Help with NOC - 4162 Risk Management Analyst

[Gorbzilla]

Hi all,

I'm hoping to get some advice regarding the NOC I should put my work experience under. Sorry its a long post but it needs a full explanation.

I work as a credit risk analyst in the UK, dealing with personal credit (i.e. Loans, Mortgages, Current accounts etc). It's very much analytics focused, but I don't deal with accounts and actual P&L, but more risk based approach to lending credit to consumers. I use SAS to do statistical analysis and develop statistical models as well as general credit risk portfolio management. My role does not require accountancy qualifications, nor CFA, nor any credential in fact, only a numerate degree is required.

In terms of NOC, the closest to this that I have found is the Risk Management Analyst role in NOC 4162 - Economists and economic policy researchers and analysts. My role is not really economics based, we only deal internally within the business and are not heavily impacted by market factors Of course we're impacted by monetary policy in the UK but mostly it doesn't affect our day to day jobs. This NOC has dozens of illustrative job roles (I cant post links, search "NOC 4162", its the first result), Risk Management Analyst being one of them. However, its definitely the odd one out, all others are very much broader economics, markets, or trade related.

The issue I have is that, the list of duties is very broad and seems very much focused on the economics side (given the name of the NOC code, not much of a surprise). Unfortunately this means only 3 or 4 of the duties actually match what I do (2 listed below are close, another couple are tenuous links). It really feels like they've thrown Risk Management Analyst in to this NOC because they couldn't warrant its own code and couldn't find where else to put it.

• Study mathematical formulae and statistical techniques and apply them to the testing and quantifying of economic theories and the solution of economic problems
• Study the nature of money, credit and the operation of banks and other financial institutions to develop monetary policies and forecasts of financial activity

It seems as though this may not be the right code, however, on the Job Bank (search "Job Bank Canada"), if I type in 4162 in the search bar, nearly every role is for a Risk Management Analyst. There were around a dozen new postings on Friday alone. When I read in to the detail of each role, a fair few of them are strongly related to what I do (credit risk is actually very board, and in fact so is Risk Management).

So my dilemma is, for me its clear this is the right NOC, but when immigration compare my duties to the NOC, they will find little that actually matches.

The 2nd option is 1112 - Financial Analyst. However, the list of duties doesn't really match what I do, its more accountancy and financials based. Also, the vast majority of jobs in the job bank for this NOC are very much accountancy related, requiring accountancy qualifications, which is definitely not what my job is about.

The third option is 2161 - Statisticians. However, my role is more focused on the risk management side, but using statistics (If it helps, I have a Maths degree, which is closer to the requirements of NOC 4162 and 2161, than of 1112).

My only thought is, when I hopefully get an ITA, I have to add a cover letter explaining why I believe this is the right NOC, given that the jobs under this code match what I do quite strongly.

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

[tejasmhaskar]

I applied under 1112. I am am manager in FRM practice of one of the Big 4 firms. However, we do more than building credit risk scorecards. We develop risk rating models for corporate portfolios. We provide end to end credit risk solutions to our clients. I hope my noc selection is okay. Will let you know in 2 weeks

 

[Stanlee]

Hi all,

I'm hoping to get some advice regarding the NOC I should put my work experience under. Sorry its a long post but it needs a full explanation.

I work as a credit risk analyst in the UK, dealing with personal credit (i.e. Loans, Mortgages, Current accounts etc). It's very much analytics focused, but I don't deal with accounts and actual P&L, but more risk based approach to lending credit to consumers. I use SAS to do statistical analysis and develop statistical models as well as general credit risk portfolio management. My role does not require accountancy qualifications, nor CFA, nor any credential in fact, only a numerate degree is required.

In terms of NOC, the closest to this that I have found is the Risk Management Analyst role in NOC 4162 - Economists and economic policy researchers and analysts. My role is not really economics based, we only deal internally within the business and are not heavily impacted by market factors Of course we're impacted by monetary policy in the UK but mostly it doesn't affect our day to day jobs. This NOC has dozens of illustrative job roles (I cant post links, search "NOC 4162", its the first result), Risk Management Analyst being one of them. However, its definitely the odd one out, all others are very much broader economics, markets, or trade related.

The issue I have is that, the list of duties is very broad and seems very much focused on the economics side (given the name of the NOC code, not much of a surprise). Unfortunately this means only 3 or 4 of the duties actually match what I do (2 listed below are close, another couple are tenuous links). It really feels like they've thrown Risk Management Analyst in to this NOC because they couldn't warrant its own code and couldn't find where else to put it.

• Study mathematical formulae and statistical techniques and apply them to the testing and quantifying of economic theories and the solution of economic problems
• Study the nature of money, credit and the operation of banks and other financial institutions to develop monetary policies and forecasts of financial activity

It seems as though this may not be the right code, however, on the Job Bank (search "Job Bank Canada"), if I type in 4162 in the search bar, nearly every role is for a Risk Management Analyst. There were around a dozen new postings on Friday alone. When I read in to the detail of each role, a fair few of them are strongly related to what I do (credit risk is actually very board, and in fact so is Risk Management).

So my dilemma is, for me its clear this is the right NOC, but when immigration compare my duties to the NOC, they will find little that actually matches.

The 2nd option is 1112 - Financial Analyst. However, the list of duties doesn't really match what I do, its more accountancy and financials based. Also, the vast majority of jobs in the job bank for this NOC are very much accountancy related, requiring accountancy qualifications, which is definitely not what my job is about.

The third option is 2161 - Statisticians. However, my role is more focused on the risk management side, but using statistics (If it helps, I have a Maths degree, which is closer to the requirements of NOC 4162 and 2161, than of 1112).

My only thought is, when I hopefully get an ITA, I have to add a cover letter explaining why I believe this is the right NOC, given that the jobs under this code match what I do quite strongly.

Any help would be much appreciated!

While selecting the NOC, the duties and responsibilities mentioned in the NOC should be a close match with the actual duties and responsibilities carried out by you at the respective job. You need not match the duties and responsibilities word by word, but the idea is to have the closest match in terms of the spirit of the duties and responsibilities (at least 60%-70% match).

Also, NOC should be selected on the basis of the match of actual duties and responsibilities carried out by you rather than the designation match in the NOC list. If you are not sure of your NOC, write to noc@workingincanada.gc.ca with your job title, duties and responsibilities and educational qualification, they will help you find the closest fit.

While submitting your application to CIC, you can attach the email that you receive from NOC Team along with an LOE.

 

[Gorbzilla]

Thanks both for your comments. I didn't know about noc@workingincanada.gc.ca so I will definitely write to them. Seems the safest bet, especially since the works I do is basically split across 3 different NOC codes, with none being a strong candidate alone.

@Stanlee, whats an LOE? Im still getting used to all the acronyms...

@tejasmhaskar, what made you go with 1112? Was it the list of duties specifically? Did you consider 4162 at all? Also what happens in 2 weeks? Good luck whatever it is!

 

[tejasmhaskar]

Thanks both for your comments. I didn't know about noc@workingincanada.gc.ca so I will definitely write to them. Seems the safest bet, especially since the works I do is basically split across 3 different NOC codes, with none being a strong candidate alone.

@Stanlee, whats an LOE? Im still getting used to all the acronyms...

@tejasmhaskar, what made you go with 1112? Was it the list of duties specifically? Did you consider 4162 at all? Also what happens in 2 weeks? Good luck whatever it is!

Refer to 1112 duties. Capital managment, risk management of debt instruments portfolio, analyzing financial risk etc.
I am in the final stage of my application. Should get a decision within 2 3 weeks. Will get to know then

 

[Stanlee]

Thanks both for your comments. I didn't know about noc@workingincanada.gc.ca so I will definitely write to them. Seems the safest bet, especially since the works I do is basically split across 3 different NOC codes, with none being a strong candidate alone.

@Stanlee, whats an LOE? Im still getting used to all the acronyms...

@tejasmhaskar, what made you go with 1112? Was it the list of duties specifically? Did you consider 4162 at all? Also what happens in 2 weeks? Good luck whatever it is!

LOE - Letter of Explanation

 

[CADparity]

Thanks both for your comments. I didn't know about noc@workingincanada.gc.ca so I will definitely write to them. Seems the safest bet, especially since the works I do is basically split across 3 different NOC codes, with none being a strong candidate alone.

Send a request to that email and see what they say. I would add that after you decide on your NOC code, have your reference letter tailored to the NOC description and get rid of most unrelated duties if possible, so that it's obvious to the officer that your job matches the NOC closely. These officers are not experts in the jobs they evaluate, so make it simpler and easier for them to decide that there is a match. Don't copy the NOC description verbatim, but do use some keywords from the descriptions as well as synonyms - try to match the meaning of the duties.

 

[Gorbzilla]

@tejasmhaskar, question for you if you can help - What is the job market like for credit risk type roles in Canada (specifically Toronto)?

I see job postings quite regularly on Monster, Workopolis related to Risk in a broader perspective (i.e. compliance risk, operational risk, AML, etc) but don't see much related to credit risk and model building.

I've also struggled to find out what the market is like in general, i.e. are there more jobs than candidates or vice versa?

Any thoughts you can give would be great.

@CADparity - thanks for the comments, I think I read elsewhere that it should be tailored, some of my employers are a little reluctant to veer from the job spec so I'll have to convince them..

 

[Gorbzilla]

So I emailed the NOC guys explaining my list of duties, and also noting that it generally requires a numerate degree, such as Maths, Physics, Economics, Finance etc.

They responded by saying NOC 4162 was a match. I asked for further details a) which duties of mine match with NOC 4612, and b) why NOC 1112 was not appropriate.

Their response was short - "The Educational requirements for 1112 do not match.". They made no reference to the duties.

I mean I disagree with their comment to a degree, as the educational requirements are similar, its just that the on the job credentials that you have to work on for NOC 1112 dont exist for NOC 4162 (CFA or accountancy qualification).

Has anyone else seen the NOC team focus so specifically on the educational requirements? My understanding from pretty much everyone's comments is that only the list of duties really matter (for which reason I will be going for 4162)

 

[salmanmehmud]

So I emailed the NOC guys explaining my list of duties, and also noting that it generally requires a numerate degree, such as Maths, Physics, Economics, Finance etc.

They responded by saying NOC 4162 was a match. I asked for further details a) which duties of mine match with NOC 4612, and b) why NOC 1112 was not appropriate.

Their response was short - "The Educational requirements for 1112 do not match.". They made no reference to the duties.

I mean I disagree with their comment to a degree, as the educational requirements are similar, its just that the on the job credentials that you have to work on for NOC 1112 dont exist for NOC 4162 (CFA or accountancy qualification).

Has anyone else seen the NOC team focus so specifically on the educational requirements? My understanding from pretty much everyone's comments is that only the list of duties really matter (for which reason I will be going for 4162)

Hey Gorbzilla,

I am in a very similar situation to yours. I work as an Operational Risk Management Auditor with a firm. We do Risk Analysis and Audit of Operational procedures using statistical techniques and the most relevant NOC was 4162. Could you please let me know the outcome of your application?

 

[Gorbzilla]

Hey salmanmehmud,

My application was approved! I had to get the list of duties signed by my managers (With approval from HR of each company), and I just reworded my duties to better align with the duties in NOC 4162.

I also, in my Letter of Explanation, mentioned that most jobs on the job bank for NOC 4162 match what I do.

Just be very diligent with matching your duties with the NOC duties (I only matched about 5 of the 15 duties, so the idea of having to match 70%+ is not always true). Diligent but make sure they still remain true.

Best of luck!

Gorb

 

[salmanmehmud]

Hey salmanmehmud,

My application was approved! I had to get the list of duties signed by my managers (With approval from HR of each company), and I just reworded my duties to better align with the duties in NOC 4162.

I also, in my Letter of Explanation, mentioned that most jobs on the job bank for NOC 4162 match what I do.

Just be very diligent with matching your duties with the NOC duties (I only matched about 5 of the 15 duties, so the idea of having to match 70%+ is not always true). Diligent but make sure they still remain true.

Best of luck!

Gorb

Thanks for the reply gorbzilla. Congratulations and all the best with your stay in Canada.

Actually I also have very few duties that match with the NOC but they are very relevant to the Risk Management which is stated in the NOC 4162. According to our company policy, I can only get approval from the HR director and I am hoping that they would eventually accept it. I appreciate your suggestion for writing an LOE to explain my duties further and present some relevance to the selected NOC.

BR

 

[jaideepssingh]

Hi everyone,
im in a similar situation and think NOC 4162 is the best match since it focuses on financial risk management from a statistical/quantitative perspective. i have done my masters in financial engineering and working with a consulting firm in their risk management advisory business. my duties require everything from modeling, model validation, risk management (market, treasury, credit), essentially use of tools from statistics, computer science and financial math. im still in the initial stages and any advice regarding NOC code will be greatly appreciated. thanks
JD

 

[sunil.bandaru]

Hi everyone, I am struggling with the same issue. I have a post-graduate degree in Statistics and have experience in validating risk models across various risks, and I am currently working on the Operational Risk models. Any advise on what the NOC should be? Apologies for a rather basic question, does the NOC we provide in any way restrict our opportunities while searching for jobs?
I would also highly appreciate if you let me know how giving NOC 4162 has worked out for you guys.
Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[merlz]

Hey Guys, i am also in the similar role and confused between NOC 1112, 4162, 1122 and 1114. Can you please guide if possible? I am not able to submit my EE profile coz i am stuck with this.

My current job responsibilities are :

Senior Compliance Risk Analyst - Compliance and Control
· Supporting the yearly execution of the enterprise wide compliance risk assessment (EWCRA) as per defined timelines, assessed final output of previous year and incorporate deliverables into the current year plan and track progress of remedial actions including updating of compliance manuals related to CRA using best practices to provide visibility and transparency of status and issues in the CRA process thus ensuring smooth flow of the process
· Leading the platform testing process and execution testing of test scripts for various technical requirements which includes UAT testing (end to end) and preparing tactical user stories for various changes to be done in the CRA Tool.
· Actively engaged in Quality Assurance (QA) process, reporting and all the adhoc requests facilitated by the stakeholders.
· Generating and preparing of CRA Business results for all senior stakeholders
· Analyzing control gaps to identify the function related Gaps affecting the business, rules analysis for various policies related to various regulations.
· Preparing Training decks for various respondents and QA reviewers to get a better understanding of the process and CRA tool.
· Calculating and aggregating the conduct risk key risk frameworks for various policy risk to themes mapping.
· Assisting in the RCSA and CMRA calculation for Protiviti Risk Assessment business unit alignment