Will I lose my PR status if I have been outside of Canada for 4 years because of my parents?

[zxxha]

I got my first PR card in July 2014 when I was 14. We stayed in Canada for 3 weeks after which my family flew back to my home country. We haven't been to Canada since then. It's been 3.5 years now. Does that mean I have lost my PR status? I plan on returning to Canada when I'm 18 for University in July 2018 (first chance I get) but by then 4 years will have passed outside of Canada, and it'll be obvious that I won't be able to meet the residency obligation. However, once I get there for Uni, I do plan on staying there for the next 4 years.
I now realize that that may not be possible as there is a chance I might get issued a removal order?

I couldn't have gone to Canada myself as my parents had to stay here to take care of my sick grandmother, and they wanted me to complete high school in my country first, as they couldn't send me to Canada alone. i plan on returning to Canada at the first chance I get- that is, for university. My brother already left last year on time for Uni. But I wasn't as lucky as him because I was still completing high school. I had to stay with my parents- does this count as H&C? I'll be considered as a minor removed by my parents so will that be in my favour?

What can I do about my situation? Do I need a PRTD? My parents said that it should be ok to go without a PRTD as long as I enter Canada next year and stay there for 2 years. Is that true? Won't anyone stop me there as I won't be able to meet the residency obligation in 5 years? My parents said they won't apply for a PRTD as I "don't need one" according to them. Also is my PR card still valid? Can someone please tell me if I'll be fine or do I need to do something about this now? I'm really worried as I don't want to ruin University for myself, so any advice would be appreciated!

 

[zxxha]

Anyone?

 

[rish888]

As you have a valid PR card you don't need a PRTD.

Tips to reduce chances of inspection:

Go to Toronto and use automated immigration processing.

If questioned on your residency be honest. You have a pretty good chance of being allowed in without issue given you will be returning as soon as you turn 18 and your H&C reason is usually considered valid.

There is always a chance of getting issued a departure order, but even in this worst case scenario you can still enter Canada. You just need to appeal the decision within 30 days. Then you get an hearing date (generally takes 1-2 years to get a hearing date) and you go to an immigration tribunal and explain your case. Again, here you have a pretty good chance.

If the tribunal doesn't rule in your favor then you need to leave Canada, but you can always come back on a study permit.

Note:

Even if you are not studying in Toronto still fly to Toronto airport then take a domestic flight to wherever you need to get. Statistics shows Toronto to be the most lenient airport.

The way to explain your H&C reasons:

Reason for leaving Canada:

My parents took me outside Canada, I had no say in the matter.

Reason for Continued Stay Outside Canada:

I was a minor, as such I could travel without the consent of my parents.

Reason for Return:

I've always wanted to return the first chance I get, and I'm coming now as I just turned 18/finished high school.

Plans in Canada:

Start of with some short term plans, for example showing you will be going to university, but also show that you have long term plans in Canada. Be honest about this, but generally long term plans would include wanting to settle down, get a job, become a citizen etc. Don't lie if you don't really have any long term plans because they can see through this. Just say you haven't given it much thought but you're sure you want to build a life in Canada.

The point to stress is that you had no intention to abandon Canada as your place of permanent residence. This alone is not the determinative it once way but still plays a crucial factor in a H&C analysis. You must also stress that you will not reoffend and you desire to stay in Canada long term. These are also relavent factors.

Also, once you're in Canada you cannot leave for 2 years.

Good Luck!

 

[zxxha]

As you have a valid PR card you don't need a PRTD.

Tips to reduce chances of inspection:

Go to Toronto and use automated immigration processing.

If questioned on your residency be honest. You have a pretty good chance of being allowed in without issue given you will be returning as soon as you turn 18 and your H&C reason is usually considered valid.

There is always a chance of getting issued a departure order, but even in this worst case scenario you can still enter Canada. You just need to appeal the decision within 30 days. Then you get an hearing date (generally takes 1-2 years to get a hearing date) and you go to an immigration tribunal and explain your case. Again, here you have a pretty good chance.

If the tribunal doesn't rule in your favor then you need to leave Canada, but you can always come back on a study permit.

Note:

Even if you are not studying in Toronto still fly to Toronto airport then take a domestic flight to wherever you need to get. Statistics shows Toronto to be the most lenient airport.

The way to explain your H&C reasons:

Reason for leaving Canada:

My parents took me outside Canada, I had no say in the matter.

Reason for Continued Stay Outside Canada:

I was a minor, as such I could travel without the consent of my parents.

Reason for Return:

I've always wanted to return the first chance I get, and I'm coming now as I just turned 18/finished high school.

Plans in Canada:

Start of with some short term plans, for example showing you will be going to university, but also show that you have long term plans in Canada. Be honest about this, but generally long term plans would include wanting to settle down, get a job, become a citizen etc. Don't lie if you don't really have any long term plans because they can see through this. Just say you haven't given it much thought but you're sure you want to build a life in Canada.

The point to stress is that you had no intention to abandon Canada as your place of permanent residence. This alone is not the determinative it once way but still plays a crucial factor in a H&C analysis. You must also stress that you will not reoffend and you desire to stay in Canada long term. These are also relavent factors.

Also, once you're in Canada you cannot leave for 2 years.

Good Luck!

Thank you. That's a bit reassuring.

My father will probably also be coming to Canada with me to get me settled in my dorm and stuff but then he'll leave; he can't stay as my sick grandma and mother would still be in my country. Would that pose a problem for my entry or do the H&C grounds also apply to him? Would it be better if I went alone?

 

[canuck78]

Would be better to go alone in my opinion.

 

[rish888]

If you want things to go your way, travel alone. Do not go with your father or any other person for that matter. Your father seems to have no H&C grounds, and if the officer reports him your name will probably be included.

On the other hand, if you travel alone you have a better chance.

Reporting an 18 year old in violation of his residency obligation whose going to stay permanently and has pretty valid H&C grounds is probably low on the priority list for an officer who most likely has more pressing matters to deal with. Reporting you will probably not even be worth the paperwork for an officer.

Reporting a permanent resident (you father) who left without a pressing reason and is trying to use his PR as some sort of glorified visitor's visa is probably worth the trouble.

 

[zxxha]

If you want things to go your way, travel alone. Do not go with your father or any other person for that matter. Your father seems to have no H&C grounds, and if the officer reports him your name will probably be included.

On the other hand, if you travel alone you have a better chance.

Reporting an 18 year old in violation of his residency obligation whose going to stay permanently and has pretty valid H&C grounds is probably low on the priority list for an officer who most likely has more pressing matters to deal with. Reporting you will probably not even be worth the paperwork for an officer.

Reporting a permanent resident (you father) who left without a pressing reason and is trying to use his PR as some sort of glorified visitor's visa is probably worth the trouble.

I’m not sure if my parents will let me go alone- they didn’t let my brother go alone either.

Also for my father, isn’t the fact that he was supposed to be back in our country to take care of his mother considered H&C? She lives with us and is dependent on him. We would’ve gone to Canada if she wasn’t sick.

 

[meyakanor]

Do not apply for PRTD, because you don't need one, and there is a chance that it would be rejected, despite you being a minor.

There was a very recent (within the last two years) rejection of a minor (who was removed by his parents) applying for PRTD:

I have taken into consideration that the appellant lost his permanent residence as a minor and I accept that there is no blame to be assessed for his failure to comply with his residency obligation. However, the appellant obtained his status through his parents. While his obligations to Canada as a minor may have been very minimal, neither was there sufficient evidence to find that he had to forego any opportunity in his life or suffer any other setback to his interests as a result either of immigrating to Canada or in returning to India. The evidence failed to establish that the appellant or his family ever made any concerted effort to settle in Canada. The appellant took four or five trips here totaling no more than ten months between the ages of ten and thirteen and he has fond memories of Canada, as well as some relatives.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2017/2017canlii23068/2017canlii23068.html

Again, the appellant was an 18 year old minor, so there is no a guarantee,

Also, If you still have a PR card, I would second some of the members here that you should just try to get in by flight, using one of the automated machine kiosks.

Going alone would give you better chance, and ideally, you should move the moment you turn 18, or only a couple of days after (the longer you wait, the higher the chance would be for getting reported).

Your PR was a derivative status from your father's, and if your father goes with you, and he gets reported, then CBSA would report the entire family (which goes with him).

Your father does not have much a chance to argue H&C, and even if he does, do you really want to chance him (and you) getting reported, resulting in you both having to appeal for your status?

You are dependent on your father, and if he loses his PR status, the IRCC would probably also think it is in your best interest for you to lose yours as well and live together with your parents outside Canada.

And I could not emphasize this one point enough: if you get in without getting reported, then you should be ready to be physically present for over the next 731 days, without leaving Canada at all.

 

[zxxha]

Do not apply for PRTD, because you don't need one, and there is a chance that it would be rejected, despite you being a minor.

There was a very recent (within the last two years) rejection of a minor (who was removed by his parents) applying for PRTD:



Again, the appellant was an 18 year old minor, so there is no a guarantee,

Also, If you still have a PR card, I would second some of the members here that you should just try to get in by flight, using one of the automated machine kiosks.

Going alone would give you better chance, and ideally, you should move the moment you turn 18, or only a couple of days after (the longer you wait, the higher the chance would be for getting reported).

Your PR was a derivative status from your father's, and if your father goes with you, and he gets reported, then CBSA would report the entire family (which goes with him).

Your father does not have much a chance to argue H&C, and even if he does, do you really want to chance him (and you) getting reported, resulting in you both having to appeal for your status?

You are dependent on your father, and if he loses his PR status, the IRCC would probably also think it is in your best interest for you to lose yours as well and live together with your parents outside Canada.

And I could not emphasize this one point enough: if you get in without getting reported, then you should be ready to be physically present for over the next 731 days, without leaving Canada at all.

Okay, I will try to convince my parents to just let me go by myself as I’m the only one who really intends to start a life in Canada. However I’m worried that I might not know what to do once I get there. I’d land in Toronto, and if I get detained there, I would just explain my H&C circumstances to them? And what is meant by automated machine kiosks? In the best case scenario I’d just show my PR card and be let through without much questioning?

Also I turn 18 in Feb. but I can only go to Canada in August after graduating from high school to directly enroll in uni from there. Is this still seen as coming to Canada at first chance?

 

[meyakanor]

In some airports, there are some machines which enable PR or citizens to simply scan their PR cards or Canadian passports without dealing with any custom officer.

You would eventually still have to surrender your customs sheets to the officers, and you can still be called for secondary inspection at this point, but the chances are lower.

Also, you have to keep in mind that nobody in this forum is an expert, and nobody can guarantee that you will be processed in without any problem or getting reported. This is a decision that you will have to make yourself.

Another case to illustrate the point why going alone may give you better chance:

In addition, given the age of the children, special importance should be given to the situation of the youngest of them, who was 10 years old. Once again, this child had been in Algeria since November 2015 and spent very little time in Canada during the first years of his life. The best interest of that child is clearly to continue his life with his two parents and, in the view of the IAD, this child can continue to live with his parents and his family in the family home in Algeria, where he still attends school.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2017/2017fc1052/2017fc1052.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAWInJlc2lkZW5jeSBvYmxpZ2F0aW9uIgAAAAAB&resultIndex=4

This Algerian family has a 10 year old, and IAD decided that it would be in the best interest of the youngest son to stay with his family in Algeria, and the whole family loses his PR status.

So being a minor is indeed a consideration, but is by itself not a dispositive factor in determination of an H&C case.

 

[rish888]

The returning minor scenario is very different to a minor returning with parents scenario and CBSA and IAD seem to know the difference.

The IAD routinely strips minors of their PR status in family appeals, especially if the family situation is such that a minor PR cannot fulfill the residency obligation without their parents.

On the other hand, a minor who is returning alone as soon as s/he turns 18/graduates high school is in a pretty good position to deal with CBSA/the IAD. PRTD applications are a completely different ballgame.

To the OP, tell your parents if there care about your PR to let you travel alone. Keep in mind there is no leaving for 2 years, and university breaks for 4 months in the summer, so you will need to be pretty independent over those two years, especially during the summer. Take flying alone as your first step towards establishing independence, something you will need in uni.

Your parents travelling with your brother is different because he was not in RO violation.

A quick note on the cited IAD case: (not really relavent to this case but other's may find it useful)

Rejections do happen, but chances of a rejection are low if:

1) The appeal is heard in the Eastern division. Vancouver is the worst for some reason.

2) The appeal is regarding a departure order and not a PRTD denial. The appellant being inside Canada, establishing himself/herself, contributing to society, and demonstrating a clear intent to live in Canada can really can really tip the H&C scale. Even in this case the member noted the "relavent factor was hardship." While technically speaking hardship is only 1 of 7 relavent factors, by this member's own criteria had the appellant been in Canada the hardship a loss of PR status would bring about could be quite significant depending on the degree of establishment.

If not for anything, the above reason is why entry through the land border is always better than applying for a PRTD.

3) The case is straightforward. The younger the child way upon departure the better. In the cited case the child was in and out of Canada numerous times. At 13 he could have found a way to stay in Canada if he didn't want to leave. It may have not been comfortable but there are ways. (Thus the member noting the appellant wasn't truly removed against his "will.") A child removed at 6 or 7 would have a far easier time proving that they were genuinely removed against their will.

The must successful cases are generally:

Removed as a minor at a young age.

Returns to Canda at 18.

Doesn't leave Canada for even a day.

Get established an seems sincere.

Family, trips abroad etc seems to complicate things.


General Note:

Firstly, know your rights as a PR:

1) Regardless of Residency Obligation issues you have a right to enter Canada. As soon as your PR status is established you may enter Canada without delay. If an immigration officer suspects inadmissibility they may only hold you long enough to ascertain if their suspicions are founded or not.

2) You have a right to state your H&C reasons. If reported, you have a right to a formal H&C review by a senior CBSA officer. State any information you consider relavent, the officer must consider everything.

DO NOT sign any documents renouncing your Permanent Resident status. The officer may present this as an option to you, but you have the right to decline.

Second, be honest.

Third, when stating your H&C claims give your story naturally emphasizing:

You left when your were a minor under the care of your parents. You had no say in the matter.

You are returning now because it's you first practical chance.

As an individual you have every desire to make Canada your place of permanent residence. One would guess an apology for violating your RO and a promise not to do it again can't hurt.

Best of luck!

 

[rish888]

Okay, I will try to convince my parents to just let me go by myself as I’m the only one who really intends to start a life in Canada. However I’m worried that I might not know what to do once I get there. I’d land in Toronto, and if I get detained there, I would just explain my H&C circumstances to them? And what is meant by automated machine kiosks? In the best case scenario I’d just show my PR card and be let through without much questioning?

Also I turn 18 in Feb. but I can only go to Canada in August after graduating from high school to directly enroll in uni from there. Is this still seen as coming to Canada at first chance?

They can't really "detain" you. They can ask you to wait while they make the decision to either let you go or report you and let you go.

Either way they need to let you go. As for what to do once you're there:

Airports in general are pretty self explanatory. I'm sure there will also be people to guide you.

What you need is a plan after the airport.

Arrange transport from the airport in advance. Either have someone pick you up or take a cab.

Arrange a place to stay until you move into university housing. This can be either with a family member or at a hotel.

Goes without saying, but make sure all your uni stuff is arranged.

Make sure you have money with you. Some cash (CAD) and a card of some sort, either a regular credit card or even one of those prepaid traveller's card is ideal.

After a good night's sleep do the following: (just google to find instructions)

1) Go apply for a health card. See the website of your province of destination for instructions.

2) Apply for a driver's license or a photo card. This will serve as your day to day ID. The motor authority of your province of destination has instructions on this.

3) Apply for a Social Insurance Number if you don't have one already.

4) Open a bank account. Before you leave do some research to see which bank suits your needs. Once you have an account your parents can transfer some money.

5) Create an online account with Service Canada. (You can even do this now if you have your Social Insurance Number.)

Once you have these 5 things taken care of you're good.

The only remaining things to do are:

1) Sort out whatever you need to sort out with your uni.

2) Get ready to do your taxes in April. (If applicable)

3) Figure out a plan for the summer as you can't go home.

Best of luck!


p.s:

Which unis have you applied to?
​

 

[zxxha]

They can't really "detain" you. They can ask you to wait while they make the decision to either let you go or report you and let you go.

Either way they need to let you go. As for what to do once you're there:

Airports in general are pretty self explanatory. I'm sure there will also be people to guide you.

What you need is a plan after the airport.

Arrange transport from the airport in advance. Either have someone pick you up or take a cab.

Arrange a place to stay until you move into university housing. This can be either with a family member or at a hotel.

Goes without saying, but make sure all your uni stuff is arranged.

Make sure you have money with you. Some cash (CAD) and a card of some sort, either a regular credit card or even one of those prepaid traveller's card is ideal.

After a good night's sleep do the following: (just google to find instructions)

1) Go apply for a health card. See the website of your province of destination for instructions.

2) Apply for a driver's license or a photo card. This will serve as your day to day ID. The motor authority of your province of destination has instructions on this.

3) Apply for a Social Insurance Number if you don't have one already.

4) Open a bank account. Before you leave do some research to see which bank suits your needs. Once you have an account your parents can transfer some money.

5) Create an online account with Service Canada. (You can even do this now if you have your Social Insurance Number.)

Once you have these 5 things taken care of you're good.

The only remaining things to do are:

1) Sort out whatever you need to sort out with your uni.

2) Get ready to do your taxes in April. (If applicable)

3) Figure out a plan for the summer as you can't go home.

Best of luck!


p.s:

Which unis have you applied to?
​

Thanks for all the advice! I’m applying to Waterloo, U of T, UBC and McGill.

 

[rish888]

Thank You for the advice! I applied to Waterloo, U of T, and going to apply to McGill and UBC too probably for engineering


Thanks for all the advice! I’m applying to Waterloo, U of T, UBC and McGill.

Those are all really good schools.

Just some final tips:

I'm guessing along with your PR card you have your Confirmation of Permanent Residence document?

In case you to Waterloo, UoT, or McGill, you can get essential documents and prove your PR status with your Confirmation of Permanent Residence document.

In BC on the other hand they will only accept a PR card as proof of status for health care and a driver's license. Therefore if you go to BC apply for these documents quickly before your card expires.

Wherever you go the first thing you should apply for is a Social Insurance Number (if you don't have on already) since you can only get this while your PR card is still valid. (in all provinces)

Once you get all your essential documentation it doesn't matter if your PR card expires. Your day to day ID will be your driver's license. Perhaps the only time where you'll need to prove your PR status again while you're in uni is when applying for student aid, if you choose to do so. Ontario and Quebec take the Confirmation of Permanent Residence document as proof of status. BC Student Aid probably takes it too but I'm not sure.

Good Luck!

 

[canuck78]

You need to pass a written test )might be touch screen at this point) so you can't just go in and get a driver's license. Get the study material and study then go get a driver's license. You can use your passport as a valid form of id until then.