Congrats!
Do you think your application moved forward because of the mandamus filing, or was it just the natural next step after two years? Thanks!
2023 Citizenship Applications
- Thread starter GFLiam
- Start date
Congrats!
Do you think your application moved forward because of the mandamus filing, or was it just the natural next step after two years? Thanks!
Mandamus self-representation only costs the federal Court 50$ fee ( https://www.fct-cf.ca/en/pages/law-and-practice/court-costs/court-and-registry-fees ) , and if a second step mandamus step is needed, the potential fees to notarize your documents.
AH...okay, I was multitasking when I tried to read the post. That's interesting to say the least. May be worth investigating....
I'm not a lawyer, but I would not advise self representation in a mandamus case. It can get very complicated very quickly, and if it makes it to court you'd really want a lawyer on your side. You can start the process on your own and hope your application gets picked up by IRCC again, but if it moves forward you'd either have to withdraw your application from federal court, or hire a lawyer and continue the process.
I've been reading the discussion above, going ahead with a mandamus is really a personal decision. Many people are okay with waiting (which at the end of the day they are already PRs and the citizenship application really doesn't change much other than being able to vote and possibly easier travel for those with more restrictive passports), some are okay with shelling out the money for a lawyer (whether its out of urgency or just out of the feeling that they deserve "justice").
There is no objective right way, it depends on each person's individual circumstances.
Fair point, which is why I said it's worth investigating, not necessary the way I am going to go. Also my application is On Hold for whatever reason, so circumstances are different.
I'm not advocating for it either to be honest. My answer above was merely "matter of factly" and says nothing of the degree of complexity involved in the process.
I've seen FB and whatsapp communities pushing for self-representation, and per se, why not, but part of my observation was the huge number of people "lured" by the ease to serve IRCC in mandamus step 1, and then realize they're completely lost once it's time to move to step 2 (the applicant's record, pretty much "this is why I deserve mandamus leave and these are the legal arguments for it", aka solid lawyer stuff...), and these people then ask very basic questions with 0 legal knowledge (they often have never heard of CanLII), don't have the computer know-how to produce a proper PDF as per the FC requirements, panic for time extensions hoping for IRCC to finalize their application while they wait it out because they just can't go with step 2, or just go with the samples available online with minimal or no modification ewithout even understanding their content although they're signing these documents as theirs, or as @ArrMatey says above end up discontinuing because there's a deadline set by the FC rules and they're stuck in a process that's way above their head. Anyone willing to represent themselves need to put a lot of work in it, not build the plane while they're already flying. To continue with the aviation metaphor, people may arrive to the destination after the "easy part", the ALJR, such as @mlh 's testimony, but it's largely a gamble, and the gamble here is pretty much a "fake it till you make it", or simply a "do something to feel like you're doing something while, after 2 or 3 years, IRCC is already getting close to the finish line for most unlucky applicants anyway".
I haven't listened to the podcast @armoured referred to, but I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason we see less traction after initial mandamus steps, is also in the sheer quantity of "unserious" mandamus applications , and that's something IRCC is probably aware of...
I've seen FB and whatsapp communities pushing for self-representation, and per se, why not, but part of my observation was the huge number of people "lured" by the ease to serve IRCC in mandamus step 1, and then realize they're completely lost once it's time to move to step 2 (the applicant's record, pretty much "this is why I deserve mandamus leave and these are the legal arguments for it", aka solid lawyer stuff...), and these people then ask very basic questions with 0 legal knowledge (they often have never heard of CanLII), don't have the computer know-how to produce a proper PDF as per the FC requirements, panic for time extensions hoping for IRCC to finalize their application while they wait it out because they just can't go with step 2, or just go with the samples available online with minimal or no modification ewithout even understanding their content although they're signing these documents as theirs, or as @ArrMatey says above end up discontinuing because there's a deadline set by the FC rules and they're stuck in a process that's way above their head. Anyone willing to represent themselves need to put a lot of work in it, not build the plane while they're already flying. To continue with the aviation metaphor, people may arrive to the destination after the "easy part", the ALJR, such as @mlh 's testimony, but it's largely a gamble, and the gamble here is pretty much a "fake it till you make it", or simply a "do something to feel like you're doing something while, after 2 or 3 years, IRCC is already getting close to the finish line for most unlucky applicants anyway".
I haven't listened to the podcast @armoured referred to, but I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason we see less traction after initial mandamus steps, is also in the sheer quantity of "unserious" mandamus applications , and that's something IRCC is probably aware of...
Also, the bright side : I can point to at least ONE (to be honest, that's the only one I've seen!) successful self-representation that went all the way, and with a positive decision, so it's certainly possible... Kudos to Ali Jebelli 
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2025/2025fc500/2025fc500.html
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2025/2025fc500/2025fc500.html
I can't recall whether they specifically mentioned the increase in self-mandamus applications (although I think so). But it's something that's quite clear, that mandamus itself is immensely demanding on procedural and specific steps, as well as substance (you can't just say "it's taking a long time") and easy to screw up.
Although the first stage/demand letter is (broadly) pretty simple in substance, I'm going to guess that the lawyers on the govt side who read them can tell right away whether it's 'real' or not.
Good for him. It’s crazy to see he applied back in 2020! Even more shocking—he’s well-educated and studied and worked in Canada. If this isn’t mismanagement, what is?Also, the bright side : I can point to at least ONE (to be honest, that's the only one I've seen!) successful self-representation that went all the way, and with a positive decision, so it's certainly possible... Kudos to Ali Jebelli
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2025/2025fc500/2025fc500.html
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