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Dual Citizen entering US

keesio

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mr-moose said:
I have travelled to the U.S. a few times but only once using my U.S. passport (as I was seconded to work there for a few months and it was easier than getting a visa). Every other time, I've gone through on my Australian passport purely because I don't want to go to the short line while my wife is stuck in a huge slow moving queue with three kids.
When talking to a CBP officer or filling out the customs card, do you mention you are a US citizen at all?

If I go to the U.S. with my Australian passport, how do they know you have U.S citizenship, and even if you do, what if you don't have a current U.S. passport? Can they deny entry even if you have a valid visitors visa or whatever travel documents you require?
As for how do they know, CBP would need to know that you hold a citizenship besides US and have recorded that information in the system. For example, this information would be available for many naturalized US citizens since during their immigration to the US and during the naturalization process, this information would be disclosed.

If you are a US citizen but travel without your US passport, you can try disclosing that you are a US citizen and enter on your visa-exempt passport. As for what will happen is up to the discretion of the CBP officer. *Usually* they let you in with a warning. Sometimes they will give you a visa on the spot but limit the amount of time allowed (like 2 weeks, etc). And rarely, they will flat out deny entry. But this option is rare and usually there is some other circumstances involved like you tried to initially lie to the CBP officer or pissed him/her off or have some other "red flag" in your records.
 

screech339

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Natan said:
Most dual Canadian/U.S. citizens do not owe taxes to the IRS. The sort who are likely to owe the IRS taxes are also the sort who are likely to have attorneys to fight their case in the USA, and are thus less likely to be targets of the Department of State (DoS). Further, the cost of processing expatriate returns is far greater (by magnitudes) than the taxes produced by such returns. The DoS, as a general rule, does not concern itself with issues of taxation.
While most Canadian/US citizens do not owe taxes to IRS, only because Canadian taxes are higher than US. Once US taxes are higher than Canada, the Canadian/US citizen will pay to IRS the tax difference between US and Canada. However there are plenty of other Dual Americans other than Canada. So these people will not want to pay taxes to US, especially taxes to cover Obamacare. Note that the number of cases of US renunciations occurred when Obamacare came into effect. Of course Obama didn't like that so he increased the fees 4 fourfold.
 

keesio

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screech339 said:
Note that the number of cases of US renunciations occurred when Obamacare came into effect. Of course Obama didn't like that so he increased the fees 4 fourfold.
It wasn't really Obamacare that caused the spike in renunciations. It was when FATCA came into effect.
 

dpenabill

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mr-moose said:
I'm quite interested in this thread and the replies so far too. I have dual Australian/U.S. citizenship. I was born in Australia and have U.S. citizenship via my father who was born and raised there.

I have travelled to the U.S. a few times but only once using my U.S. passport (as I was seconded to work there for a few months and it was easier than getting a visa). Every other time, I've gone through on my Australian passport purely because I don't want to go to the short line while my wife is stuck in a huge slow moving queue with three kids.

If I go to the U.S. with my Australian passport, how do they know you have U.S citizenship, and even if you do, what if you don't have a current U.S. passport? Can they deny entry even if you have a valid visitors visa or whatever travel documents you require?
Beware: there is more than a little misinformation posted in this topic.

An American citizen cannot be denied entry into the U.S. . . . but of course, the traveler seeking entry needs to show he or she is a U.S. citizen to be entitled to entry.

Statements like "it is illegal for a U.S. citizen to enter the U.S. on a foreign passport" are nonsense. Literally nonsense. A person cannot "enter the U.S. on a passport."

On the other hand, it is a crime to make a misrepresentation to a border officer when seeking entry into the U.S. Whether or not presenting a foreign passport when entering the U.S. constitutes a misrepresentation of status would depend on all the particular circumstances involved in the transaction. While omissions can constitute misrepresentation, whether failing to disclose one's U.S. citizenship in any aspect of the entry process (ranging from custom declarations to any interview with border officers) constitutes an omission that is a misrepresentation will, again, depend on all the particular circumstances and the specific representations made in the context of the specific occasion.

It would be a misrepresentation (and illegal, a crime) to deny one is a U.S. citizen if in fact one is a U.S. citizen.

It would be a misrepresentation (and illegal, a crime) to be deliberately misleading about one's status.

However, merely presenting a foreign passport when a U.S. citizen is seeking entry ordinarily would not be misrepresentation. And entering the U.S. when given permission to enter would not be illegal.

U.S. policy is to recognize only the person's U.S. citizenship if the person is a U.S. citizen, no matter what other citizenship that person has.

As such, border officers can be very cranky with U.S. citizens who present a foreign passport or who do not have a current form of U.S. identification which meets the requirements for international travel. Admonitions are common. Lengthy referrals to secondary examinations, during which the traveler can be aggressively questioned and admonished, are not uncommon. It seems likely that a record of the warning is made and that subsequent instances can be more strained, sometimes to the level of outright hostility.

The problem is that border officers have wide, wide latitude, and travelers can be detained for a rather substantial period of time even if the reason is merely to verify the identity and status of the traveler. So, any American who has already been admonished that he or she needs to present their U.S. passport (or other authorized form of identification, such as the cheaper card the U.S. passport office will issue, or certain other forms of enhanced identification), could anticipate a rather ugly and fairly lengthy delay the next time.

But in the meantime, it is not a crime to present your Australian passport. Just be aware that at some point it is likely the U.S. authorities will connect your Australian passport with your identity as a U.S. citizen, and confront you about presenting your U.S. passport . . . how that will go, when it happens, can vary from a relatively modest warning to the possibility of a more or less hostile interview. (Note: the latter can happen to just about anyone . . . a long time ago now, in the wake of near-hysteria at the borders following 9/11 and largely due to a mistaken impression an inexperienced PIL officer had, aggravated by an odd coincidence of circumstances, I personally experienced an incredibly hostile interrogation and detention for the purpose of verifying my identity, even though I presented a U.S. passport and other U.S. identification, including drivers license and a state issued professional identification card. And all a person can do in that situation is be patient, calm, and answer questions as accurately and reasonably as possible, and wait, and it can take a long while, a very long while. Remaining calm is not always easy when an armed officer is shouting at you with his face no more than a few cm away.)


By the way, there should be no reason why you cannot get in the same line as your spouse is limited to, and then in the interview/documents check present your U.S. passport. That is the better approach, and of course the one that U.S. policy mandates.


Clarifying a common misconception about dual citizenship: in many, perhaps most countries, there is no such thing as "dual citizenship."

In particular, many countries, the U.S. and Canada included, do not formally recognize "dual citizenship" as a status, and more or less do not formally recognize that their citizens have citizenship in any other country. I am using "recognize" in a formal sense here, comparable to how a person licensed to practice law in Ohio is not recognized as a lawyer in Canada even if an official in Canada sees that the individual is a lawyer in Ohio.

As such, both the U.S. and Canada recognize, in the sense that they acknowledge or see, that some of their citizens have citizenship in another country. But there is no formal recognition of that status. If a person is a U.S. citizen, the U.S. in particular will not recognize any right to the assistance another country might provide its citizens. For example, generally a Canadian detained by authorities in the U.S. has a right to the assistance of the Canadian embassy (Mahar was denied this, with complicity from CSIS, thus entitling him to a huge settlement for compensation). If, however, the Canadian is also a citizen of the U.S., there is no right to assistance from the Canadian embassy.

Moreover, there are many American laws which apply to American citizens no matter where in the world they are located, no matter what other citizenship they have. Like prohibitions governing travel to Cuba. It is illegal, subject to certain exceptions which were recently expanded, for a Canadian citizen to travel to Cuba if that person is also an American citizen (likelihood of actual enforcement is way down compared to a decade or more ago).

Basically, what it amounts to (somewhat oversimplifying things), is that while the U.S. acknowledges many of its citizens have citizenship in other countries, the U.S. will treat its citizens as if they are exclusively U.S. citizens.
 

Natan

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dpenabill said:
Statements like "it is illegal for a U.S. citizen to enter the U.S. on a foreign passport" are nonsense. Literally nonsense.
8 USC § 1185(b) states, "Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears a valid United States passport."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1185#b
--

Congress has specified no penalties for violating this law (so there are no penalties for its violation). Congress has not authorized CBP to deny entry to U.S. citizens (so CBP may not deny U.S. citizens entry).
 

Natan

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screech339 said:
While most Canadian/US citizens do not owe taxes to IRS, only because Canadian taxes are higher than US. Once US taxes are higher than Canada, the Canadian/US citizen will pay to IRS the tax difference between US and Canada. However there are plenty of other Dual Americans other than Canada. So these people will not want to pay taxes to US, especially taxes to cover Obamacare. Note that the number of cases of US renunciations occurred when Obamacare came into effect. Of course Obama didn't like that so he increased the fees 4 fourfold.
Both the U.S. and Canada specify an upper limit, earned income below that limit not being taxed in both countries (but only in either (i) the country it is earned or (ii) the country of primary residence). Although some (not all) taxes of one country can be written of the taxes of the other, writing off the taxes simply means you do not have to pay taxes on the taxes you paid the other country -- it does not mean that you only have to pay taxes for that income to a single country. For example, if I have an earned income of US$ 200,000 last year, and I pay taxes of US$ 40,000 to the IRS, and Canada says I don't have to pay CRA double taxation on the first $100,000 (I'm ball-barking this amount) of earnings, then I would have to pay double taxes on the amount above $100,000 minus the taxes I paid to the IRS on that amount (presumably $20,000), meaning, in this example, I would have to pay CRA taxes on $80,000.

U.S. Persons who are resident outside of the U.S. are not required to have healthcare and shall not be penalized for not having healthcare while they are resident outside the country.

No one gave up their citizenship to save a measly few hundred dollars a year of healthcare coverage penalty! The fee for renouncing U.S. citizenship is $2250 -- FAR exceeding the maximum penalty for not having healthcare coverage.

American citizens have been giving up their U.S. citizenship primarily because they have been unable to maintain bank accounts, credit card accounts, mortgages, investment accounts, etc., in many foreign countries due to FATCA reporting requirements imposed on foreign financial institutions wishing to do business in the U.S., and the 35% tax withholding on all assets/transactions as a penalty on those financial institutions who do not report on their U.S. Person account holders.

A secondary reason is that the IRS has been assessing large penalties on U.S. Persons who have failed to file FBAR forms with FINCENS when they are signatories on accounts of non U.S. financial institutions whose total/aggregate value is at least US$ 10,000.
 

dpenabill

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Natan said:
8 USC § 1185(b) states, "Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears a valid United States passport."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1185#b
--

Congress has specified no penalties for violating this law (so there are no penalties for its violation). Congress has not authorized CBP to deny entry to U.S. citizens (so CBP may not deny U.S. citizens entry).
The "exceptions" are so many and so broad, they are the rule.

Apart from that, however, this provision does not make it illegal, let alone a crime, to present a valid Travel Document from another country when seeking entry into the U.S. It literally does not, itself, require a U.S. citizen to present a U.S. passport (other provisions and rules do, however, require a U.S. citizen to present all Travel Documents in possession, if asked, including Travel Documents issued by either the U.S. or any other country).

And again, one does not, cannot "enter on a passport," so to say it is illegal to do so is meaningless. At most, a traveler presents a Travel Document to an examining officer and by doing so makes an application for permission to enter the U.S. The traveler then enters the U.S. pursuant to the permission granted, assuming it is granted. It is of course illegal to commit fraud in making such an application. It is illegal to enter without permission (even if the person is entitled to entry).

Just showing up at a PoE is construed to be making an application for entry . . . with some exceptions (such as doing a dedicated flagpole, pursuant to which the traveler ordinarily must formally state, often in writing, he or she is not seeking entry).
 

alphazip

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dpenabill said:
The "exceptions" are so many and so broad, they are the rule.

Apart from that, however, this provision does not make it illegal, let alone a crime, to present a valid Travel Document from another country when seeking entry into the U.S. It literally does not, itself, require a U.S. citizen to present a U.S. passport (other provisions and rules do, however, require a U.S. citizen to present all Travel Documents in possession, if asked, including Travel Documents issued by either the U.S. or any other country).

And again, one does not, cannot "enter on a passport," so to say it is illegal to do so is meaningless. At most, a traveler presents a Travel Document to an examining officer and by doing so makes an application for permission to enter the U.S. The traveler then enters the U.S. pursuant to the permission granted, assuming it is granted. It is of course illegal to commit fraud in making such an application. It is illegal to enter without permission (even if the person is entitled to entry).

Just showing up at a PoE is construed to be making an application for entry . . . with some exceptions (such as doing a dedicated flagpole, pursuant to which the traveler ordinarily must formally state, often in writing, he or she is not seeking entry).
Here's a good article on the subject: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/05/01/the-history-of-the-requirement-that-u-s-citizens-only-use-u-s-passports-to-enter-the-u-s/
 

mr-moose

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keesio said:
When talking to a CBP officer or filling out the customs card, do you mention you are a US citizen at all?
I certainly would do. However, I wouldn't get a U.S. passport unless I was either planning on staying there for a longer period of time or had plans to visit there multiple times over a short period. Other than that, I'd always travel on my Australian passport.
 

screech339

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keesio said:
It wasn't really Obamacare that caused the spike in renunciations. It was when FATCA came into effect.
Yes. I forgot about FATCA. They wanted to enforced this to collect income tax to cover Obamacare.
 

Natan

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alphazip said:
Here's a good article on the subject: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/05/01/the-history-of-the-requirement-that-u-s-citizens-only-use-u-s-passports-to-enter-the-u-s/
The Isaac Brock Society blog is not a reliable source of information. This blog encourages people to illegally avoid paying U.S. taxes, not as a form of civil disobedience, but as criminal tax evasion. The blogger/owner is a bit of a tin-hatted crackpot.
 

dnyfyn

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Simply when you are a citizen of that country enter with the passport of that country. Problem solved.
 

Natan

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screech339 said:
Yes. I forgot about FATCA. They wanted to enforced this to collect income tax to cover Obamacare.
Complete nincompoopery!

FATCA does not raise funds, it COSTS funds. Most of the people who have been caught up in FATCA and FBAR complications would not owe any money to the IRS had they filed their tax forms in a timely manner. U.S. Persons (for tax purposes) have been required to file U.S. tax and FBAR returns for as long as I can remember.

FATCA is not designed to discover tax cheats -- tax evaders employ sophisticated strategies that FATCA does not uncover. So far, only the poor and middle classes have been inconvenienced by FATCA implementation.

There is no connection between FATCA and the ACA.

screech339, once the black, Kenyan, muslim, Hitler-like, terrorist, racist, America hating, basketball playing, socialist, fried chicken eating, Obamacare, communist man is no longer President, who will you rail against?
 

dnyfyn

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Natan said:
Complete nincompoopery!

FATCA does not raise funds, it COSTS funds. Most of the people who have been caught up in FATCA and FBAR complications would not owe any money to the IRS had they filed their tax forms in a timely manner. U.S. Persons (for tax purposes) have been required to file U.S. tax and FBAR returns for as long as I can remember.

FATCA is not designed to discover tax cheats -- tax evaders employ sophisticated strategies that FATCA does not uncover. So far, only the poor and middle classes have been inconvenienced by FATCA implementation.

There is no connection between FATCA and the ACA.

screech339, once the black, Kenyan, muslim, Hitler-like, terrorist, racist, America hating, basketball playing, socialist, fried chicken eating, Obamacare, communist man is no longer President, who will you rail against?
Well said. I LOVE CANADA
 

alphazip

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Natan said:
The Isaac Brock Society blog is not a reliable source of information. This blog encourages people to illegally avoid paying U.S. taxes, not as a form of civil disobedience, but as criminal tax evasion. The blogger/owner is a bit of a tin-hatted crackpot.
As a dual, I find the Isaac Brock Society blog to be interesting and informative. Although I'm just a casual reader at the site, and have never contributed, I see it as a place for people with a common problem...navigating U.S. tax laws while residing in Canada...to share information. Of course, some of the people reading the blog (such as myself) are complying with U.S. tax requirements, and some are not. Everyone has to decide such issues for him/herself, and sharing information on the subject is a plus. While it's true that the site is not objective, in that it is opposed to the taxation of non-residents (as practiced only by the United States and Eritrea), I don't see that that makes the site unreliable. Actually, I think that most U.S. citizens living in Canada think that U.S. tax laws impact them negatively.