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Moving to Canada...?? Beware...!!!

doctor_kale

Star Member
Mar 14, 2017
55
3
Miles Corak is a professor of economics with the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs at the University of Ottawa. The full version of this post is available at milescorak.com

The challenges immigrants face in finding jobs has to do with not just the characteristics and skills they bring to the labour market, but also the state of our economy and the barriers put in their way. More and more tinkering with the selection rules used to admit immigrants will not on its own address these challenges.

In a post on my blog I called for lower rates of immigration during business cycle downturns, and a reader commented by saying:

"I arrived in Canada in July 2011 with my family and was called for exactly one job interview a couple of weeks ago. To say I am scarred is putting it mildly. I left a very successful career with the knowledge that it will be difficult to get a similar position but I never anticipated that I would end up feeling invisible and a non-entity with absolutely nothing to offer. Since coming here I have been shelling out money for everything, university fees for my kids and so on. Other than contributing to the Canadian economy through our expenses, I feel immigrants are not considered to be of any particular value."

It struck me how odd and incomplete the public policy response by Canadian opinion makers and governments is to this kind of concern, the call being for the government to once again change the selection rules so that policy gives more weight to those applying who can speak English or French.

This approach to public policy -- the suggestion that the problem lies with the characteristics that immigrants have -- cannot be the whole story, and misses the opportunity to examine the structures and characteristics of the system in which immigrants are placed: that is, to also recognize the role of labour demand.

By not adjusting the number of immigrants the country lets in with a business cycle downturn, immigration policy is forcing those who arrive here to paddle upstream. This needs to be a concern not just in the short-term, but also with respect to long-term labour market outcomes. Jobless spells will be longer than they need be, motivation will be challenged, and immigrants will be forced to take jobs in occupations that will imply lower wages over the long-term than they are qualified for.

But there is more to the problem than just the state of the business cycle, a case made by Philip Oreopoulos, a labour economist at the University of Toronto, in a paper called " Why do skilled immigrants struggle in the labour market?"

Prof. Oreopoulos applied to jobs in the Toronto area by sending out fictitious c.v.'s -- 6,000 of them -- during a period in which the labour market was booming. The important point of his research is that the c.v.'s were cleverly designed and differed in particular ways. In effect he was conducing an experiment, or what he calls a "Field Experiment".

The "control" case was a particular c.v. describing a Canadian-born individual, with a Canadian education, and with Canadian job experience, and crucially a "Canadian" sounding name. This was sent to job vacancies he found on-line, and then a series of similar c.v.'s were sent to the same vacancies. These differed slightly: some only in that the name was changed to be a common Chinese, Indian, or Pakistani name; others in addition to having different names also listed work experience that was obtained abroad; and finally others also differed in that education credentials were also obtained abroad.

Then he counted the number of call-backs for interviews received by the different type of c.v.'s.

Here is how he states his results:

The study produced four main findings:

1) Interview request rates for English-named applicants with Canadian education and experience were more than three times higher compared to resumes with Chinese, Indian, or Pakistani names with foreign education and experience (5 per cent versus 16 per cent), but were no different compared to foreign applicants from Britain;

2) Employers valued experience acquired in Canada much more than if acquired in a foreign country. Changing foreign resumes to include only experience from Canada raised callback rates to 11 per cent;

3) Among resumes listing four to six years of Canadian experience, whether an applicant's degree was from Canada or not, or whether the applicant obtained additional Canadian education or not had no impact on the chances for an interview request;

4) Canadian applicants that differed only by name had substantially different callback rates: Those with English-sounding names received interview requests 40 per cent more often than applicants with Chinese, Indian, or Pakistani names (16 per cent versus 11 per cent).

The conclusion he draws from all of this is that overall "the results suggest considerable employer discrimination against applicants with ethnic names or with experience from foreign firms."

All of this would suggest that public policy toward immigration needs not to just address supply-side concerns, and certainly the most basic way of doing that is to temporarily reduce the number of immigrants coming into the country during a major recession, but also demand-side considerations that reflect the structures and barriers in the Canadian labour market -- something that would be of benefit to us all, immigrant or not.

Courtesy: The Globe and Mail: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/why-new-canadians-struggle-to-find-jobs/article545197/
 

doctor_kale

Star Member
Mar 14, 2017
55
3
Are you new to Canada, or thinking of immigrating here for a job? You should know that employers here might ask if you have "Canadian work experience."

This may sound like an odd question. There you are, coming from outside our country. You may have years of work experience and proper credentials from your homeland. Yet that may not be enough to convince Canadian employers of your worth.

So what is "Canadian experience" and how can you get it (or get around it)? Read on for more.

What Do Employers Mean By "Canadian Experience?"

According to Jeffrey Lee, Employment Specialist /Practicum Coordinator at CDI College in Burnaby, British Columbia, "Employers look for Canadian workplace experience so that employees are familiar with workplace culture, social cues, and expectations."

Since different cultures may have different ways of handling situations, "newcomers with 'Canadian workplace experience' are seen as being more capable of getting along with the workgroup," adds Lee. He also notes that having your professional credentials and education authenticated here is important too.

There are other aspects to Canadian experience as well. Peter Dudka, Acting Program Manager, Transition to Employment Programs at Polycultural Immigrant & Community Services in Toronto, Ontario, points out that employers favour the following:

- Fluent English or French, depending on what province you are in. This is crucial. Accent is not an issue, but clear expression of ideas and understanding local terminology are what matter

- Local certification. Not necessarily a two year diploma or a Bachelor's degree, but even the shortest course here that is relevant to the job will help you stand out from other job seekers

- Narrow specialization. Many newcomers instead offer (in resumes or during job interviews) wide experience and education, from which it is difficult to extract whether they can do that particular job or not

Dudka adds to this list "the art of selling yourself, which is foreign to many newcomers in Canada. It is related to the previous point: you need to be able to clearly highlight your strengths in one particular field."


How To Get "Canadian Experience"

No Canadian experience, no job. No job, no Canadian experience. It's a conundrum that many thousands of newcomers face each year. Fortunately there are ways to overcome this obstacle.

Jeffrey Lee, who has helped internationally-trained professionals find employment, offers advice. "Many recent immigrants can start by volunteering with various charitable organizations, offering their expertise for a variety of projects."

As well, Lee recommends attending a professional mentoring group where skilled immigrants are paired with local professional peers, to talk about how to prepare for entry into their desired occupation. One such program in B.C. is from MOSAIC. He also suggests volunteering at businesses related to your profession, if they are open to this.

Peter Dudka suggests connecting with local agencies in Canada that offer free employment assistance to immigrants. "Through our agency, for example," says Dudka, "we offer advanced English classes, work placements in Canadian companies, interview preparation courses and networking events with local employers.

If you happen to live in Quebec, you can get Canadian experience working in something called a Practice Firm. These are specially made businesses that only interact with one another. No actual money or salaries are involved. Practice Firms are training facilities that let you do specific jobs as if for real. There are 30 of these Firms in Quebec, and one in Ontario. A list of these is available at the Canadian Practice Firms Network (CPFN).

Taking A Lower Level Job To Get "Canadian Experience"

To get your start in Canada, you may want to consider taking a lower level job here than you are used to. It could be quicker for you to get initial employment that pays less. While it may be a step down, it translates into Canadian experience. The truth is that this is a common approach for a good percentage of newcomers.

However be careful not to get stuck in a menial job that is hard to move upward from. It would be smart to consult directly with one of those local newcomer agencies mentioned above. They can advise you personally based on your circumstances and needs. Meanwhile, read Monster.ca articles on Working for Less: When It’s OK to Take a Pay Cut, and Should I Apply To A Job If I'm Overqualified?.


More About "Canadian Experience"

According to Jeffrey Lee, some industries such as IT (Information Technology, e.g. computing, software, telecommunications) may be less strict about where your experience is gained. Therefore this field might be easier to penetrate in Canada. At present, European-trained engineers may also have an easier time to get their credentials acknowledged than ones trained in Asia or the Middle East.

Other skilled immigrants can benefit from a program offered by the not-for-profit Allies, says Peter Dudka. Allies has created a National Mentoring Initiative in various cities across Canada. Mentoring offers a connection between a skilled immigrant and an established Canadian professional in the same or related occupation. It's a way of helping skilled newcomers integrate into the workforce faster.

Working in this great country can be marvelous. There are all sorts of challenges and rewards for immigrants.

Getting your start here can be difficult, no doubt. It will make things easier if you're prepared when the interviewer asks: "Tell us about your Canadian experience."

Courtesy: https://www.monster.ca/career-advice/article/canadian-experience-ca
 

jpv2212

Hero Member
Jan 30, 2015
993
408
Category........
FSW
Hi Doctor kale,

Firstly +1 for your effort for such a nice informative post.

Obviously, everyone knows about the hardships & struggles that could be expected after landing to Canada as a new immigrant.

However, it's this nice post which elaborates the SOLUTIONS to get over these difficulties. Every now & then we only see demoralising facts about Canadian job market and job prospects for everyone. But this post really has some important insights into "how to succeed" in Canadian job market at lowest possible struggles.

Thanks.
 

Sheran

Newbie
Mar 9, 2017
7
2
A Large percentage of the people moving to Canada are aware of the facts of the job market, someone moving to a new country especially if he is moving from the third world should be humble and not expect to certainly have similar success to the one he or she had back home, having said that, it is important that everyone know why they are immigrating and be realistic about their expectations, is the aim of the move is for you and your career growth? is it for your kids?

In Canada, there is a free universal healthcare system and free education, therefore you should only worry about being able to bring food to the table, this should not be a very hard thing to achieve in any country, and surly shouldn't be an issue in Canada. I wouldn't call doing menial and survival jobs in Canada a failure, it is just a tool you are making use of to live until you climb up the ladder (if you are capable and well geared to climb) or otherwise have things better arranged for you kids to have the capabilities you didn't have and were not able to acquire when you were settling in your new home. Finally settling down in safe, prosperous and stable country and eventually becoming a citizen will be the reward you should be looking for.
 

foodie69

VIP Member
Dec 18, 2015
3,046
913
doctor_kale said:
Has anyone got job immediately upon landing in Canada? I really doubt....
Took me 2 weeks, but I am white and from Europe. Probably proves your point above.
 

mickey_mouse

Hero Member
Oct 24, 2016
723
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Toronto
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App. Filed.......
18-05-2017
foodie69 said:
Took me 2 weeks, but I am white and from Europe. Probably proves your point above.
why a white from europe needs to move to canada? is your country suffering too? probably east europian countries suffer i guess
 

foodie69

VIP Member
Dec 18, 2015
3,046
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Has nothing to do with suffering, I am from Switzerland. Why not? Do you think Canada is for developing countries only? I came here because I could and enjoy the life I have here. Big open spaces with a lot of nature and less stress.
 

mickey_mouse

Hero Member
Oct 24, 2016
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190
Toronto
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18-05-2017
foodie69 said:
Has nothing to do with suffering, I am from Switzerland. Why not? Do you think Canada is for developing countries only? I came here because I could and enjoy the life I have here. Big open spaces with a lot of nature and less stress.
oh really ? i thot switzerland is more beautiful and peaceful than canada and less cold ;)

if i had the option i will move to switzerland not canada
 

foodie69

VIP Member
Dec 18, 2015
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mickey_mouse said:
oh really ? i thot switzerland is more beautiful and peaceful than canada and less cold ;)
sure, but way too many people. I have been gone now for 17 years and do not miss it at all.
 

mickey_mouse

Hero Member
Oct 24, 2016
723
190
Toronto
Category........
App. Filed.......
18-05-2017
foodie69 said:
sure, but way too many people. I have been gone now for 17 years and do not miss it at all.
oh i see you needed a change i guess...good for you..enjoy :)
 

iblessed

Hero Member
Mar 8, 2012
460
14
I don't agree with the offers advice. "Many recent immigrants can start by volunteering with various charitable organizations, offering their expertise for a variety of projects."

Who is paying the bills? :mad: :mad: :mad: :'( :'( :'(
 
X

xibalban

Guest
To be in a high paying job which apparently looks reputable too, but actually involves a lot of a**-wiping of the corrupt superiors is something I am personally willing to concede.

I'm willing to pick up any job, irrespective of the job description, knowing that at the end of the day, it makes me feel better and dignified as a citizen, whose hard work is appreciated.
 

doctor_kale

Star Member
Mar 14, 2017
55
3
Thanks JPV2212!

I have had a word with several individuals from Canada and world and most of them spoke about the depressing fact that it is so difficult to get job in Canada....! However, there were few who told me that yes! though it is difficult to get job but if you project yourself well, and get some Canadian experience by volunteering...things will ease out!
I am glad you liked the post!

Cheers!

Dr_K
jpv2212 said:
Hi Doctor kale,

Firstly +1 for your effort for such a nice informative post.

Obviously, everyone knows about the hardships & struggles that could be expected after landing to Canada as a new immigrant.

However, it's this nice post which elaborates the SOLUTIONS to get over these difficulties. Every now & then we only see demoralising facts about Canadian job market and job prospects for everyone. But this post really has some important insights into "how to succeed" in Canadian job market at lowest possible struggles.

Thanks.
 

Bigal653

Full Member
Jan 13, 2015
29
2
+1 for your post.

i know first hand how the market works, i had a friend who is a canadian citizen. but never step a foot in canada his whole life, until he decieded to move there, he is young (29) and his English is perfect, has a BA, and a work history and experience but from another country, i took him 6 months to find a job, not in his field but as a coffee maker at starbucks, why? becouse he dosnt have any "canadian experience" nobody would hire him.
i a positive that the workers at the gas stations and the cashiers at walmart have better quality and experience to do other things, but this is how it works.

the law makers in Canada killed the TFW program, and started to invite high qualiffied immigrats, but forgot to adjust the labor market for it.

the same process happend in Israel in the early 90's, when the iron gates were open and sovient jews immigrated to Israel. the labor market could not adjust himself to the massive immigration flood, and until now you can find proffesors, engineers, doctors and highly educated people working on a low-wage jobs, such as cleaneers, cashiers, security guards ect. 27 years past and those people canot climbe the ledder, same thing is happening in Canada.

Canada wants the highly educated with a massive work experience to work at the bottom-feeder jobs. maybe it will do for the third world country immigrants, but not working for the others, i heard and know a lot of people that left Canada after 6-12 months, becouse they didnt find a job.

the seggestion on doing a work for free just to gain Canadian expirience is ludicrise, people sell everything, quit their jobs in presut of the Canadian dream just to be waking up in a nightmare, while you are doing a free work, who is going to bay the bills? i know that ircc is akning to show finnancial abilities that you can support yourself for the first 3 months but it just wont last.