PR expired in April 2012

[xMadMaxx]

Hello,

I married a Canadian (who was living outside canada) in 2001 & became a perminant residant on April 2007. However, due to personal reasons we had to leave Canada in 2008.

My question is, I am not planning on going back to Canada to live & work any time soon BUT I plan to go for vacation. Is it worth while to apply for travel document and renew my PR (I have to stay in canada for about 7 weeks which is a bit difficult since I have a job outside Canada) or Just enter from US (as I have US visa)?!!

I know that I can't apply for a visa unless I renounce my PR which I don't want to as eventually we are going to move to canada in 2 years time.


Thanks

 

[dpenabill]

Hello,

I married a Canadian (who was living outside canada) in 2001 & became a perminant residant on April 2007. However, due to personal reasons we had to leave Canada in 2008.

My question is, I am not planning on going back to Canada to live & work any time soon BUT I plan to go for vacation. Is it worth while to apply for travel document and renew my PR (I have to stay in canada for about 7 weeks which is a bit difficult since I have a job outside Canada) or Just enter from US (as I have US visa)?!!

I know that I can't apply for a visa unless I renounce my PR which I don't want to as eventually we are going to move to canada in 2 years time.


Thanks

My impression is that you understand the key aspects of this situation even though they are not specifically stated:

-- you have been cohabiting with a Canadian citizen spouse for more than two years during the most recent five years

-- you are asking about renewing the PR CARD not PR itself

The first of these is the critical one. This is the element which indicates you are in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation and are, therefore, admissible to Canada. If my impression is not correct, that is, if you have not been cohabiting with a Canadian citizen spouse for more than two years during the most recent five years, you are undoubtedly in breach of the PR RO, inadmissible, and would be denied a PR Travel Document or, if you travel via the U.S., likely be reported for inadmissibility (44(1) Report) upon arrival at a POE. Exception: if you have compelling H&C case, of which there is no hint in your post.



Assuming you have been cohabiting with a Canadian citizen spouse . . .

Assuming you have been cohabiting with a Canadian citizen spouse for more than two years during the most recent five years, there is no reason to not apply for a PR Travel Document for the purpose of traveling to Canada. Make sure to include proof, with the application:

-- in qualified relationship (copy of marriage certificate is best) with spouse

-- spouse is a Canadian citizen (copy of Canadian passport or citizenship certificate; copy of birth certificate showing birth in Canada might suffice)

-- documents supporting declaration of time living together during the previous five years, that is, proof of cohabitation


Regarding applying for new PR card:

For now (subject to change), to be eligible for a replacement/renewed PR card, the PR needs to be in Canada. Technically it is possible to come to Canada briefly so as to make the application in Canada, and potentially return to get the PR card later when it is delivered. It is obvious that a large number of PRs more or less living abroad attempt to do this, and a significant number of them are probably successful.

However, this involves some difficulties and pitfalls. In particular, though, many who attempt this succumb to the temptation to make a misrepresentation about their current residential address, in the hopes the new card will be mailed to that address, collected there by a trusted friend or family member, to be forwarded to the PR or retrieved during a subsequent brief visit.

This is a foolish gamble for someone who is in compliance with the PR RO.

The primary advantage there is in having a new PR card, for someone who is in compliance with the PR RO (such as by accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse abroad), is that it makes traveling to Canada easier, no need to apply for another PR TD when you want to travel to Canada. The PR TD process, however, is not so difficult, for someone who can easily document RO compliance (even if that is by accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse), that would make it worth taking any risks by fudging in the PR card application (and if your employment is continuing abroad, there really is no way to avoid truthfully stating that where you live is your address abroad).

Reminder: a new PR card will not preserve PR status. It does not protect the PR from PR RO examinations. A new PR card does not extend status.

One other advantage is that it would make it easier to re-establish a life in Canada if and when that was your plan, as in make it easier to obtain Provincial health care coverage and get a Provincial drivers license.

The current processing time listed for obtaining a PR card (replacement/renewal) is 171 days. There is a significant risk, for a PR who has been living abroad and is relying on the credit in the exception for PRs accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse, of at least a referral to secondary review and a longer processing time. There is a significantly higher risk of being required to pick up the card in person, rather than it being mailed to the PR's residential address.

Nonetheless, how a particular PR approaches this is very much a personal, individual decision, dependent on the specific circumstances for the individual, and there is no one guideline for all PRs despite their being in similar situations.

 

[Leon]

It would be simpler for you to enter from the US for your visit. PR travel documents can take a while.

If you decide to apply for your PR card during this visit, there is no reason why you should misrepresent yourself and list your address as being in Canada. You have to provide a mailing address in Canada but you can write a cover letter explaining your situation that you live overseas and give a contact address in Canada with friends of family where you may be reached. However, this pretty much guarantees that they will not mail your PR card to that address but ask you to come and pick it up instead so in that case, you may be applying for the card during your visit and getting a letter from CIC to come to Canada again to pick it up about 6 months later because that is the processing time for renewed cards right now.

Or you can just leave it until you are settled again in 2 years time.

 

[dpenabill]

As opinions go, my opinion is that for PRs who are in compliance with the PR RO and who can and do submit supporting information and documentation with the PR TD application, clearly showing compliance with the PR RO: for such a PR, obtaining the PR TD is actually better. This has not always been the case, but going forward I believe it is.

For those clearly documenting status and compliance with the PR RO, the PR TD application is not onerous and in most visa offices (there are exceptions) is processed timely, in days or a few weeks.

But of course what actually works best for a specific individual is a personal decision best made in consideration of that individual's particular situation.

My opinion is based in part, I acknowledge, on anticipating the trend in POE examinations for PRs seeking entry into Canada without presenting either a currently valid PR card or a PR TD. My sense is that going forward, with the eTA requirement fully implemented, that there is likely to be systematically elevated scrutiny of PRs seeking entry if the PR does not have a PR card or PR TD. ENF 4 governing POE examinations has been substantially revised twice in the last year, some of the revisions tending to impose more structure and required screening, and that does not reflect internal policy and practice directives . . . regarding which, recognizing this entails some speculation, my impression is that there is or will be elevated scrutiny for PRS without a PR card or PR TD.

Historically, for example, PRs without a current PR card or PR TD, typically encountered less scrutiny in general, and even if referred to secondary more leniency at the POE, than they would applying for a PR TD. While again I am speculating some, the indications are quite convincing that the POE screening for such PRs either already entails substantially greater scrutiny or is trending in that direction.

Moreover, traveling via the U.S. is not always all that convenient, since the POE screening at the U.S. POE itself can be more onerous than anticipated, and making travel arrangements to Canada without traveling via a common carrier imposes some inconvenience, at the least more travel time.

Even historically, a great deal of the anecdotal support for traveling via the U.S. was related to PRs who either were in breach of the PR RO or whose circumstances suggested potential concerns about being in compliance with the PR RO, and thus were PRs at risk of being denied a PR TD. Historically such PRs who could travel via the U.S. could avoid the risk of applying for the PR TD and also anticipate a lower degree of scrutiny at the Canadian POE.

In contrast, a PR who is living abroad with a Canadian citizen spouse has little or no reason to anticipate any problem getting the PR TD (but must, nonetheless, be sure to submit proof to show compliance). Once the PR TD is issued, this accomplishes a few important things:
-- allows for a direct flight to Canada
-- will usually (nearly always) facilitate an easier screening at the POE
-- and, very importantly, it creates a record in FOSS reflecting that there was a positive residency determination

Thus, for example, a PR who for many years has been living abroad together with his or her Canadian citizen spouse, who is anticipating finally returning to settle in Canada, who applies for and is issued a PR TD, and who travels to Canada using that PR TD, and then again in a year or three, similarly applies for another PR TD to travel to Canada again, this time to settle, will almost certainly have his or her application for a PR card routinely processed, with minimal risk of delays due to non-routine processing. FOSS will reflect the respective, positive residency determinations in regards to the PR TD applications.

Moreover, and to my perspective quite importantly, going about it this way avoids any suspicion of having deliberately traveled via the U.S. to avoid a residency determination. CBSA is not oblivious to why some PRs travel via the U.S. IRCC is likewise not oblivious. For the PR who should have no trouble applying for and obtaining a PR TD, why even risk being associated with those who appear to be skirting the system? Sure, in the recent past it was no big deal, but going forward it is clear that CBSA and IRCC consider the most appropriate course for PRs abroad without a PR card is for them to obtain a PR TD.

 

[xMadMaxx]

Thanks for the reply guys.
Yes I am married to a Canadian and have 2 children (Canadian) and we have been living together all the time.
My situation now has changed as now I intend on going and living in Canada in January or February 2018.
Now I am planning on moving back to Canada and live there. to do so, I want to go for couple of weeks to apply for a PR from within Canada (this month or next month max) then move permanently in January (this way, my PR will be ready when I am moving to Canada). I have several questions:
1- How many times can I apply for PR travel document? I was planning on applying for one to go to apply for PR then apply another when I am moving there.
2- In filling the PR travel document, from the checklist, number 8, its says "Letter indicating the reason you stayed out of Canada", is there a sample for that? is there a template? the reason I stayed out all these years was cause I had better job opportunity in Saudi Arabia.
3- I know I can enter from US through a rented car ( I did that couple of years ago when my bank account was frozen), but I prefer the travel document.
4- my PR was issued in Ontario, can I apply to renew my PR from Montreal Quebec and get Quebec PR (giving Montreal Address)? (cause I am intending on living in Montreal)
5- does not having a PR affect my job hunting? if it does not affect my life in Canada, I can go in Jan/Feb and apply PR once I am living there

Thanks in Advance

 

[xMadMaxx]

regarding point number 5, what I meant was, since I would be going to live in Canada, and since I would be applying to renew my PR, and since the process might take 3 months, can I still live normally in Canada (in terms on renting house, searching for jobs, buying car, etc...)