A reality check on the sponsorship/permanent resident process

[MarkGuy]

I was discussing the sponsorship/permanent resident process with my family last night.

My mother in particular is not very familiar with it at all.

She was insisting that it was very difficult/unlikely for a foreigner to be successful in their application to become a permanent resident after marrying a Canadian citizen/permanent resident.

She said there are a huge number of marriage scams and this is the main reason why it's so difficult.

Another factor in her belief stems from the on-going difficulties a family member is having in bringing over their wife to Canada.

My brother's brother-in-law is now a permanent resident of Canada and has been trying for a few years to sponsor his wife and bring her over to Canada along with their child.
Each time he has been denied the sponsorship/visa.

My mother said, what will happen if you marry and then are denied the sponsorship/permanent resident visa?

In my mind, if you have a genuine marriage then it is almost a given that you will be granted the sponsorship/permanent resident visa.

Who is correct in their thinking, my mother or myself?

 

[patiently_waiting]

I was discussing the sponsorship/permanent resident process with my family last night.

My mother in particular is not very familiar with it at all.

She was insisting that it was very difficult/unlikely for a foreigner to be successful in their application to become a permanent resident after marrying a Canadian citizen/permanent resident.

She said there are a huge number of marriage scams and this is the main reason why it's so difficult.

Another factor in her belief stems from the on-going difficulties a family member is having in bringing over their wife to Canada.

My brother's brother-in-law is now a permanent resident of Canada and has been trying for a few years to sponsor his wife and bring her over to Canada along with their child.
Each time he has been denied the sponsorship/visa.

My mother said, what will happen if you marry and then are denied the sponsorship/permanent resident visa?

In my mind, if you have a genuine marriage then it is almost a given that you will be granted the sponsorship/permanent resident visa.

Who is correct in their thinking, my mother or myself?

Hi MarkGuy, which visa office would you be applying from? Some have a higher level of fraud than others and that could be why the statistics for that region are high. Just a little more information is needed to assist you

 

[scylla]

If you have a genuine marriage and include sufficient supporting documentation in your application to prove that your relationship is real, then your chances of being accepted are very high. (I wouldn't say that it's a given since the burden is on you to prove your relationship is genuine in your application.)

There may be very good reasons why your brother in law has run into problems with the sponsorship. For example, he must be living in Canada in order to sponsor and must continue to live in Canada while the application is being processed (i.e. if he's not in Canada the sponsorship application will be rejected). Also, how did he obtain his permanent resident status? Is there any chance he declared himself single when he landed when he was in fact married? This would be another reason for rejection. Is your brother in law bankrupt or on social assistance? This would result in a rejection as well.

 

[Baloo]

Who is correct in their thinking, my mother or myself?

There is no answer to this, but while your Mother may not be familiar with the process, she is fairly close to the truth.

The PR process is not easy and it takes time, there are no guarantees, many people are accepted but others are not.
Every case is different.

if you have a genuine marriage then it is almost a given that you will be granted the sponsorship/permanent resident visa

If you follow your logic totally, you are saying that your brother in law does not have a genuine relationship. Clearly that cant be what you mean?

Give us a bit more background information and you are likely to get more replies.

 

[rjessome]

I was discussing the sponsorship/permanent resident process with my family last night.

My mother in particular is not very familiar with it at all.

She was insisting that it was very difficult/unlikely for a foreigner to be successful in their application to become a permanent resident after marrying a Canadian citizen/permanent resident.

She said there are a huge number of marriage scams and this is the main reason why it's so difficult.

Another factor in her belief stems from the on-going difficulties a family member is having in bringing over their wife to Canada.

My brother's brother-in-law is now a permanent resident of Canada and has been trying for a few years to sponsor his wife and bring her over to Canada along with their child.
Each time he has been denied the sponsorship/visa.

My mother said, what will happen if you marry and then are denied the sponsorship/permanent resident visa?

In my mind, if you have a genuine marriage then it is almost a given that you will be granted the sponsorship/permanent resident visa.

Who is correct in their thinking, my mother or myself?

You are both right. It's not an "easy" process as some people seem to think. And nothing is "a given" in immigration. If you have a properly prepared, convincing application proving the genuineness of your relationship with your spouse, then your chances of being approved are high. A great deal of work is required on the part of the couple to build a good application but it is well worth the effort.

Marriage fraud and marriages of convenience get a great deal of press and publicity. However, stats indicate that of the approved applications, around 5% of sponsors are victims of marriage fraud. So that means that around 95% of marriages are genuine. But people who are happy don't write to newspapers or TV reporters because they are busy living their lives.

Your brother-in-law's case sounds like it has other issues.

If you are in a genuine relationship and put in the time and effort to build a strong application that is honest and convincing, you should not have a problem. The point is to give it your best effort NOW, at the application stage, and not assume that CIC will just believe you. Too many people have been refused because they didn't take the application seriously from the beginning.

 

[Baloo]

Too many people have been refused because they didn't take the application seriously from the beginning.

So true.

Another point to make is, even without using an immigration consultant (or lawyer) the financial cost is not limited to the CIC fees.
Of course, the emotional cost for many people is a whole different ball game.

 

[MarkGuy]

Hi MarkGuy, which visa office would you be applying from? Some have a higher level of fraud than others and that could be why the statistics for that region are high. Just a little more information is needed to assist you

This would be a Moscow application.

 

[MarkGuy]

If you have a genuine marriage and include sufficient supporting documentation in your application to prove that your relationship is real, then your chances of being accepted are very high. (I wouldn't say that it's a given since the burden is on you to prove your relationship is genuine in your application.)

Yes this is what I was always led to believe from all of my research.

... he must be living in Canada in order to sponsor and must continue to live in Canada while the application is being processed (i.e. if he's not in Canada the sponsorship application will be rejected).

He was in Canada certainly for the first couple of applications. Since he missed his wife he did go to visit her after a couple of years. I don't know if he had an application open while he visited and if that was a factor.

Also, how did he obtain his permanent resident status? Is there any chance he declared himself single when he landed when he was in fact married? This would be another reason for rejection. Is your brother in law bankrupt or on social assistance? This would result in a rejection as well.

I don't know the details of any of his applications. I never got involved or asked about it.
I just know about him being rejected more than once.
He may have declared himself single, I don't know.
He is not bankrupt. He now has a restaurant business that is doing very well.

 

[MarkGuy]

There is no answer to this, but while your Mother may not be familiar with the process, she is fairly close to the truth.

Really? To her mind, most of the cases are rejected. Certainly this isn't what is happening?
I would have thought that 90%+ of the cases were accepted.

If you follow your logic totally, you are saying that your brother in law does not have a genuine relationship. Clearly that cant be what you mean?

His case is a bit strange. He has been in Canada now for at least five years. He came over on a work permit I believe. His sister, a Chinese citizen is also a Canadian citizen now.

Give us a bit more background information and you are likely to get more replies.

As I mentioned in my other reply I really don't know much about his applications at all and why he has been unsuccessful.
He lives with my brother and his wife. My brother is a very successful businessman who travels to China several times a year and has tried to help out by visiting the Embassy in China but they wouldn't even talk to him there.

 

[MarkGuy]

You are both right. It's not an "easy" process as some people seem to think. And nothing is "a given" in immigration.

Yes that's why I qualified that with an "almost".

However, stats indicate that of the approved applications, around 5% of sponsors are victims of marriage fraud. So that means that around 95% of marriages are genuine. But people who are happy don't write to newspapers or TV reporters because they are busy living their lives.

But you don't say the % of approved applications. You just say OF THE APPROVED applications...
So unless I get the firm number, they could be approving just 50% of the applications.

If you are in a genuine relationship and put in the time and effort to build a strong application that is honest and convincing, you should not have a problem. The point is to give it your best effort NOW, at the application stage, and not assume that CIC will just believe you. Too many people have been refused because they didn't take the application seriously from the beginning.

Thanks. Now this is what I would like to expand upon.
I have read about people sending 20 lbs or more of documents, photos etc. etc. with their application.

I was not going to go over-board at all in my application. I figured that the basic application and typical documents of proof (photos, e-mails, phone bills, Western Union transfers etc.) would suffice.

Are you saying the more you throw in the better off you'll be?
Once you cover the basics (the ones I mentioned above, it just becomes a straight quantities game).
Would they like 20 e-mails or 40, 60, 80 or more?
How many phone bills? How many photos exactly? Etc.?

 

[MarkGuy]

Another point to make is, even without using an immigration consultant (or lawyer) the financial cost is not limited to the CIC fees.
Of course, the emotional cost for many people is a whole different ball game.

Can you please expand on the financial cost above and beyond the CIC fees?
I know about the meds., notarizations, plane tickets etc.

 

[waitingintz]

Hi MarkGuy

MOST spousal sponsorship applications are approved, that's the reality (someone correct me but the stat I recall is 80% - including successful appeals). As others have said, many of those that are rejected, it's because insufficient evidence was submitted in the application. People go into the process thinking it's pretty much guaranteed and don't put enough time and effort into the application and then get rejected and have to spend lots of time and money appealing or re-applying.

How difficult it is for a particular applicant will depend on the circumstances of that application... among genuine relationships, there will definitely be more and less straight forward applications for MANY reasons (where you are applying through, applicant's personal history, availability of evidence, etc, etc)

So - yes - both of you are right. If everything is done properly applications are very likely to be accepted. But it can also be very difficult for many.

The additional costs involved are the medicals etc as you said but also all the couriering of documents (which can get expensive) and obtaining police checks. I've spent hundreds of dollars getting police checks - couriering the finger prints, paying for the check, couriering the certificate back to me and then couriering again to the visa office... Some people need to spend a lot of money getting documents translated. There's travel costs if an interview is requested (interview and medicals may not be available where the applicant is). I'm sure there are others I haven't come across...

 

[scylla]

It's in your best interest to go at least somewhat overboard if you want your application to be successful. Think of it from the perspective of the person who is going to be looking at your application and knows absolutely nothing about you. Then provide the type and amount of information that will make it easy for them to say 'yes'.

Here's what we provided:

1) 120 photos covering 5 years - travel, wedding, family events (all labeled)
2) proof of 30 flights taken together covering 5 years
3) 25 emails covering 5 years (we went light on this bit because of the amount of travel we've done together)
4) joint bills, accounts, etc. covering 2 years
5) wedding details: overall budget, copy of all bills and invoices, guest list (with the relationship of each person to us indicated), wedding invite, shower invite, shower congrats cards, wedding congrats cards, photography permit, printed program, honeymoon flight and hotel

 

[scylla]

Sorry - to add a bit more...

Think of it from the "entire package of proof" perspective.

We spent a fair amount on our wedding (and provided proof) and have also traveled a great deal together. Plus we had been together for 5 years, were married and could prove we were practically living together. So we figured we could go somewhat lighter on the communication proof.

Someone else who perhaps doesn't have a lot of proof in the wedding/travel category might chose to go way overboard on the communication.

Hope this makes sense. It does come down to a judgement call. But definitely don't skimp on the supporting documentation. This can make the difference between waiting a few months and waiting a few years.

 

[MarkGuy]

Think of it from the "entire package of proof" perspective.

Hope this makes sense. It does come down to a judgement call. But definitely don't skimp on the supporting documentation. This can make the difference between waiting a few months and waiting a few years.

Thanks Scylla this is very helpful.
I wasn't initially thinking about going overboard at all; I thought that a modest amount of quality proof would be adequate.
But now, I will reconsider and pour it on more.