NOC for postdoc

[bigsnail]

There used to be an NOC for postdoc: 4122.
Now the new NOC list eliminated it.
On the new list,
Should I use 4012?
It requires "enrolled in a university/college program".
What does "enroll" mean here? Does employment with a work permit count?
Trickily, if we compare the 4012 in the new list
www5. hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/ProfileQuickSearch.aspx?val=4&val1=4012&val65=* (delete the space after www5.)
and the 4122 in the 2006 list
www30. hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2006/ProfileQuickSearch.aspx?val=4&val1=4122&val65=*, (delete the space after www30.)
by clicking into the link "View all titles", it is clear that postdoctoral fellow is intentionally removed.

4011 and 4021 do not apply as postdocs' job is research, not teaching (in general).

Or should postdoc choose NOC by research area then, ie go to 2xxx?

Many thanks.

 

[toddmeng]

post-doctoral fellow NOC:


Post-doctoral fellows can be either the direct recipients of an award or be offered a time-limited position to undertake research on behalf of or as part of a team of researchers. Universities vary in their methods and criteria used in assessing candidates and offering post-doctoral fellowships. Officers should assess the written offer from a responsible academic official (professor or higher) which will state the amount of remuneration, location, nature and expected duration of the term of employment, and will not be concerned with the source of remuneration.
Occupational code
Given the absence of an occupational code in the NOC for post-doctoral fellows, please use the applicant‘s specialty. For example, an applicant in Earth Sciences could be coded 2113 as a geologist or 2115.2 as a soil scientist.
Please DO NOT code post-doctoral fellows as post-secondary research assistants, NOC code 4122.1, as this creates internal problems at universities and impacts applications for permanent residence, since the educational and skill levels are lower.


cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/fw/fw01-eng.pdf



btw: where are you? I am in UBC and preparing my application too.

 

[bigsnail]

Thanks a lot, Toddmeng. In fact, 4122 has been completely removed from the NOC list. So no confusion will be caused.

Indeed, I just found "postdoctoral fellow" under
4011 University professors and lecturers:
www5. hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/ProfileQuickSearch.aspx?val=4&val1=4011&val65=* (remove the space after www5)
Just click into "View all titles" and you'll find "postdoctoral fellow".

But looking at the "Main duties" in 4011, almost all are about teaching. This matches with the understanding of most ordinary people, though people in academia all know that a professor's main job is research. They get tenured because of research, not of teaching.

Most postdoc like me do not teach, so we will only fit one item in the "Main duties":
"Conduct research in field of specialization and publish findings in scholarly journals or books".

Therefore I do worry if it will be too risky to use 4011. In other words, it could be possible that "postdoctoral fellow" is included in 4011 just because the designers of NOC mistakenly believe that a postdoc's main job is teaching.

And I really try to avoid using applicant's specialty as the NOC.

 

[toddmeng]

from this:
Please DO NOT code post-doctoral fellows as post-secondary research assistants, NOC code 4122.1, as this creates internal problems at universities and impacts applications for permanent residence, since the educational and skill levels are lower.


It seems we'd better to use our specility as our NOC.

I don't know why you really don't want to use it. I will just use mine 2121 as my NOC. I won't put 4011 as my NOC because I don't fit majority of the duties listed. I am afriad that it will be risky.

What stage are you now? I am filling forms and get my police certificates. Plan to submit it in May or June.

 

[bigsnail]

The reason why I avoid using specialty as NOC is that my specialty is also tricky in that sense. For example, it is not uncommon that a postdoc in the Electrical and Computer Engineering never works on computer, hardware, or software. He/she simply works on information theory (things like Shannon entropy). Then none of the engineering categories really fit, and it would be much better to code the job simply as "Research" (ie 4122). Similarly, a postdoc in the Computer Science department may never work on programming, software, or hardware; instead he/she only studies logic, computability issues (eg NP=P).

 

[toddmeng]

The reason why I avoid using specialty as NOC is that my specialty is also tricky in that sense. For example, it is not uncommon that a postdoc in the Electrical and Computer Engineering never works on computer, hardware, or software. He/she simply works on information theory (things like Shannon entropy). Then none of the engineering categories really fit, and it would be much better to code the job simply as "Research" (ie 4122). Similarly, a postdoc in the Computer Science department may never work on programming, software, or hardware; instead he/she only studies logic, computability issues (eg NP=P).

got it. You may want to call CIC to ask whether you will be fine to use 4011 or 4122.

 

[chandn]

Hi toddmeng

I am postdoc fellow and working as a Microbiologist. As per your previous discussion I understand that though being a postdoc in NOC 4011 it is better to use the NOC of our speciality.

The duties of NOC 2121 more suitable for me since it describe the dutiese of Microbiologist. I am plannnig to use current occupation as Microbiologist instead of postdoctoral Fellow in my generic form and reference letter.

However on my work permit it is written that University professor in the occupation section.

As I am planning to submit my application this month last (November), I would like to confirm this with you. Should I use NOC 4011 or 2121. will the occupation given in the work permit make any problem if i use code 2121.


Please clarify

Thanks

 

[jes_ON]

The reason why I avoid using specialty as NOC is that my specialty is also tricky in that sense. For example, it is not uncommon that a postdoc in the Electrical and Computer Engineering never works on computer, hardware, or software. He/she simply works on information theory (things like Shannon entropy). Then none of the engineering categories really fit, and it would be much better to code the job simply as "Research" (ie 4122). Similarly, a postdoc in the Computer Science department may never work on programming, software, or hardware; instead he/she only studies logic, computability issues (eg NP=P).

You could use 2148, which includes engineering scientist:

"Engineering physicists and engineering scientists conduct research, develop processes, programs and equipment to expand fundamental knowledge in the applied sciences and engineering and to support advanced engineering and scientific applications."

http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/ViewAllTitlesKeyword.aspx?val=2&val1=2148&val11=research&val12=0&val13=0&val14=&val15=0&val16=0

 

[ggalex]

I used NOC of my speciality. My work permit says post-secondary research teaching and assistants. Include strong cover letter explaining what the postdoc is. I am sure you are sued for that since everybody will ask you what the hell postdoc is

Make sure you employer's letter describes the NOC job description very well.

 

[Cos]

Hi toddmeng

I am postdoc fellow and working as a Microbiologist. As per your previous discussion I understand that though being a postdoc in NOC 4011 it is better to use the NOC of our speciality.

The duties of NOC 2121 more suitable for me since it describe the dutiese of Microbiologist. I am plannnig to use current occupation as Microbiologist instead of postdoctoral Fellow in my generic form and reference letter.

However on my work permit it is written that University professor in the occupation section.

As I am planning to submit my application this month last (November), I would like to confirm this with you. Should I use NOC 4011 or 2121. will the occupation given in the work permit make any problem if i use code 2121.


Please clarify

Thanks

You can use either of university professor (if you are significantly involved in course teaching) or your specialization as a microbiologist. You are much covered since your specialization is also the area of your postdoc work/research. If your work is principally research based (i.e. without teaching), I suggest you use your specialization. My cover letter (as a postdoc) had such intro as below:


This letter constitutes a confirmation of the employment status of xxxxxxxxx, (list professional designations if any). Dr. xxxx is employed as a Postdoctoral Fellow in my research group in the Department of xxxxx, University of xxxxxx. His/her period of employment as a Postdoctoral Fellow in the department started xxxxx and will end xxxx. During the past two years, his/her main duties have been the Applied Microbiology of .... Details of his responsibilities in the area of Applied Microbiology are as follows:

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[toddmeng]

Hi, the above replies are very helpful. fyi, I am in same situation and I used 2121. I am still waiting for my pr. So it is not confirmed. I think it should be good. Make sure your job duty matches theNOC requirements. Good luck.

Hi toddmeng

I am postdoc fellow and working as a Microbiologist. As per your previous discussion I understand that though being a postdoc in NOC 4011 it is better to use the NOC of our speciality.

The duties of NOC 2121 more suitable for me since it describe the dutiese of Microbiologist. I am plannnig to use current occupation as Microbiologist instead of postdoctoral Fellow in my generic form and reference letter.

However on my work permit it is written that University professor in the occupation section.

As I am planning to submit my application this month last (November), I would like to confirm this with you. Should I use NOC 4011 or 2121. will the occupation given in the work permit make any problem if i use code 2121.


Please clarify

Thanks

 

[chandn]

Okay. Thank you guys for the confirmation

 

[saminj]

Hi,

I am a postdoc in U of T. Do you know what is the min IELTS score we should bring for CEC application, 5 or 7?

Thanks so much,

Sami

 

[zain100]

Hey guys,
Are post-doc fellows eligible to apply for Permanent Residence?
If yes, which category are you guys applying under?
And how much work experience is required to become eligible?

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks..

 

[saruyashi]

Hi,

I am a postdoc in U of T. Do you know what is the min IELTS score we should bring for CEC application, 5 or 7?

Thanks so much,

Sami

You need 6 (IELTS band score) or 7 CLB