Foreign Work Experience Under Multiple NOCs - Skill Transferability CRS

[MooseNBooze]

I hope this thread will be of use to folks. Here's the issue: Can we claim foreign work experience over multiple NOC's? How is the CRS actually calculated?

Quick answer is, yes, experiences across multiple NOCs are counted as long as within last 10 years and in NOC 0, A, or B.
Sources:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/can-i-use-2-noc-codes-under-fswp-express-entry-t351626.0.html (thanks to Asivad Anac)
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/mi/express-entry.asp (see section 25)

Long answer also seems to be, yes, you can. However, the confounding CRS Tool has the following language:

"[the foreign work experience] must have been continuous, paid, full-time (or an equal amount in part-time), and in only one occupation." Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/crs-tool.asp

Note the last clause "in only one occupation." When using that tool and going by the strict interpretation of the language, folks with a total of 3+ years experience (and relevant language proficiency) but spread across multiple NOCs (whereby none of them, individually, are >2.9 years) will get a lower score than shown in their EE profile.

This scenario applies to me and I am not 100% confident that the CRS tool is wrong. The ministerial instructions (see above link re: section 25) does not provide a complete and accurate answer either, although it strongly suggests any NOC 0, A, or B experience in the last 10 years count (i.e., multiple such experiences accumulate). Here's the exact language -

"Foreign work experience

25. (1) For the purposes of sections 23 and 24, foreign work experience is work experience that

(a) is acquired by a foreign national outside Canada in one or more occupations listed in Skill Type 0 Management Occupations or Skill Level A or B of the National Occupational Classification matrix;
(b) consists of full-time work experience, or the full-time equivalent for part-time work experience, with one or more employers; and
(c) is acquired within the 10-year period preceding the day on which points are assigned to the foreign national under section 23 or subsection 24(1)."

The ministerial instructions, obviously, are the credited source. I am satisfied with what it says. However, being outside of Canada and having no rights to take an unfavorable decision by CIC to court, I would appreciate if folks with direct experience/knowledge in this matter would share their views.

Is there anyone out there who claimed points for 3+ years of foreign work experience spread over multiple NOCs, such that there wasn't a single experience over 3 years under a single NOC? Of course, I am looking for those who have already jumped through the hoops and gotten their COPR/landed.

 

[Asivad Anac]

The distinction here is CRS and FSWP eligibility.

For CRS, mix and match works. For FSW eligibility, you have to choose experience gained under a single NOC - that scale maxes out at 15 points for 6+ years of experience. Under EE, this is termed Primary NOC. So your primary NOC experience determines your program eligibility (in part) while for CRS purposes, you can have other NOCs as well provided they are 0/A/B and acquired within last 10 years.

 

[MooseNBooze]

The distinction here is CRS and FSWP eligibility.

For CRS, mix and match works. For FSW eligibility, you have to choose experience gained under a single NOC - that scale maxes out at 15 points for 6+ years of experience. Under EE, this is termed Primary NOC. So your primary NOC experience determines your program eligibility (in part) while for CRS purposes, you can have other NOCs as well provided they are 0/A/B and acquired within last 10 years.

Asivad, yes, that distinction is important. You're right. I was happy with the conventional wisdom on this board until the CRS tool threw me off. I re-read the ministerial instructions and it has me pretty convinced the CRS tool was drafted by someone who doesn't understand the need for, dare I say, rigor when it comes to phrasing the questions.

But I also wanted to hear from people in a similar situation who might have successfully gone through the process. The thing is I got ITA based on 50 max transferability points. But I don't have 3+ years of experience under a single NOC.

Do you know someone with a similar case with an approved PR app? If not, do you agree that the CRS tool's question is poorly drafted?

 

[alex_dinou]

Asivad, yes, that distinction is important. You're right. I was happy with the conventional wisdom on this board until the CRS tool threw me off. I re-read the ministerial instructions and it has me pretty convinced the CRS tool was drafted by someone who doesn't understand the need for, dare I say, rigor when it comes to phrasing the questions.

But I also wanted to hear from people in a similar situation who might have successfully gone through the process. The thing is I got ITA based on 50 max transferability points. But I don't have 3+ years of experience under a single NOC.

Do you know someone with a similar case with an approved PR app? If not, do you agree that the CRS tool's question is poorly drafted?

If at the end of submitting your profile, Express Entry has given you maximum points for having 3+ years experience in two different NOCs, then, I guess, it works for them.

But I wonder how many poor souls have been discouraged from even applying to EE once they saw the misleading text "It must have been continuous, paid, full-time (or an equal amount in part-time), and in only one occupation." for foreign work experience in CRS tool.

 

[MooseNBooze]

If at the end of submitting your profile, Express Entry has given you maximum points for having 3+ years experience in two different NOCs, then, I guess, it works for them.

But I wonder how many poor souls have been discouraged from even applying to EE once they saw the misleading text "It must have been continuous, paid, full-time (or an equal amount in part-time), and in only one occupation." for foreign work experience in CRS tool.

Exactly. The CRS Tool needs to be updated. It should accurately reflect the ministerial instructions on how the CRS (and not the minimum FSW eligibility points) is calculated.

 

[Asivad Anac]

I agree that the verbiage is misleading because some of it applies selectively to FSW. But I can confirm that CRS is NOC agnostic - you can mix and match multiple NOCs.

 

[AshyMashy]

The distinction here is CRS and FSWP eligibility.

For CRS, mix and match works. For FSW eligibility, you have to choose experience gained under a single NOC - that scale maxes out at 15 points for 6+ years of experience. Under EE, this is termed Primary NOC. So your primary NOC experience determines your program eligibility (in part) while for CRS purposes, you can have other NOCs as well provided they are 0/A/B and acquired within last 10 years.

Asivad, thank you for your precise answers. I'm just wondering, I have a 3 years 8 months experience as a paid PhD (pure project based research) candidate here in Australia, can I count that as foreign skilled work experience? I'd be much grateful if you (or any other super kind applicant/applicant's friends with similar case) could address this question. Many thanks!

Cheers,
Ash

 

[Asivad Anac]

Asivad, thank you for your precise answers. I'm just wondering, I have a 3 years 8 months experience as a paid PhD (pure project based research) candidate here in Australia, can I count that as foreign skilled work experience? I'd be much grateful if you (or any other super kind applicant/applicant's friends with similar case) could address this question. Many thanks!

Cheers,
Ash

You can count the experience provided it was under NOC 0/A/B, paid, within the last 10 years and supported by a valid reference letter.

 

[AshyMashy]

You can count the experience provided it was under NOC 0/A/B, paid, within the last 10 years and supported by a valid reference letter.

Asivad, thanks a million for your quick reply, very much appreciate it!

 

[Asivad Anac]

I thought we'd put this discussion to bed and agreed that FSW points are also given for cumulative experience over multiple occupations?

Or is there any new information suggesting otherwise?

New information being that people were still showing up 'Ineligible' all the time if they didn't have sufficient experience in their Primary NOC to add up points to 67 on the grid.

 

[ref2003]

Hello,

Submitted an Express Entry application in June 2016. Received a CRS score of 431.

In my EE application I specified multiple NOCs in my foreign work experience. The NOCs are 2281, 2282 and 0213. The first two are closely connected together. I perform the duties from all of the NOCs at my current job.

Please, advise whether it is best to just keep one NOC or multiple NOCs.

Thanks for your help.

 

[iJas]

Hello,

I have total of 4.5 years experience in same organisation spread over three different NOCs. if i go by FSW eligibility criteria, i can check my eligiility basis the latest NOC code. For CRS, i can claim points for overall experience in my current organisation.

MY question - Will one reference letter capturing all my roles and their responsibilities be enough to claim points??


TIA

 

[Vikram6390]

Can someone help me??
I am having business mgmt related study (bba from india and gbm from canada) i was a manager in india for 2+ years and i worked in canada as a carpentar for 1+ year. Now i have to apply under FSW. Can i use both the experiences which are 2 different NOC's. As crs calculator ask canadian experinece in O,A or B what i have in canada. And in last 10 years (f

 

[Vikram6390]

I am having business mgmt related study (bba from india and gbm from canada) i was a manager in india for 2+ years and i worked in canada as a carpentar for 1+ year. Now i have to apply under FSW. Can i use both the experiences which are 2 different NOC's. As crs calculator ask canadian experinece in O,A or B what i have in canada. And in last 10 years from india as well?

 

[BerneL]

I hope this thread will be of use to folks. Here's the issue: Can we claim foreign work experience over multiple NOC's? How is the CRS actually calculated?

Quick answer is, yes, experiences across multiple NOCs are counted as long as within last 10 years and in NOC 0, A, or B.
Sources:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/can-i-use-2-noc-codes-under-fswp-express-entry-t351626.0.html (thanks to Asivad Anac)
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/mi/express-entry.asp (see section 25)

Long answer also seems to be, yes, you can. However, the confounding CRS Tool has the following language:

"[the foreign work experience] must have been continuous, paid, full-time (or an equal amount in part-time), and in only one occupation." Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/crs-tool.asp

Note the last clause "in only one occupation." When using that tool and going by the strict interpretation of the language, folks with a total of 3+ years experience (and relevant language proficiency) but spread across multiple NOCs (whereby none of them, individually, are >2.9 years) will get a lower score than shown in their EE profile.

This scenario applies to me and I am not 100% confident that the CRS tool is wrong. The ministerial instructions (see above link re: section 25) does not provide a complete and accurate answer either, although it strongly suggests any NOC 0, A, or B experience in the last 10 years count (i.e., multiple such experiences accumulate). Here's the exact language -

"Foreign work experience

25. (1) For the purposes of sections 23 and 24, foreign work experience is work experience that

(a) is acquired by a foreign national outside Canada in one or more occupations listed in Skill Type 0 Management Occupations or Skill Level A or B of the National Occupational Classification matrix;
(b) consists of full-time work experience, or the full-time equivalent for part-time work experience, with one or more employers; and
(c) is acquired within the 10-year period preceding the day on which points are assigned to the foreign national under section 23 or subsection 24(1)."

The ministerial instructions, obviously, are the credited source. I am satisfied with what it says. However, being outside of Canada and having no rights to take an unfavorable decision by CIC to court, I would appreciate if folks with direct experience/knowledge in this matter would share their views.

Is there anyone out there who claimed points for 3+ years of foreign work experience spread over multiple NOCs, such that there wasn't a single experience over 3 years under a single NOC? Of course, I am looking for those who have already jumped through the hoops and gotten their COPR/landed.

Hi, I had been a elementary school teacher (noc 4032) in my hometown for three years. but Now I am an interpreter (noc 5125) in Canada. I am going to apply expressions entry with noc 5125. If the three year foreign working exprience helps me add points? My concern is those foreign working experience is not under same primary noc with my EE application.
Thank you in anticipation