Regional Case Officer also Inspect PR Residency Obligation?

[Maple66]

Dear all,
Need your expertise, advice and sharing!
Thought lost PR status without meeting 2 year residency obligation in 5 years, Got tourist visa approval, then submitted Spousal Sponsorship PR application out of Canada.
After that, entered Canada, applied for Open work permit (OWP) soon, which is not approved yet for a few months. Then found out I am still PR and started working, very critical to whole family as difficult to find jobs.

Regional Case officer for Spousal Sponsorship PR (which was put on hold now) requested me to start PR card renewal application, though I informed them that I have not lived for 2 years yet and my job is critical to family.
. Can I negotiate with Regional Case officer again requesting if I can start PR card renewal after living to 2 years?

. Are they also very strict with residency obligation to order me to act accordingly?
If the insist me renewing PR card, I will lose PR status then OWP takes time, so I will lose my job? what shall I do?

Appreciate your great suggestions

 

[canuck78]

Dear all,
Need your expertise, advice and sharing!
Thought lost PR status without meeting 2 year residency obligation in 5 years, Got tourist visa approval, then submitted Spousal Sponsorship PR application out of Canada.
After that, entered Canada, applied for Open work permit (OWP) soon, which is not approved yet for a few months. Then found out I am still PR and started working, very critical to whole family as difficult to find jobs.

Regional Case officer for Spousal Sponsorship PR (which was put on hold now) requested me to start PR card renewal application, though I informed them that I have not lived for 2 years yet and my job is critical to family.
. Can I negotiate with Regional Case officer again requesting if I can start PR card renewal after living to 2 years?

. Are they also very strict with residency obligation to order me to act accordingly?
If the insist me renewing PR card, I will lose PR status then OWP takes time, so I will lose my job? what shall I do?

Appreciate your great suggestions

Very strange that you were able to obtain a TRV. You can try to negotiate but no guarantees. You are now on IRCC’s radar for non-compliance. When did you get PR and how much time have you spent in Canada? In the last 5 years? Assume they want IRCC to determine whether you can keep PR or not and then they would process the sponsorship.

 

[Maple66]

Very strange that you were able to obtain a TRV. You can try to negotiate but no guarantees. You are now on IRCC’s radar for non-compliance. When did you get PR and how much time have you spent in Canada? In the last 5 years? Assume they want IRCC to determine whether you can keep PR or not and then they would process the sponsorship.

6 years ago got 1st PR card, up to now, still no meet 2 years in last 5 years. the Kay thing is that I do not want to lose my job, which is critical to my family. thanks

 

[Besram]

This looks like a situation where a consultation with a reputable immigration lawyer is warranted.

 

[scylla]

Dear all,
Need your expertise, advice and sharing!
Thought lost PR status without meeting 2 year residency obligation in 5 years, Got tourist visa approval, then submitted Spousal Sponsorship PR application out of Canada.
After that, entered Canada, applied for Open work permit (OWP) soon, which is not approved yet for a few months. Then found out I am still PR and started working, very critical to whole family as difficult to find jobs.

Regional Case officer for Spousal Sponsorship PR (which was put on hold now) requested me to start PR card renewal application, though I informed them that I have not lived for 2 years yet and my job is critical to family.
. Can I negotiate with Regional Case officer again requesting if I can start PR card renewal after living to 2 years?

. Are they also very strict with residency obligation to order me to act accordingly?
If the insist me renewing PR card, I will lose PR status then OWP takes time, so I will lose my job? what shall I do?

Appreciate your great suggestions

Talk to an immigration lawyer.

 

[canuck78]

6 years ago got 1st PR card, up to now, still no meet 2 years in last 5 years. the Kay thing is that I do not want to lose my job, which is critical to my family. thanks

How much time have you spent in Canada? In the past 5 years? Have you ever applied for a PRTD? Agree you need a lawyer. Extremely strange and disturbing that you were able to get the TRV.

 

[armoured]

then submitted Spousal Sponsorship PR application out of Canada.

Are you married to a Canadian PR or citizen?

After that, entered Canada, applied for Open work permit (OWP) soon, which is not approved yet for a few months. Then found out I am still PR and started working, very critical to whole family as difficult to find jobs.

If you are a PR, you are allowed to work - period. Did you ever obtain a social security number when you were in Canada before? That is your social security number - you can use it. (There's a separate topic I won't get into now of whether it has been put on hold - which does NOT affect your right to work).

Regional Case officer for Spousal Sponsorship PR (which was put on hold now) requested me to start PR card renewal application, though I informed them that I have not lived for 2 years yet and my job is critical to family.
. Can I negotiate with Regional Case officer again requesting if I can start PR card renewal after living to 2 years?

. Are they also very strict with residency obligation to order me to act accordingly?
If the insist me renewing PR card, I will lose PR status then OWP takes time, so I will lose my job? what shall I do?

Appreciate your great suggestions

As others have said: you should probably consult with a lawyer.

That said: I don't think the suggestion you submit a PR card renewal application is incorrect. Start preparing it.

 

[Copingwithlife]

https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/41-2/ETHI/meeting-16/evidence

For the umpteenth time

If a SIN has been inactive for FIVE YEARS or more , it becomes dormant and flagged in the system

A literal flag on the persons master file . I personally don’t care if people don’t do what they need to do to reactivate it . However failure to reactivate can cause issues with benefits and tax filing

If someone hasn’t been in Canada for five years and make it into Canada without complying with their RO, yah, they should have to jump thru hoops to avoid issues
But once again , I’m not like others here , clutching their proverbial pearls on the so called hardships of people that can’t spend two out of five years in this bloody country


“The dormant flag identifies SINs that have not been active for a period of five consecutive years or more—meaning that there was no income-related activity, such as filing taxes, or interaction with government programs during this period. Since then, someone with a dormant flag on their SIN file must provide original proof of identity to have their SIN reactivated, an original birth certificate if born in Canada, or Citizenship and Immigration Canada documents if born outside of the country.
This reactivation is done either in person at a Service Canada centre if they reside in Canada, or by mail if they reside outside of Canada. In addition, to better assist agents in detecting potential identity fraud and theft, the SIN proof-of-identity internal Intranet reference website was developed in 2003. Through this website, agents responsible for the issuance of SINs have access to detailed information on what to look for in identity documents to ensure their authenticity.”

 

[armoured]

https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/41-2/ETHI/meeting-16/evidence

For the umpteenth time

If a SIN has been inactive for FIVE YEARS or more , it becomes dormant and flagged in the system

A literal flag on the persons master file . I personally don’t care if people don’t do what they need to do to reactivate it . However failure to reactivate can cause issues with benefits and tax filing

If someone hasn’t been in Canada for five years and make it into Canada without complying with their RO, yah, they should have to jump thru hoops to avoid issues
But once again , I’m not like others here , clutching their proverbial pearls on the so called hardships of people that can’t spend two out of five years in this bloody country

Since I presume this is directed at me:
-There's nothing in your link that indicates a dormant SIN means one cannot use their SIN to work.
-There's nothing in there that suggests a requirement that having some 'current' (eg recently issued) PR card is required to reactivate the card.
-The stated purpose of this dormancy program is to protect against identity theft and benefits fraud. A PR who has not had their PR revoked and is using their own SIN to work and pay taxes in no way contradicts this.

Further, though, thanks for the link: it states clearly that "An electronic link with Citizenship and Immigration's database was established, allowing for the verification of identity and status of permanent and temporary residents who arrived in Canada after 1972."

I agree that PRs who have had their status put in dormancy for absence/lack of activity should 'jump through hoops.' Reasonable hoops, of course for paying taxes, and certainly for accessing any type of (related) benefit. But they seem to have access to the information needed, i.e. whether or not the PR is still a PR.

It is not the job of ESD/CRA to enforce compliance with the residency obligation; if they can identify the individual (using eg passport, expired PR cards, COPR, etc), they can check the status of the PR direct in the IRCC database.

Repeat as several times before: if IRCC/CBSA/'the government' wish to get more strict about the residency obligation, they should do so using the mechanisms they have available (i.e. at or before the border).

A PR who is in Canada already, whether in compliance with the RO or not, is in Canada legally - until that status is revoked - and has a right to work. IRCC/ESD/etc cannot withhold that right to work via the backdoor when they have all the tools needed.

As previously discussed: as far as I can tell all of the individuals who've arrived this way have eventually worked it out ('jumped through the hoops', I guess); and to work one only needs your SIN and ESD/CRA can inquire through the employer if they wish to check the identity. This seems to work in all cases I've heard of.

All of which to say: the dormant SIN issue can come up, but there's no need to scare anyone that it's insurmountable. They're not doing anything illegal and proceeding is fully within the rights of the PR - once they're in. If ESD/CRA won't un-dormant it and particularly if it being dormant is in any way an impediment to working, they should push, complain, and because - as above - ESD's own ADM has made it clear that they do in fact have access to the IRCC database to get the information needed to confirm status.

Side note: the situation for those without SINs (for whatever reason) or some whose records are very old (pre-1972) may have considerably more difficulty. I don't know what to do about those, they'll need to speak to lawyers. (Those who never had a SIN should be able to get one somehow, but I've no idea how that would work, their situation is different - 'reasonable' requests for ID and status may indeed be a serious problem - lawyers needed possibly.)

 

[abff08f4813c]

This looks like a situation where a consultation with a reputable immigration lawyer is warranted.

I completely agree with this. OP, I think you might be caught between a rock and a hard place.

6 years ago got 1st PR card, up to now, still no meet 2 years in last 5 years. the Kay thing is that I do not want to lose my job, which is critical to my family. thanks

The thing is, it might not be up to you. I'm not aware of any restrictions preventing the officer handling your spousal application from filling a section 44(1) report. (This would be unusual, but that's because it's unusual for folks who already have PR to make this application.)

Agree you need a lawyer. Extremely strange and disturbing that you were able to get the TRV.

Yeah, this part doesn't make sense to me. Usually when one applies for a TRV, from what I understand, IRCC discovers that the person never formally lost PR and then asks them to either voluntarily renounce the PR for the application to proceed, or else requests that the application be withdrawn - then the PR has to try to enter Canada, possibly without meeting RO and possibly triggering a section 44(1) report (or e.g. a loss of PR after applying for and being denied a PRTD).

Are you married to a Canadian PR or citizen?

If you are a PR, you are allowed to work - period. Did you ever obtain a social security number when you were in Canada before? That is your social security number - you can use it. (There's a separate topic I won't get into now of whether it has been put on hold - which does NOT affect your right to work).

Agreed. If OP never formally lost PR, OP still has the right to work, only after a formal process has concluded in the OP losing PR would the OP be unable to work in Canada.

That said: I don't think the suggestion you submit a PR card renewal application is incorrect. Start preparing it.

No harm in preparing for it. But I do wonder if the OP could get away with it - ignore the spousal app for the next two years (letting it stay on hold - perhaps the officer involved in that app simply won't revisit the matter until some other status update occurs), and then only apply for the renewal once RO is met. Once card is successfully renewed and RO met, then the spousal apps can be withdrawn safely (or else they'll just be denied somehow on account of the OP being PR already). Things to discuss with the lawyer.

It is not the job of ESD/CRA to enforce compliance with the residency obligation

Repeat as several times before: if IRCC/CBSA/'the government' wish to get more strict about the residency obligation, they should do so using the mechanisms they have available (i.e. at or before the border).

A PR who is in Canada already, whether in compliance with the RO or not, is in Canada legally - until that status is revoked - and has a right to work. IRCC/ESD/etc cannot withhold that right to work

Agree completely. The only bit I'd add is that it's not clear to me that OP's SIN would have even been flagged as dormant. Possibly there's a post I missed detailing the OP's timeline a bit more clearly, but it's theoretically possible that OP has say a bit over one year of living in Canada, in the beginning, and just barely avoided hitting the five years on the flag.

As OP was able to find a job, get hired, and is currently working, obviously there weren't any issues with the SIN that couldn't be resolved....