenges. My fiancee and I have been in contact for about a year and a half,with the usual trips,communication history and pictures etc. We do have a couple of red flags with us, one being we both have had previous marriages and an age gap between us. The age gap is only two years,which I feel is not really a major red flag. Our previous marriages I feel are going to be the biggest red flags to deal with,myself once and she twice. The reasons of the breakdowns of our marriages are a reality that happens everywhere.I can only hope that a VO understands that when we apply and explain our pasts. I know that an interview will be required,and certainly have worries. I am going to retain a lawyer when our application gets started just for help with the forms,and in the event of a negative result knows everything about our file from the start, so an appeal can be requested. It is nice to have this forum for some support,advice, opinons and for people to share their own experiences.