American entering with intent to marry/apply for PR

[starbeyondflames]

Hello - my American fiance (engaged for one year, together for about two) would like to move to Canada so we can apply for the Outland spousal PR.

I am wondering how we can do so without him being denied entry by CBSA for suspicion of dual intent. He crosses via land, and has visited me 20+ times.

We intend on keeping his bank account and address in America, but otherwise he will be quitting his job and living with me. My questions are:
-Are these sufficient ties?
-Should he enter the border prepared to show his bank account and address information at the border and be upfront about his intention to enter, marry, apply for PR, and stay until he obtains OWP? Should he just enter and advise CBSA its to visit me per usual and not bring up the intent to apply for PR at all? My concern with this is he never has a return ticket since he drives up.
-In addition, how can he go about extending his 6 month stay while in the country as an American?
-is it true he should not try to leave the country before obtaining OWP?

As for our relationship - we've been engaged for a year and together for two, and spend at least a week together every month. So the proof of our relationship being genuine is ample, even without the marriage certificate. I'm not too concerned about that part. But someone please feel free to tell me if its best we live together for a bit first.

In addition, one of the first times he visited me he was pulled into secondary screening and questioned for hours. He was ultimately deemed admissible and has successfully visited me many times since, but we are wondering if an ATIP to determine what notes/flags are on his file is worth having prior to filing


thanks in advance

 

[Ponga]

$64k Question:
How soon to you plan to marry, if he is admitted?


CBSA is very much aware of Dual Intent, so no need to worry about any `suspicion'.

While I have no doubt that your current relationship stage is legitimate, you are not a common-law couple or married, which is the only way that you could apply to sponsor him for Permanent Resident status. Until things change with your relationship, he can only really enter Canada as a visitor, per CBSA's approval of course.

In terms of your first question, he should NOT volunteer information regarding his plans. If, however, he is asked by the CBSA officer if he has such plans, he should [obviously] answer truthfully.

If asked, he should have evidence of:
- STRONG ties `back home' (job, home, `established life', etc.)

- Travel Insurance (for the duration of his stay) in case he needs medical care while he is in Canada. This shows that he understands that he does not want to be a burden on the Canadian medical system.

- If he `drives up' there's no expectation of having a `return ticket'. If he is a U.S. citizen using a valid U.S. Passport he may be allowed to enter and remain for up to 6 months, but that is never guaranteed. If he is granted entry with no discussion regarding his exit date, he would have that 6 month authorization. He would then apply to extend his visitor status just before it expires (online the day before) which would give him `Maintained Status' during the processing of the extension request so that he remains a legal visitor. Alternatively, he could leave and attempt to return, but could be denied entry. No one can predict what happens when he (or any other foreign national) seeks entry into Canada. Sometimes...it's simply the mood of the CBSA officer.

Living together `for a bit' doesn't do much. getting married ASAP and then submitting the Spousal Sponsorship application, does.

Good luck!

 

[starbeyondflames]

$64k Question:
How soon to you plan to marry, if he is admitted?


CBSA is very much aware of Dual Intent, so no need to worry about any `suspicion'.

While I have no doubt that your current relationship stage is legitimate, you are not a common-law couple or married, which is the only way that you could apply to sponsor him for Permanent Resident status. Until things change with your relationship, he can only really enter Canada as a visitor, per CBSA's approval of course.

In terms of your first question, he should NOT volunteer information regarding his plans. If, however, he is asked by the CBSA officer if he has such plans, he should [obviously] answer truthfully.

If asked, he should have evidence of:
- STRONG ties `back home' (job, home, `established life', etc.)

- Travel Insurance (for the duration of his stay) in case he needs medical care while he is in Canada. This shows that he understands that he does not want to be a burden on the Canadian medical system.

- If he `drives up' there's no expectation of having a `return ticket'. If he is a U.S. citizen using a valid U.S. Passport he may be allowed to enter and remain for up to 6 months, but that is never guaranteed. If he is granted entry with no discussion regarding his exit date, he would have that 6 month authorization. He would then apply to extend his visitor status just before it expires (online the day before) which would give him `Maintained Status' during the processing of the extension request so that he remains a legal visitor. Alternatively, he could leave and attempt to return, but could be denied entry. No one can predict what happens when he (or any other foreign national) seeks entry into Canada. Sometimes...it's simply the mood of the CBSA officer.

Living together `for a bit' doesn't do much. getting married ASAP and then submitting the Spousal Sponsorship application, does.

Good luck!

thank you, this is very helpful! A few questions in return:

-why "$64K question" - what did I miss? lol
-he plans on quitting his job so he can live with me. Would it be best to maybe just quit from Canada after entry so he has the job to prove ties at the border?
-is there a way for him to see how long his authorized stay is upon entry? We can assume 6 months, but if he ends up giving CBSA an estimated timeframe, will they hold him to that on record?

We would plan on getting married within weeks of his entry and certainly before submitting the application, considering I understand its a bit of a wait for the marriage certificate to arrive anyway.

Thank you for the travel insurance advice in particular, thats great

 

[Ponga]

thank you, this is very helpful! A few questions in return:

-why "$64K question" - what did I miss? lol
-he plans on quitting his job so he can live with me. Would it be best to maybe just quit from Canada after entry so he has the job to prove ties at the border?
-is there a way for him to see how long his authorized stay is upon entry? We can assume 6 months, but if he ends up giving CBSA an estimated timeframe, will they hold him to that on record?

We would plan on getting married within weeks of his entry and certainly before submitting the application, considering I understand its a bit of a wait for the marriage certificate to arrive anyway.

Thank you for the travel insurance advice in particular, thats great

- Telling us upfront when you plan to marry would have been helpful.

- Yes, this way he could answer truthfully if asked if he has a job.

- Not unless his passport is stamped with a `must exit by' date. Otherwise, he needs to do the math (he has 182 days, safely) unless told otherwise (with written proof).

- The clock is your nemesis in terms of submitting the Sponsorship application. Have you even begun researching what is involved? Have you read through the Guide to understand what is required from each of you?
Does he have any potential `issues' that would need to be addressed (i.e. criminality, past activity, etc.)?


Also, it's of paramount importance to know (and engrave into your memory) that he will NOT be LIVING with you in Canada; he will be visiting and `staying' with you during his stay.

 

[starbeyondflames]

- Telling us upfront when you plan to marry would have been helpful.

- Yes, this way he could answer truthfully if asked if he has a job.

- Not unless his passport is stamped with a `must exit by' date. Otherwise, he needs to do the math (he has 182 days, safely) unless told otherwise (with written proof).

- The clock is your nemesis in terms of submitting the Sponsorship application. Have you even begun researching what is involved? Have you read through the Guide to understand what is required from each of you?
Does he have any potential `issues' that would need to be addressed (i.e. criminality, past activity, etc.)?


Also, it's of paramount importance to know (and engrave into your memory) that he will NOT be LIVING with you in Canada; he will be visiting and `staying' with you during his stay.

Thank you. Yes I am aware of what is required of us and have done research on the application portion itself. It seems straight forward. In transparency, we are about 10 months into the American K1 visa process and are abandoning it so he can move here instead. Because of this, we have a lot of the proof of relationship etc already compiled, but will add more post-marriage, of course.
No criminal record, not even any traffic tickets. But he was pulled into secondary once about a year and a half ago upon entering Canada. They went through his bag, and found a book by a well-known philosopher, purchased on amazon, that the officer felt represented far-right ideology. Because of this, they went through his phone and were unhappy with some memes (literally memes) they deemed offensive and asked him to explain himself. After some time in questioning, they determined he was admissible. Since then, he has been pulled into secondary for some minor additional questioning twice, and has entered without issue 20+ times. We intend on filing an ATIP to determine the scale of his border notes to see how we should address it, if at all, in the application itself.

 

[armoured]

Thank you. Yes I am aware of what is required of us and have done research on the application portion itself. It seems straight forward. In transparency, we are about 10 months into the American K1 visa process and are abandoning it so he can move here instead. Because of this, we have a lot of the proof of relationship etc already compiled, but will add more post-marriage, of course.
No criminal record, not even any traffic tickets. But he was pulled into secondary once about a year and a half ago upon entering Canada. They went through his bag, and found a book by a well-known philosopher, purchased on amazon, that the officer felt represented far-right ideology. Because of this, they went through his phone and were unhappy with some memes (literally memes) they deemed offensive and asked him to explain himself. After some time in questioning, they determined he was admissible. Since then, he has been pulled into secondary for some minor additional questioning twice, and has entered without issue 20+ times. We intend on filing an ATIP to determine the scale of his border notes to see how we should address it, if at all, in the application itself.

While I agree with most of the points above in principle...

...truth is, that while he should prepare overall and keep in mind all the stuff above, I think the main thing is to not overthink and not stress about it. (Yes, nervousness will tend to be picked up and result in higher chances of secondary and complications).

Reality is that he's been to Canada many times and has a track record of coming in and out, i.e. not overstaying.

A few simple things will probably make this go smoothly:
-Possibly most important, what he has with him and in his car should be consistent with a 'trip' - no furniture, no pets, no household plants, etc. If you say you're coming for a weekend and have a U-haul of all his worldly belongings, that's not going to be credible.
-If he's unsure exactly how long he's staying, it's okay to say for a couple of months to see his girlfriend. Volunteer about as much as he has on all his previous trips. No more.
-Job? Well, if he's comfortable saying he's still employed, it's probably fine. Truth is they're probably not going to call from the border to his employer to check. If he's not comfortable - quit after he's already in Canada.
-Hinted at above: don't volunteer information, just answer the questions. Truthfully but no extraneous details.
-It's okay for him to change his mind after entering - i.e. was planning to go back and decided to stay (but only as permitted by IRCC).
-From the sounds of your 'getting married a few weeks after entry', it sounds like you haven't planned a super big wedding. That's fine. Another point on which 'plans changed', 'we decided to go to city hall.' (And honestly not that unusual - I did a marriage like this in Canada, we arrived not knowing if it was going to be possible [side note about some countries have much more demanding bureaucracy about marriage].) At any rate, they're not going to discover the wedding cake for 500 guests in his van, his tux, and the best man.

Put differently - if this is "he is coming up for a couple months and then we got married and he decided to stay" - not unusual and no worries, under Canadian immigration, this is manageable. (If there was a paperwork issue at city hall, would it be a super big change? No, he'd go back home and get the docs required)

And yes, should it really come up and he gets pushed on on the point at the border, 'yes we are considering marriage, even soon, but we haven't even booked a date at city hall' and blah blah blah. And yes, if admitted, he knows he has to leave when his status runs out (which doesn't preclude him extending it).

 

[starbeyondflames]

thank you, this eased my mind a bit!

While I agree with most of the points above in principle...

...truth is, that while he should prepare overall and keep in mind all the stuff above, I think the main thing is to not overthink and not stress about it. (Yes, nervousness will tend to be picked up and result in higher chances of secondary and complications).

Reality is that he's been to Canada many times and has a track record of coming in and out, i.e. not overstaying.

A few simple things will probably make this go smoothly:
-Possibly most important, what he has with him and in his car should be consistent with a 'trip' - no furniture, no pets, no household plants, etc. If you say you're coming for a weekend and have a U-haul of all his worldly belongings, that's not going to be credible.
-If he's unsure exactly how long he's staying, it's okay to say for a couple of months to see his girlfriend. Volunteer about as much as he has on all his previous trips. No more.
-Job? Well, if he's comfortable saying he's still employed, it's probably fine. Truth is they're probably not going to call from the border to his employer to check. If he's not comfortable - quit after he's already in Canada.
-Hinted at above: don't volunteer information, just answer the questions. Truthfully but no extraneous details.
-It's okay for him to change his mind after entering - i.e. was planning to go back and decided to stay (but only as permitted by IRCC).
-From the sounds of your 'getting married a few weeks after entry', it sounds like you haven't planned a super big wedding. That's fine. Another point on which 'plans changed', 'we decided to go to city hall.' (And honestly not that unusual - I did a marriage like this in Canada, we arrived not knowing if it was going to be possible [side note about some countries have much more demanding bureaucracy about marriage].) At any rate, they're not going to discover the wedding cake for 500 guests in his van, his tux, and the best man.

Put differently - if this is "he is coming up for a couple months and then we got married and he decided to stay" - not unusual and no worries, under Canadian immigration, this is manageable. (If there was a paperwork issue at city hall, would it be a super big change? No, he'd go back home and get the docs required)

And yes, should it really come up and he gets pushed on on the point at the border, 'yes we are considering marriage, even soon, but we haven't even booked a date at city hall' and blah blah blah. And yes, if admitted, he knows he has to leave when his status runs out (which doesn't preclude him extending it).

Thank you, this eased my mind a bit! I have spent the last year becoming intimately familiar with the American K1 process so choosing to switch gears has my head spinning.
Just a question for you as far as opinion on timeline goes:
we plan to marry in Feb or March, then we have a trip to Japan planned for about 2 weeks in April. Wondering if we should simply file when we return, and if it would raise any red flags for him to travel back into Canada with me and stay, essentially resetting the 6 month clock?

 

[appwarez]

Hello - my American fiance (engaged for one year, together for about two) would like to move to Canada so we can apply for the Outland spousal PR.

I am wondering how we can do so without him being denied entry by CBSA for suspicion of dual intent. He crosses via land, and has visited me 20+ times.

We intend on keeping his bank account and address in America, but otherwise he will be quitting his job and living with me. My questions are:
-Are these sufficient ties?
-Should he enter the border prepared to show his bank account and address information at the border and be upfront about his intention to enter, marry, apply for PR, and stay until he obtains OWP? Should he just enter and advise CBSA its to visit me per usual and not bring up the intent to apply for PR at all? My concern with this is he never has a return ticket since he drives up.
-In addition, how can he go about extending his 6 month stay while in the country as an American?
-is it true he should not try to leave the country before obtaining OWP?

As for our relationship - we've been engaged for a year and together for two, and spend at least a week together every month. So the proof of our relationship being genuine is ample, even without the marriage certificate. I'm not too concerned about that part. But someone please feel free to tell me if its best we live together for a bit first.

In addition, one of the first times he visited me he was pulled into secondary screening and questioned for hours. He was ultimately deemed admissible and has successfully visited me many times since, but we are wondering if an ATIP to determine what notes/flags are on his file is worth having prior to filing


thanks in advance

I would recommend being truthful if CBSA asks about his/her plans. Your fiancé can potentially enter Canada as a visitor while intending to apply for PR later, because Canada recognizes the concept of dual intent. However, he must still satisfy CBSA that he will comply with the conditions of his temporary stay if PR is not approved or he is not authorized to remain longer. He should not assume he can work until the permit is approved. ordering ATIP/CBSA records may help you understand what was recorded.

 

[armoured]

Just a question for you as far as opinion on timeline goes:
we plan to marry in Feb or March, then we have a trip to Japan planned for about 2 weeks in April. Wondering if we should simply file when we return, and if it would raise any red flags for him to travel back into Canada with me and stay, essentially resetting the 6 month clock?

It's probably not that big a deal either way, but since you may not get the marriage certificate in time anyway (some provinces I've heard are taking more than a month), probably easiest to plan on submitting when you're back.

 

[canuck78]

thank you, this eased my mind a bit!

Thank you, this eased my mind a bit! I have spent the last year becoming intimately familiar with the American K1 process so choosing to switch gears has my head spinning.
Just a question for you as far as opinion on timeline goes:
we plan to marry in Feb or March, then we have a trip to Japan planned for about 2 weeks in April. Wondering if we should simply file when we return, and if it would raise any red flags for him to travel back into Canada with me and stay, essentially resetting the 6 month clock?

When does he want to try to enter Canada because February/March is up to 5 months if he enters in October which is a long visit. Does he have the savings to show he can survive without working? If he leaves Canada and tries to reenter after your trip to Japan it will appear as though he has been living in Canada. Normally I would be less concerned given he is a US citizen but his application has been flagged. If possible it would be best to show that you have started the spousal sponsorship process but it can take many weeks to get proof of your marriage registration. Would have proof that you applied for a marriage registration if you can’t show proof of sponsorship. If you can get the registration make sure to apply for Outland sponsorship if you will be leaving Canada. You’ll only be able to apply for an OWP once he receives AOR and is in Canada. In general when it comes to CBSA don’t lie but don’t provide additional information except if it is helpful to you like proof that you have applied for spousal sponsorship.

 

[armoured]

When does he want to try to enter Canada because February/March is up to 5 months if he enters in October which is a long visit.

We would plan on getting married within weeks of his entry and certainly before submitting the application, considering I understand its a bit of a wait for the marriage certificate to arrive anyway.

we plan to marry in Feb or March, then we have a trip to Japan planned for about 2 weeks in April.

Dates and timelines have been a bit hazy and vague in this thread.

@starbeyondflames, you should be more clear and specific - on the one hand, 'getting married within weeks of entry', but marrying in Feb/Mar, then travelling.

If indeed he's entering in October/November, I would share some concerns as above - staying four or five months and then doing a trip to Japan and returning direct to Canada - that does look like intent to live here. If he enters in February and then you depart on a trip a month or so later - different situation.

This is not to micro-manage what you're doing (it's your life) but to emphasize that perceptions of things can change - no forum like this can account for all the details, esp when not known.

A generality I'd toss out - for the most part in your interests to marry sooner (since your relationship proof solid); if the issue is planning a bigger wedding, do the small civil/courthouse procedure and hold your 'celebratory' ceremony/events whenever you want. (Still have a few friends and family at the civl wedding for the sposnorship app).