Residency Obligation not met

[dpenabill]

Regarding inquiry by @rajesh0608 who has been (according to posts here) a PR of Canada for nearly three years, since early October 2022, who will be in breach of the Residency Obligation by the time they can return to Canada:

Does dr report will not work as surgery is performed as last resort when earlier medical treatment does not work and we consulted many doctors.
And after care also require close family member help.

I do not understand your posts. Try to keep your posts split into short, clear sentences.

Not sure why or what about posts by @rajesh0608 you have difficulty understanding.

The post you quote is indeed short and clear. If anything it may be too short (but makes complete sense in context with other posts). The question posed is simple enough: why won't the doctor's report of medical care received by family members "work?"

To answer that question requires context: work for what?

That context is clear enough, given it is clearly asked as a follow-up to the post by @canuck stating:

Likely not valid H&C reasons since both surgeries likely did not require you to remain outside Canada for almost 3 years. You could have gone to Canada . . . [in effect, sooner]

Which was in response to the op by @rajesh0608 in which they asked whether their parents' health would "work as humanitarian ground."

Otherwise the situation described in the op by @rajesh0608 fits a very common pattern (perhaps one of the most common seen in this part of the forum): @rajesh0608 is a new (less than five years) PR who cannot and thus will not return to Canada before they are in breach of the PR Residency Obligation. They expect to be around two months short of RO compliance when they come to Canada, and given that they asked two questions. In addition to the H&C question, @rajesh0608 asked if there is there a risk they will not be allowed to enter Canada when they arrive.

I have 3 years going to compete by October first week since got pr
and I haven't spent not more then 20 days day in last 2 years and 9 months.
As per my situation I can only travel to canada only after December end 2025.
But then I will be short of residency by roughly 2 months.

Can anyone please guide me will there be risk as I may not be allowed to enter at border or not.
As only short of 2 months roughly if I move from dec end and then stay there for more then 2 years to renew pr card.
My situation
Father went spinal surgery 1.5 years ago
Mother mitral valve surgery last year October

I am preparing for my profesional licnese exam in india and waiting for the result so if I pass I will go there .
Will the reason of I'll health of father mother can work as humanitarian ground .

Even though this is not composed in perfect King's English, it does consist of short and direct statements which clearly describe the situation. Does not seem necessary, but here's the scenario it describes in bullet format:

• rajesh0608 became a PR early October 2022
• rajesh0608 is outside Canada and cannot return to Canada until end of December 2025
• meanwhile rajesh0608 has been in Canada no more than 20 days, thus
  • they will be in breach of the RO by approximately two months assuming arrival in December 2025
• rajesh0608 describes some circumstances which might influence how it goes upon arrival here:
  • parents have had some serious medical issues
  • preparing for a professional exam and will travel to Canada if they pass

@rajesh0608 asks just two questions (paraphrasing for clarity):

(1) Is there a risk rajesh0608 will not be allowed to enter Canada when they arrive?​

(2) Will the situation with their parents' health be sufficient H&C reasons to allow @rajesh0608 to keep PR status? (and thus be able to stay in Canada despite the RO breach?)​

As a PR, rajesh0608 will be allowed to enter Canada. No risk entry will be denied.

The real question is whether they will be allowed to stay. Which leads to the second question:

Will the reason of I'll health of father mother can work as humanitarian ground.
[note: see op for details regarding medical conditions of parents]

Likely not valid H&C reasons since both surgeries likely did not require you to remain outside Canada for almost 3 years. You could have gone to Canada . . .

King's English but one term demands clarification: "valid H&C reasons"

If a PR explains that they did not return to Canada sooner because of a medical situation with the PR's parents, that is a valid H&C reason unless there is cause to doubt the PR's credibility (that is, it is valid unless there is cause to conclude the PR is not being honest or truthful).

I will not second-guess what @canuck78 actually meant, but I wonder if "not valid" was used here as a short way of saying that given the time period involved in this situation the parents' medical situation will not get much positive H&C weight, not enough to save PR status . . . or in terms like those rajesh0608 uses, saying (in effect) "no, not likely to 'work' because . . . "

I do not disagree with that assessment, per se, but neither do I agree with it. As I explain in a separate post responding to rajesh0608, no one here can reliably predict how these things will go, and even a broad ballpark estimate is largely guessing. After all, how it will go will be influenced by a broad range of factors, and the sooner @rajesh0608 gets here the better the odds of being able to stay.

Nonetheless, there is a significant risk that this situation might not be sufficient to get H&C relief, resulting in the loss of PR status. So even though the medical situation is a valid H&C reason, and should of course be presented in making a H&C case for keeping PR status, it might not "work" to save PR status.

A further note about H&C considerations:

There are H&C factors other than those based on reasons for not returning to Canada sooner; again the extent of the breach is a big one; potentially harsh consequences is another; potential impact on minor dependents is a big one if applicable.

For reasons explaining why the PR did not return to Canada sooner, typically the question is not whether the reason is valid or whether it will be considered. The PR's explanations for not returning sooner MUST be considered. The question is how much H&C weight the explanation carries, and whether that weighs positively in the PRs favour. This can be tricky. There is a tendency in this forum to dismiss reasons based on personal choices, like staying in a job, continuing education abroad, and such. And typically, usually, these choices are not given positive H&C weight. In some cases, however, these personal choices can (as they have in known actual cases) weigh in the PR's favour DEPENDING on the overall circumstances.

This is not to suggest a PR should rely on getting H&C credit for such reasons. But if that is part of the PR's story, that's part of the story. H&C relief for PRs in breach of the RO is far more about equities than it is technicalities.

In contrast, based on queries posted in this forum, it is apparent there is a widespread misconception about how easy it is to get H&C relief based on a family member's health situation. BUT, for example, what is underlying the comment by @canuck78 is that the PR RO is deliberately lenient and flexible enough to accommodate most situations in which a PR is settling PERMANENTLY in Canada, lenient and flexible enough to allow a PR to go abroad for up to three years to be with an ill family member NO QUESTIONS asked, or for any other personal reasons, again NO QUESTIONS asked.

Thus, even though I do not concur in judging what is "likely" in regards to the medical situation for the parents of @rajesh0608, there is a very real risk that this situation might not be sufficient to get H&C relief, resulting in the loss of PR status. Must be considered but whether it will be enough we can only guess.

 

[dpenabill]

For @rajesh0608 in particular . . .

Does dr report will not work as surgery is performed as last resort when earlier medical treatment does not work and we consulted many doctors.
And after care also require close family member help.

Is there a risk you will not be allowed to enter Canada when you arrive?

No. A PR will be allowed to enter Canada.

Question is whether you will be allowed to stay. That's more complicated. I address the procedure in observations below, but the gist of it (which it seems to me you probably understand) is that if you are subject to inadmissibility proceedings when you arrive at the PoE because you are in breach of the RO, the question is whether you will be allowed to keep PR status based on H&C considerations.

Leading to . . .

Will the situation with your parents' health be sufficient H&C reasons to allow you to keep PR status? (and thus be able to stay in Canada despite the RO breach?)

No one here can reliably say whether the health situation you describe will be a sufficient H&C reason to avoid losing PR status because you failed to comply with the PR RO. Whether the decision is made by Canadian officials in the PoE when you arrive, or by the IAD in an appeal, these circumstances will be considered, and if you present these circumstances as part of an explanation for not returning to Canada sooner they must be considered.

Whether or not that is sufficient to keep your PR status will NOT depend on these circumstances alone but will be considered in conjunction with the other circumstances in your situation, ALL the other circumstances, including how much in breach of the RO you are as well as any other reasons that explain the delay in returning to Canada.

You can also explain that the time it was taking to complete an educational or professional licensing program was an additional reason for not coming to Canada sooner. This may carry only a little H&C weight, perhaps none, but if it is a significant part of why it takes so long to move to Canada, it is a part of YOUR story, and if you are making a H&C case why you should be allowed to keep PR status despite breaching the RO, it is YOUR story that matters . . . H&C relief for many PRs in breach of the RO is simply whether their story deserves the chance to keep status, the chance to settle and stay here.

That is, both your parents' medical circumstances and your personal reasons related to obtaining a degree or professional licensing will be considered in the assessment of H&C factors, and again, if you present these as explanations, they MUST be considered before a decision terminating your PR status is made.

Some Observations About the Procedure:

Assuming you carry a PR card that does not expire until October (or November) 2027, and you arrive here before the end of January 2026, there is a fair to good chance you will be waived through the PoE examination, no inadmissibility proceedings initiated. But those odds are probably reduced if it is clear it has been more than three years since you were last here.

If you are the subject of inadmissibility proceedings upon your arrival, you will get an opportunity to present H&C reasons why you should not have your PR status terminated. It would be a good idea to be prepared to present your H&C case when you arrive. A doctor's report can help make the case but try to keep things simple.

If you are subject to inadmissibility proceedings at the PoE and your H&C reasons do not persuade the officer conducting the inadmissibility hearing/interview to allow you to keep PR status, you will be issued a Removal Order. You are still allowed to enter Canada and you have 30 days to start an appeal. This will give you another opportunity to make your H&C case to the IAD (Immigration Appeal Division) and you can stay in Canada pending the IAD hearing. Best to lawyer-up as soon as possible, to prepare and to present your case to the IAD.

Further Observations About Weighing H&C Factors:

H&C cases are tricky. Predicting the outcome is guessing. We can describe what influences the probabilities only in general terms. But how much positive weight a particular H&C factor will be given is very difficult to forecast, and whether that will be sufficient to get a favourable outcome will depend on ALL the circumstances. As I have noted, H&C relief is mostly about YOUR story.

Among the various circumstances that can influence the H&C weight given to a situation involving a parent's serious health issue is whether there is someone other than the PR who can provide assistance to the parent. Particular circumstances vary considerably, so the exact same health situation will not be weighed the same for one PR as it is for another. There are so many variables, and permutations of the variables, it is impossible to guess the overall odds let alone forecast the outcome.


Some Further Observations:

Now, the important part: do you have a valid PR card and will the PR card still be valid when you travel to Canada?

The questions posed are about what will happen at the border . . .

Can anyone please guide me will there be risk as I may not be allowed to enter at border or not.

. . . when the PR arrives here around 3 years and 3 months after landing.

Whether or not @rajesh0608 has a valid PR card will make NO difference in whether rajesh0608 is allowed to enter Canada (a PR will be allowed to enter Canada whether they have a valid PR card or not).

It will not make a difference, either, in whether the situation with the parents' health will "work" to get H&C relief that would allow @rajesh0608 to keep PR status despite being inadmissible for breach of the RO.



The Port-of-Entry Examination:

Many in this forum continue to erroneously describe the process in cases where a returning PR is subject to an inadmissibility report at a PoE. To be clear, even if a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility is prepared, there is nothing to appeal UNLESS a Removal Order is issued. And, make no mistake, this does not "start" the process for terminating PR status. It is a decision that terminates PR status (unless the PR successfully appeals and the decision terminating PR status is set aside by the IAD).

I understand your concern is that you will not be in compliance when you return. Here are the likely scenarios . . .

Most of what you describe is consistent with known procedures, applicable rules, and anecdotal reporting. And much of it is helpful for PRs who are in breach of the RO when they arrive here. Especially the suggestions to be prepared for some RO compliance related questions and to "answer the questions truthfully."

But you skip the most important part about what happens if the officer conducting the Secondary examination prepares an inadmissibility report.

-If you're formally reported, you'll be let into Canada, but they've started the process of revoking your PR status. You'll have 30 or 60 days to appeal, and the appeal process will take many months; you can remain in Canada, work, etc., until the appeal is complete.

No, if there is a formal inadmissibility report prepared, the PoE examination then and there proceeds to a hearing/interview with another officer acting in the capacity of a Minister's Delegate. With the exception of situations in which the hearing/interview with the Minister's Delegate is postponed, once the Report is prepared there will be a determination then and there, while the PR is still in the PoE, whether PR status is terminated.

Here's a summary (apart from customs/importation related screening):

PIL examination -- all arriving travelers go through a brief examination (this primary inspection line examination may be what you refer to as "passport control") which at airports can often be done at a kiosk.

Secondary examination for immigration -- following the PIL examination some PRs are referred for a Secondary immigration examination; if the officer conducting this examination determines the PR is in breach of the RO the officer can prepare a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility (for the RO breach); you describe this.

Hearing/interview with Minister's Delegate -- if a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility for RO breach is prepared the PR will then proceed to a hearing/interview with another officer, an officer designated to be the Minister's Delegate, who will make a determination of admissibility. The MD reviews the Report and determines if it is accurate and valid (do the facts support a determination the PR is in breach of the RO); if the Report is accurate and valid the PR is given the opportunity to make their H&C case. The MD then makes one of two determinations:

-- if persuaded H&C reasons are sufficient, the MD sets the Report aside; the PR is allowed to keep PR status.​

-- if H&C considerations are not sufficient, the MD issues a Removal (Departure) Order; this terminates the PR's status (but does not take effect immediately).​

No matter what the MD decides, the PR will be allowed to proceed into Canada. If a Removal Order is issued, the PR has 30 days to appeal (not 30 or 60 days).

 

[canuck78]

For @rajesh0608 in particular . . .



Is there a risk you will not be allowed to enter Canada when you arrive?

No. A PR will be allowed to enter Canada.

Question is whether you will be allowed to stay. That's more complicated. I address the procedure in observations below, but the gist of it (which it seems to me you probably understand) is that if you are subject to inadmissibility proceedings when you arrive at the PoE because you are in breach of the RO, the question is whether you will be allowed to keep PR status based on H&C considerations.

Leading to . . .

Will the situation with your parents' health be sufficient H&C reasons to allow you to keep PR status? (and thus be able to stay in Canada despite the RO breach?)

No one here can reliably say whether the health situation you describe will be a sufficient H&C reason to avoid losing PR status because you failed to comply with the PR RO. Whether the decision is made by Canadian officials in the PoE when you arrive, or by the IAD in an appeal, these circumstances will be considered, and if you present these circumstances as part of an explanation for not returning to Canada sooner they must be considered.

Whether or not that is sufficient to keep your PR status will NOT depend on these circumstances alone but will be considered in conjunction with the other circumstances in your situation, ALL the other circumstances, including how much in breach of the RO you are as well as any other reasons that explain the delay in returning to Canada.

You can also explain that the time it was taking to complete an educational or professional licensing program was an additional reason for not coming to Canada sooner. This may carry only a little H&C weight, perhaps none, but if it is a significant part of why it takes so long to move to Canada, it is a part of YOUR story, and if you are making a H&C case why you should be allowed to keep PR status despite breaching the RO, it is YOUR story that matters . . . H&C relief for many PRs in breach of the RO is simply whether their story deserves the chance to keep status, the chance to settle and stay here.

That is, both your parents' medical circumstances and your personal reasons related to obtaining a degree or professional licensing will be considered in the assessment of H&C factors, and again, if you present these as explanations, they MUST be considered before a decision terminating your PR status is made.

Some Observations About the Procedure:

Assuming you carry a PR card that does not expire until October (or November) 2027, and you arrive here before the end of January 2026, there is a fair to good chance you will be waived through the PoE examination, no inadmissibility proceedings initiated. But those odds are probably reduced if it is clear it has been more than three years since you were last here.

If you are the subject of inadmissibility proceedings upon your arrival, you will get an opportunity to present H&C reasons why you should not have your PR status terminated. It would be a good idea to be prepared to present your H&C case when you arrive. A doctor's report can help make the case but try to keep things simple.

If you are subject to inadmissibility proceedings at the PoE and your H&C reasons do not persuade the officer conducting the inadmissibility hearing/interview to allow you to keep PR status, you will be issued a Removal Order. You are still allowed to enter Canada and you have 30 days to start an appeal. This will give you another opportunity to make your H&C case to the IAD (Immigration Appeal Division) and you can stay in Canada pending the IAD hearing. Best to lawyer-up as soon as possible, to prepare and to present your case to the IAD.

Further Observations About Weighing H&C Factors:

H&C cases are tricky. Predicting the outcome is guessing. We can describe what influences the probabilities only in general terms. But how much positive weight a particular H&C factor will be given is very difficult to forecast, and whether that will be sufficient to get a favourable outcome will depend on ALL the circumstances. As I have noted, H&C relief is mostly about YOUR story.

Among the various circumstances that can influence the H&C weight given to a situation involving a parent's serious health issue is whether there is someone other than the PR who can provide assistance to the parent. Particular circumstances vary considerably, so the exact same health situation will not be weighed the same for one PR as it is for another. There are so many variables, and permutations of the variables, it is impossible to guess the overall odds let alone forecast the outcome.


Some Further Observations:



The questions posed are about what will happen at the border . . .


. . . when the PR arrives here around 3 years and 3 months after landing.

Whether or not @rajesh0608 has a valid PR card will make NO difference in whether rajesh0608 is allowed to enter Canada (a PR will be allowed to enter Canada whether they have a valid PR card or not).

It will not make a difference, either, in whether the situation with the parents' health will "work" to get H&C relief that would allow @rajesh0608 to keep PR status despite being inadmissible for breach of the RO.



The Port-of-Entry Examination:

Many in this forum continue to erroneously describe the process in cases where a returning PR is subject to an inadmissibility report at a PoE. To be clear, even if a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility is prepared, there is nothing to appeal UNLESS a Removal Order is issued. And, make no mistake, this does not "start" the process for terminating PR status. It is a decision that terminates PR status (unless the PR successfully appeals and the decision terminating PR status is set aside by the IAD).




Most of what you describe is consistent with known procedures, applicable rules, and anecdotal reporting. And much of it is helpful for PRs who are in breach of the RO when they arrive here. Especially the suggestions to be prepared for some RO compliance related questions and to "answer the questions truthfully."

But you skip the most important part about what happens if the officer conducting the Secondary examination prepares an inadmissibility report.



No, if there is a formal inadmissibility report prepared, the PoE examination then and there proceeds to a hearing/interview with another officer acting in the capacity of a Minister's Delegate. With the exception of situations in which the hearing/interview with the Minister's Delegate is postponed, once the Report is prepared there will be a determination then and there, while the PR is still in the PoE, whether PR status is terminated.

Here's a summary (apart from customs/importation related screening):

PIL examination -- all arriving travelers go through a brief examination (this primary inspection line examination may be what you refer to as "passport control") which at airports can often be done at a kiosk.

Secondary examination for immigration -- following the PIL examination some PRs are referred for a Secondary immigration examination; if the officer conducting this examination determines the PR is in breach of the RO the officer can prepare a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility (for the RO breach); you describe this.

Hearing/interview with Minister's Delegate -- if a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility for RO breach is prepared the PR will then proceed to a hearing/interview with another officer, an officer designated to be the Minister's Delegate, who will make a determination of admissibility. The MD reviews the Report and determines if it is accurate and valid (do the facts support a determination the PR is in breach of the RO); if the Report is accurate and valid the PR is given the opportunity to make their H&C case. The MD then makes one of two determinations:

-- if persuaded H&C reasons are sufficient, the MD sets the Report aside; the PR is allowed to keep PR status.​

-- if H&C considerations are not sufficient, the MD issues a Removal (Departure) Order; this terminates the PR's status (but does not take effect immediately).​

No matter what the MD decides, the PR will be allowed to proceed into Canada. If a Removal Order is issued, the PR has 30 days to appeal (not 30 or 60 days).

Never said they wouldn’t be admitted to Canada but a valve replacement surgery for parent in 2024 would not be an H&C reason for not being able to meet their RO by a few months in late 2025. As stated it appears as licensing exam is the main reason for delaying travel to Canada. Lots of examples on this forum of people being waved through on their reentry to Canada but by not meeting RO you put yourself at risk if you need to travel in the following 2 years. People should be prepared to remain in Canada for 2 years to become compliant with their RO which is difficult for many people.

 

[dpenabill]

but a valve replacement surgery for parent in 2024 would not be an H&C reason for not being able to meet their RO by a few months in late 2025

I do not know how much weight it will carry but if the PR explains that part of the reason for not returning to Canada sooner was the parents' health situation, heart valve replacement or knee replacement or whatever, it MUST be considered in the H&C analysis. The question is not whether it is a conclusive reason for not meeting the RO but whether taken in consideration with ALL the other circumstances, the H&C considerations add up to a reason for allowing the PR to keep their status.

Many (probably most) H&C factors are not binary. Not all or nothing. This factor (parents' health) in particular is not an all or nothing binary factor. It will be considered. Moreover, how long a parent needs a family member's care following any kind of surgery will vary widely from case to case, and what impact that had on the ability of the PR (the family member providing the care) to return to Canada sooner will vary from case to case depending on the details.

It will almost certainly be given some positive weight. How much, and especially whether that is enough to save PR status, however, is the overriding question and no one here can reliably say.

The PR should be prepared to explain and document the parents' medical situations, and why it was important for the PR to be there for the PR's parents, in case they are subject to inadmissibility proceedings (the 44(2) hearing with the officer acting as a Minister's Delegate following the preparation of a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility on RO grounds), along with being prepared to explain the rest of their story. If they are nonetheless issued a Removal Order at the PoE, and thus need to appeal to try to save their status, they should then obtain the assistance of a lawyer in making the case to the IAD.

 

[rajesh0608]

Ok sir
Last time I visited after 2 year of getting pr card for 10 days then I scanned on kiosk machine and no one inspected me

I think it will be my luck next time
Weather I may be inspected or not

Anyone have experience weather they check at random ?

 

[rajesh0608]

The main factor which is stoping me form moving before dec 2025 is my result of licnese exam.

As I failed in that one exam for 3 time and I am thinking if I pass the exam then I shd move with family otherwise I am staying here .

As here job is permanent and stable now. And without license i have to do minimal wage job.


Although my wife got her teacher licenese of Ontario. But I think with one job and risking stable job without getting licnese is not good decision just for PR OR I am thinking wrong?

Can anyone share their kind review in my situation

As I am stressed of thinking daily about weather shd move or not .
This license exam I missed by margins marks multiple time so I am stressed .

I am thinking right to move after passing exam or not?

As initially I thought of taking leave but such long leave is not allowed from the job .

So I am in dilemma

Thanks for all support

 

[canuck78]

The main factor which is stoping me form moving before dec 2025 is my result of licnese exam.

As I failed in that one exam for 3 time and I am thinking if I pass the exam then I shd move with family otherwise I am staying here .

As here job is permanent and stable now. And without license i have to do minimal wage job.


Although my wife got her teacher licenese of Ontario. But I think with one job and risking stable job without getting licnese is not good decision just for PR OR I am thinking wrong?

Can anyone share their kind review in my situation

As I am stressed of thinking daily about weather shd move or not .
This license exam I missed by margins marks multiple time so I am stressed .

I am thinking right to move after passing exam or not?

As initially I thought of taking leave but such long leave is not allowed from the job .

So I am in dilemma

Thanks for all support

Would personally not risk leaving a stable job given the economy in Canada. Also you would need to be prepared to leave your parents in India. Whether relocating to Canada is a good idea depends on your current situation. If you have a good life in India and need to be close to family not sure it would make sense. Also depends on your age and NOC. Much harder to move in your mid to late 30s versus your 20s. Most families will also need to be dual income households to afford life in Canada. Also depends on your level of savings and how long you could sustain yourself while you get established in Canada. Much harder if you have children because you will want to provide a decent standard of living and typically private accommodations from the start. Not meeting your RO further complicates the situation as you or your spouse would not want to delay the arrival of your whole family while one of you (or both) try to get established in Canada. This is possibly one of the worst times to move to Canada.

 

[dpenabill]

The main factor which is stoping me form moving before dec 2025 is my result of licnese exam.

As I failed in that one exam for 3 time and I am thinking if I pass the exam then I shd move with family otherwise I am staying here .

As here job is permanent and stable now. And without license i have to do minimal wage job.


Although my wife got her teacher licenese of Ontario. But I think with one job and risking stable job without getting licnese is not good decision just for PR OR I am thinking wrong?

Can anyone share their kind review in my situation

As I am stressed of thinking daily about weather shd move or not .
This license exam I missed by margins marks multiple time so I am stressed .

I am thinking right to move after passing exam or not?

As initially I thought of taking leave but such long leave is not allowed from the job .

So I am in dilemma

Thanks for all support

Whether to come to Canada in your situation is a very personal decision. What is the better decision depends on many factors specific to you and your family. This is a decision for you and your spouse to make based on your best judgment, based on your personal circumstances. And yeah, not an easy decision to make.

@canuck78 posted a good summary of factors to consider. As is rather common, I agree with most of what @canuck78 suggested but not so much with some of the particulars:

-- What @canuck (or I) would do personally is not all that relevant let alone the first thing to consider. This decision about what is best for you and your family, as best you can figure that out.​

​

-- This is not the worst time to move to Canada generally.​

-- -- Very hard to compare different times, but it was obviously quite a lot worse in 2020/2021 than it is currently . . .​

-- -- Apart from what may otherwise "possibly" be among the worst times to move here, as I recall @canuck78 has similarly said this quite a number of times in regards to other periods of time.​

-- -- Fact is, for many (perhaps most) immigrating to a different country it is a tough move to make; many of us here have been there, done that, and how it goes mostly depends on particular factors, many personal.​

-- -- Such a general factor is way less relevant than personal factors; employment prospects, for example, vary widely, varying from sector to sector, from person to person.​

-- -- Moreover, the question is not how good or bad the prospects are for settling in Canada now, at this time, compared to some other time. After all, it is clear you are only considering whether to come to settle here now, at this time, not some other time. The question is whether the prospects for you and your family, given your personal situations, are good enough to make the move compared to your prospects if you do not make the move.​

At the risk of stating the obvious: what you and your spouse want has a lot to do with it, your goals, your aspirations. Along with how much you are willing to sacrifice in the near term as an investment for your long term dreams. Yeah, it mostly comes down to "it's up to you." Which can indeed be stressful . . . another been-there-done-that scene for many of us here.

My sense is you have been aware of and wrestling with all of that, and that you are aware in particular that there is a good deal of unknowns and uncertainty in many of the factors to consider. Best I can offer is to encourage you to do the homework, a lot of homework, to get yourselves (both you and your spouse) as well informed as you can. Be wary of conclusory advice, especially binary do-this, do-not-do-that declarations. That said (my hypocrisy showing), I would advise that you make the decision together with your spouse, as a family, as equal partners.

Back to the Border . . . and what will happen at the Port-of-Entry when you arrive . . .

But obviously whether or not you will get to keep your PR status and actually settle here is a key factor. Unfortunately no one here can say what will happen when you arrive. No one here can even reliably give a ballpark estimate about what is likely or not likely.

My previous posts above addressed what happens if you need to make the H&C case.

@armoured summarized much of how things can go in the PoE examination before that, including in particular describing the possibility of being waived through.

Again at the risk of stating the obvious: as @armoured mentioned, and I concurred, be truthful. That deserves emphasis and clarification: it is important to be both truthful and honest, and not be evasive. Yeah, my hypocrisy showing again, giving do-this advice. (And some jurist experience showing: as many well know, and lawyers most notoriously exploit, you can be truthful but dishonest . . . in a PoE examination best to not go there, not close.)

"Anyone have experience weather they check at random ?"​

Yes, border control will sometimes conduct additional screening at random.

I assume this question is about whether a returning PR might be referred to Secondary and asked questions related to their travel history, and compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, even if there is no overt indicator of a RO compliance issue during the PIL screening (probably at a kiosk assuming you fly here). Recent enhancements in technology have significantly increased the risk that even at the PIL step a returning PR might be flagged for a referral to Secondary to be asked RO compliance related questions. Because we have no source of relevant statistics, and the anecdotal reporting is at best sporadic, it is impossible to forecast whether you will be referred to Secondary or otherwise questioned about RO compliance.

Best to assume you will be asked questions related to your travel history and RO compliance. So, once again, be both truthful (accurate) and honest, and do not be evasive.

Remember, as long as you are truthful and honest, the worst case scenario is a Removal Order you can appeal while you stay in Canada. Since you are a new PR (less than five years) and only a few months in breach of the RO, it could make a big difference, a positive difference, if Canadian officials perceive you to be honestly doing your best to come here to settle permanently . . . that's why you were granted PR status.

As I have said repeatedly, predicting odds is a guessing game, but the best odds depend on maintaining your credibility. Border control questioning, like law enforcement questioning generally, is largely telescoping, meaning the scope of questions can and will expand depending on the answers given, especially when an official perceives a response is evasive, suspecting the individual may be hiding something, let alone possibly deceptive.

A couple years ago it would have been safe to say someone in your situation had good to very good odds of being waived through at the PoE, and even if a 44(1) Report was prepared fairly good odds it would be set aside by the officer assessing H&C considerations. Unfortunately there is less certainty now. Nonetheless, unless you have the means and resources to obtain in-depth counseling from a Canadian immigration lawyer (not a consultant, and definitely not a consultant outside Canada) who can review your personal situation in detail and advise you, the better odds for you is to be prepared to tell your story, truthfully, honestly.

 

[canuck78]

Whether to come to Canada in your situation is a very personal decision. What is the better decision depends on many factors specific to you and your family. This is a decision for you and your spouse to make based on your best judgment, based on your personal circumstances. And yeah, not an easy decision to make.

@canuck78 posted a good summary of factors to consider. As is rather common, I agree with most of what @canuck78 suggested but not so much with some of the particulars:

-- What @canuck (or I) would do personally is not all that relevant let alone the first thing to consider. This decision about what is best for you and your family, as best you can figure that out.​

​

-- This is not the worst time to move to Canada generally.​

-- -- Very hard to compare different times, but it was obviously quite a lot worse in 2020/2021 than it is currently . . .​

-- -- Apart from what may otherwise "possibly" be among the worst times to move here, as I recall @canuck78 has similarly said this quite a number of times in regards to other periods of time.​

-- -- Fact is, for many (perhaps most) immigrating to a different country it is a tough move to make; many of us here have been there, done that, and how it goes mostly depends on particular factors, many personal.​

-- -- Such a general factor is way less relevant than personal factors; employment prospects, for example, vary widely, varying from sector to sector, from person to person.​

-- -- Moreover, the question is not how good or bad the prospects are for settling in Canada now, at this time, compared to some other time. After all, it is clear you are only considering whether to come to settle here now, at this time, not some other time. The question is whether the prospects for you and your family, given your personal situations, are good enough to make the move compared to your prospects if you do not make the move.​

At the risk of stating the obvious: what you and your spouse want has a lot to do with it, your goals, your aspirations. Along with how much you are willing to sacrifice in the near term as an investment for your long term dreams. Yeah, it mostly comes down to "it's up to you." Which can indeed be stressful . . . another been-there-done-that scene for many of us here.

My sense is you have been aware of and wrestling with all of that, and that you are aware in particular that there is a good deal of unknowns and uncertainty in many of the factors to consider. Best I can offer is to encourage you to do the homework, a lot of homework, to get yourselves (both you and your spouse) as well informed as you can. Be wary of conclusory advice, especially binary do-this, do-not-do-that declarations. That said (my hypocrisy showing), I would advise that you make the decision together with your spouse, as a family, as equal partners.

Back to the Border . . . and what will happen at the Port-of-Entry when you arrive . . .

But obviously whether or not you will get to keep your PR status and actually settle here is a key factor. Unfortunately no one here can say what will happen when you arrive. No one here can even reliably give a ballpark estimate about what is likely or not likely.

My previous posts above addressed what happens if you need to make the H&C case.

@armoured summarized much of how things can go in the PoE examination before that, including in particular describing the possibility of being waived through.

Again at the risk of stating the obvious: as @armoured mentioned, and I concurred, be truthful. That deserves emphasis and clarification: it is important to be both truthful and honest, and not be evasive. Yeah, my hypocrisy showing again, giving do-this advice. (And some jurist experience showing: as many well know, and lawyers most notoriously exploit, you can be truthful but dishonest . . . in a PoE examination best to not go there, not close.)

"Anyone have experience weather they check at random ?"​

Yes, border control will sometimes conduct additional screening at random.

I assume this question is about whether a returning PR might be referred to Secondary and asked questions related to their travel history, and compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, even if there is no overt indicator of a RO compliance issue during the PIL screening (probably at a kiosk assuming you fly here). Recent enhancements in technology have significantly increased the risk that even at the PIL step a returning PR might be flagged for a referral to Secondary to be asked RO compliance related questions. Because we have no source of relevant statistics, and the anecdotal reporting is at best sporadic, it is impossible to forecast whether you will be referred to Secondary or otherwise questioned about RO compliance.

Best to assume you will be asked questions related to your travel history and RO compliance. So, once again, be both truthful (accurate) and honest, and do not be evasive.

Remember, as long as you are truthful and honest, the worst case scenario is a Removal Order you can appeal while you stay in Canada. Since you are a new PR (less than five years) and only a few months in breach of the RO, it could make a big difference, a positive difference, if Canadian officials perceive you to be honestly doing your best to come here to settle permanently . . . that's why you were granted PR status.

As I have said repeatedly, predicting odds is a guessing game, but the best odds depend on maintaining your credibility. Border control questioning, like law enforcement questioning generally, is largely telescoping, meaning the scope of questions can and will expand depending on the answers given, especially when an official perceives a response is evasive, suspecting the individual may be hiding something, let alone possibly deceptive.

A couple years ago it would have been safe to say someone in your situation had good to very good odds of being waived through at the PoE, and even if a 44(1) Report was prepared fairly good odds it would be set aside by the officer assessing H&C considerations. Unfortunately there is less certainty now. Nonetheless, unless you have the means and resources to obtain in-depth counseling from a Canadian immigration lawyer (not a consultant, and definitely not a consultant outside Canada) who can review your personal situation in detail and advise you, the better odds for you is to be prepared to tell your story, truthfully, honestly.

Argument could be made whether 2020/21 vs now is worse. There were at least survival jobs to be found and some remote opportunities in 2020/2021. It has always been challenging for Indian professionals to transition to Canada which is why moving earlier on in life gives you more time to get back into your profession. This is a pretty brutal job market and we haven’t even seen any of the federal government cuts yet. If willing to relocate anywhere in Canada and especially if wife teaches certain subjects she could likely find a teaching job although not ideal timing to get a job for this school year. I’m sure there are mat leaves or disability leaves that need teachers midyear. Teaching is one of the professions where there is a shortage while I assume the husband may be something like an engineer given the licensing exams. Entering that field in Canada will be much more challenging unless a few select forms of engineering. It appears as though this family has a relatively good life in India with professional jobs and care needs for their parents. Much tougher to justify immigrating as a middle class or upper middle class Indian than it was even 10 years ago. Also much harder or impossible to eventually sponsor your parents which should be a consideration for anyone considering moving to Canada. IRCC and CBSA are going to have to start removing seniors given the volume of families counting on H&C to circumvent PGP quotas and EOI2020.