A question from a former landed immigrant

[Moosefactory]

Hello forum!

I have a question which I hope can be answered here. . .

Or rather it's two questions really.

To begin at the beginning, I was once, long ago in the 1970s, a landed immigrant. My family and I were living in Canada, as my parents were doctors, who were completing their training. We lived in Kingston ON, Moosefactory ON (hence the username!), Carbonear NFL, and Halifax NS.

We returned to Ireland permanently at the end of the decade.

I've always envied my sister and brother who were born in Canada and thus retain their citizenship. I've been looking up the matter of my own status, however, and that's where the questions start.

It appears to be the case that in the past, the legal situation was that a landed immigrant who was also a minor was considered not competent, as a minor, to surrender his or her landed immigrant status. Therefore, he or she was considered (as far as I can tell) to have retained that status regardless of having left the jurisdiction. As I say, that appears to have been the case in the past: subsequently, the law appears to have been tightened up to remove this. What I have not been able to ascertain is whether or not this legal change was applied retrospectively. So - was it applied retrospectively? If it was, then that makes my past status irrelevant. If not, could it mean that my past status may, in fact, have some present relevance?

I ask because I'm applying for a job in Guelph, ON today, and it would be interesting to know where I stand on this one!

Thanks in advance.

 

[steaky]

Assume you have a Irish passport, I think you should travel to Canada before the ETA kicks in next month. After next month, you would need a PRTD (assume you have not renounce your PR status). When you arrive in Canada, you can try to see if you can get a SIN card (with your landing paper back in the 70s) so that you can work.

 

[scylla]

You must travel before the ETA process kicks in in November. You can only obtain an ETA if you have officially given up your PR status. So your only chance of retaining PR is if you travel very soon. Be aware that it's possible you may be reported at the border for failing to meet the residency requirement for retaining your PR status. If you are reported, you'll end up losing your PR status officially and will have to leave Canada. If you aren't reported, then as steaky explained, you can try obtaining a SIN (no guarantee you'll be successful). You'll need to then remain in Canada for two years before it will be safe to renew your PR status and officially have all of the benefits of PR again. During these two years, you may find it difficult to do some basic things (like get health care coverage). Overall, it's a long shot - but could be possible.

 

[Naheulbeuck]

Just so you understand better, your PR status was not revoked (unless you actually take steps yourself to revoke it, get reported upon entry for not meeting your RO or apply for anything to IRCC (sponsor, PRTD, Visitor visa where you are inviting...) you do not lose your PR status), meaning you are still a PR, however you failed to meet the RO and therefore it will be dependent on you being reported whether you can maintain your PR status or not. Since you are still a PR, you will no longer be able to travel to Canada on a visa exempt passport after November 9th as the airline will ask for your PR card (you don't have one or it expired) or an ETA (you can't apply for one as you are a PR). When you travel, you need to tell the airline that you travel as a visitor, do not mention that you are a PR or they will ask for your PR card. At the boarder/airport using your passport they should be able to determine that you are still a PR (better if you have your landing document like Steaky mentioned). For the rest Scylla and Steaky explained the process.

 

[Leon]

Service Canada no longer issues a new SIN based on a COPR unless the COPR is less than 1 year old. You can verify this here: http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/sin/before_applying.page

Note: The Confirmation of permanent residence is acceptable if used within one year of the date you became a permanent resident. The permanent resident card is required after this period.

If you already had a SIN back in the 70's, it's probably been set to dormant status based on not having been used since decades ago but you may be able to get it reactivated again without the PR card.

You can not work in Canada without a SIN. Even if you do get a SIN and set out to stay in Canada for 2 years to put your old PR status back in good standing, you would face some challenges living in Canada without a valid PR card. Your employer may ask for it for one thing. You may have problems signing up for health care and you may not be able to get a drivers license.

As for having been removed as a minor, you had to apply for it and even when the rules were relaxed, it was still reserved for people in their early 20's to figure out that they wanted to return to Canada after having been removed as minors. If you had wanted to make use of that, you would have had to apply before the age of 25 at the latest. Lately it's better to apply right away at 18 or 19. This is definitely not an option for you at this point.

If you enter Canada now as a tourist and they figure out that you are still a PR and report you for not meeting the residency requirements, you could appeal this and you would be allowed to stay in Canada as a PR and work until your appeal hearing. You would most likely lose your appeal but it could give you 1-2 years in Canada. Being under an appeal, you could apply for a PR card that is valid for one year.

Unless you want to try to keep your old PR status by, as others have said, going to Canada now before you need eTA and staying for 2 years straight in order to revive it, it is now more of a hindrance than anything else. After the eTA becomes a requirement, without PR status, you apply for eTA and you can travel to Canada, no problem. With PR status, you would have to apply for a PR travel document where they have to verify that you don't make the RO, they have to deny and give you 60 days to appeal and finally at some point after that you officially lose your old PR status and then you can apply for an eTA if you want to visit.

As for working when you don't have PR, the employer must apply for an LMIA on your behalf and if they get it, you can apply for a work permit.

Another angle on this is family. Do you have a spouse and kids that you would like to take along? If you want to revive your old PR, that would be difficult because you can not sponsor a spouse or kids when you don't meet the RO yourself. You would have to wait for 2 years until you meet the RO again. If you go to Canada on a work permit, as long as it is a skilled job, you can take your family with you.

 

[scylla]

Service Canada no longer issues a new SIN based on a COPR unless the COPR is less than 1 year old. You can verify this here: http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/sin/before_applying.page

Ah - I didn't know that. That changes things..

 

[Moosefactory]

Many thanks for all the replies, folks. Looks like a complicated business is about to become even more complicated!

With regard to moving across the Atlantic tout suite, I'm afraid that's not possible. I'm waiting on a yes or no answer regarding a funding application I submitted a couple of months, and the project behind that is still my main focus at this point. I applied for the Guelph job just to have some sort of a fall back position if the main gig didn't work out (though the chance to move back to Canada was not one I'd sneeze at either).

So I'm not in a position to drop everything and present myself at Ottawa airport, and say "hi everybody, I'm home".

From the looks of things, if I did get offered a job anywhere in Canada, it might be easier to just apply through the normal process, as if I were a normal person, and not the former 'landed immigrant' (though I guess it would be best to advise the relevant authorities of my previous record, however dormant it might be).

I should have said, I think, that I have been back to Canada twice since leaving Halifax in the late 70s - once in 1996, to visit my sister in Vancouver (where she was living at the time) and again in 2014, to participate in an academic seminar at the University of Ottawa. I don't think I mentioned my murky past to the people at the immigration desk in the airport in either case. . . should I have done so?

Thanks again - and steaky, yes, I'm an Irish passport holder.

 

[scylla]

If a Canadian company ends up having to hire you as a foreign worker rather than a PR - there's an additional process they have to go through (LMIA - labour market impact assessment). It's a long and expensive process with no guarantee of approval in the end - and it requires the employer to advertise the job and prove that no Canadian could be hired for the role. As a result, most companies aren't willing to go through it. So while you may have a job offer in Canada now - it's quite possible/likely this job may disappear once they learn they have to go through the LMIA process in order to hire you. Just wanted to make you aware so that you understand the realities of the situation you're facing. Good luck.

 

[Leon]

Many thanks for all the replies, folks. Looks like a complicated business is about to become even more complicated!

With regard to moving across the Atlantic tout suite, I'm afraid that's not possible. I'm waiting on a yes or no answer regarding a funding application I submitted a couple of months, and the project behind that is still my main focus at this point. I applied for the Guelph job just to have some sort of a fall back position if the main gig didn't work out (though the chance to move back to Canada was not one I'd sneeze at either).

So I'm not in a position to drop everything and present myself at Ottawa airport, and say "hi everybody, I'm home".

From the looks of things, if I did get offered a job anywhere in Canada, it might be easier to just apply through the normal process, as if I were a normal person, and not the former 'landed immigrant' (though I guess it would be best to advise the relevant authorities of my previous record, however dormant it might be).

I should have said, I think, that I have been back to Canada twice since leaving Halifax in the late 70s - once in 1996, to visit my sister in Vancouver (where she was living at the time) and again in 2014, to participate in an academic seminar at the University of Ottawa. I don't think I mentioned my murky past to the people at the immigration desk in the airport in either case. . . should I have done so?

Thanks again - and steaky, yes, I'm an Irish passport holder.

Most "old" PR's have probably not been mentioning it when they visit but this is about to change because in a few days eTA will be mandatory which means that visa exempt persons will have to apply for an electronic travel authorization before flying and immigration will then have a better chance to check who you are and figure out that you still have that PR status. eTA is for visitors so if you are still a PR, you can't get it. Instead, they will then ask you to apply for a PR travel document which will be refused because you don't meet the RO and through that, you will eventually lose your PR status and then you can apply for the eTA if you want to visit. If you do find an employer who is willing to go through the normal process of applying for an LMIA for you to apply for a work permit, your PR will stop you again when you apply for the work permit because you can't get a work permit while you are still a PR so you would have to renounce your status first.

 

[Mobinu]

I have a similar case as me and my parents landed in Markhem in 1990's and stayed almost 2 years there but when we were about to get our PR, we faced a tragic robbery in our home due to which my mother insisted to leave canada immidiately. I have no records for my school that i attended. I have only landing paper and a police FIR that we lodged for the robbery. We also purchased and soled a house that we lived in. Is there any way we can claim PR now ? Any experience lawyer to handle the case?

 

[scylla]

I have a similar case as me and my parents landed in Markhem in 1990's and stayed almost 2 years there but when we were about to get our PR, we faced a tragic robbery in our home due to which my mother insisted to leave canada immidiately. I have no records for my school that i attended. I have only landing paper and a police FIR that we lodged for the robbery. We also purchased and soled a house that we lived in. Is there any way we can claim PR now ? Any experience lawyer to handle the case?

How old are you?

Depending on your age, you may be able to reclaim your PR status through a humanitarian and compassionate claim.

If you're too old, then your only option would be to fly to the US and re-enter Canada by land using your COPR. If you are successful entering Canada without being reported for failing to meet the residency requirement, you would then need to live in Canada for two years without leaving before you would be able to apply to renew your PR card. If you didn't obtain a SIN when you were here previously, it will likely be difficult to work and obtain health care coverage. If, on the other hand, you are reported at the border for failing to meet the residency requirement - you'll be allowed to enter Canada but will have to appear at a hearing to explain why you should be allowed to keep your status.

 

[Mobinu]

How old are you?

Depending on your age, you may be able to reclaim your PR status through a humanitarian and compassionate claim.

If you're too old, then your only option would be to fly to the US and re-enter Canada by land using your COPR. If you are successful entering Canada without being reported for failing to meet the residency requirement, you would then need to live in Canada for two years without leaving before you would be able to apply to renew your PR card. If you didn't obtain a SIN when you were here previously, it will likely be difficult to work and obtain health care coverage. If, on the other hand, you are reported at the border for failing to meet the residency requirement - you'll be allowed to enter Canada but will have to appear at a hearing to explain why you should be allowed to keep your status.

I am 34 years now and know its too late but i recently came to know that i can reclaim my previous PR. I have also a valid express entry profile with NOC 2281. I will look for SIN in my old papers. what are the chances that i can reclaim PR as i was also i minor when i was forced to leave canada. Can anyone suggest any experienced lawyer for my case.

 

[Mobinu]

I am 34 years now and know its too late but i recently came to know that i can reclaim my previous PR. I have also a valid express entry profile with NOC 2281. I will look for SIN in my old papers. what are the chances that i can reclaim PR as i was also i minor when i was forced to leave canada. Can anyone suggest any experienced lawyer for my case.

And can i bring my spouse with me to canada when taking such a step ? We both already have US visit visa.

 

[scylla]

I am 34 years now and know its too late but i recently came to know that i can reclaim my previous PR. I have also a valid express entry profile with NOC 2281. I will look for SIN in my old papers. what are the chances that i can reclaim PR as i was also i minor when i was forced to leave canada. Can anyone suggest any experienced lawyer for my case.

There is zero chance you can reclaim your PR status through an H&C claim due to the fact you were removed from Canada as a minor. You are unfortunately far too old for this (about 15 years too old). A lawyer can't help you with this. It's simply impossible due to your age.

Your only option for reclaiming PR is to do as I described earlier (try re-entering Canada via a US/Canada land border, hope you're not reported for failing to meet PR and then live in Canada for two years straight so that you can then renew your PR card). If you do want to try this and have a spouse or children, you should note that you won't be able to sponsor them for PR until you have lived in Canada for two years. So it's quite likely you would have to be separated from them - possibly for a few years.

 

[scylla]

And can i bring my spouse with me to canada when taking such a step ? We both already have US visit visa.

Your spouse would need to apply for TRVs (visitor visas) to come to Canada. Again, you won't be able to sponsor your spouse for two years. If the TRV is approved, your spouse will be able to visit Canada temporarily - but will not be allowed to live here or work here.