Determination of Permanent Resident status questionnaire and withdraw

[Joe2013]

Hi Mr Leon,

is about a month I'm reading a lot of posts in here, unfortunately I couldn't find a case similar to mine.

I became a PR many years ago but my father decided to go back in europe in the 80's, me and wife after having our baby in 2010 we decided to come to Canada, when we landed they gave a temporary work permit to my wife (she made TFW before leaving our country) and they told me that I was a PR (I didn't know this) and I had to submit the PR Card application explaining the reasons I wasn't here for so long. I just followed their directions and only after I found out that I was in trouble by myself.

My wife is now applying for a LMO and an extension for TFW and I received on mid december a letter from Hamilton CIC asking to fill the IMM 5511, I have a little child and I will probably go to H&C grounds even knowing that I don't have a very strong case, so I was wondering if withdraw my application would be a good idea?

In the letter under the H&C consideration talks about 180 day compliance, and after this period "A decision to abandon your case will be made if you fail to provide information as requested, or fail to report for a personal interview".

I even thought to don't answer (was a regular mail, non registered) pretending I never received nothing, and in case they don't abandon and they will notice my lost of status than I could appeal for H&C and at that time could be even in 2015 I would probably have a stronger case.

Sorry, It's a bit confusing but I'm so upset with myself because I followed their directions. I learned from this site too late that I was supposed to wait 2 years from our landing.

Thanks a lot Mr Leon for your advices.

 

[computergeek]

I became a PR many years ago but my father decided to go back in europe in the 80's, me and wife after having our baby in 2010 we decided to come to Canada, when we landed they gave a temporary work permit to my wife (she made TFW before leaving our country) and they told me that I was a PR (I didn't know this) and I had to submit the PR Card application explaining the reasons I wasn't here for so long. I just followed their directions and only after I found out that I was in trouble by myself.

I think before answering further there are a few questions in order:

(1) What date did you enter Canada?
(2) Have you left Canada since that time?
(3) When you entered Canada, did the border service officer issue an A44(1) report to you? Were you served with a removal order?

If the border officer did not report your for being out of compliance, the time in Canada counts towards your PR residency obligation. You don't say exactly when you came back to Canada ("after our baby in 2010") but if you arrived in Canada on December 31, 2010 and remained in Canada since then without an A44(1) report pending then you came back into compliance with the PR residency obligation on December 31, 2012 - one week ago.

The officer that handled renewing your wife's work permit may have noticed you were out of compliance. Again, if an A44(1) report was made, then the time after that doesn't count - but arguing H&C for a 45 day shortfall is vastly easier than a 730 day shortfall.

I'm guessing you haven't been served with a removal order or the officer wouldn't have given you a residency questionnaire. Here is what ENF 23 says:

When an officer believes a permanent resident has failed to comply with their A28 residency obligation, then that officer should report the permanent resident under the provisions of A44(1) and recommend the issuing of a departure order. The form Questionnaire: Determination of Permanent Resident Status (IMM 5511B) has been developed specifically to assist officers in making decisions regarding the permanent residency obligation, keeping in mind that the questionnaire alone is not sufficient to determine compliance with the residency obligation, and a detailed interview including examining humanitarian and compassionate criteria under A28(2)(c) is needed.

So the purpose of this form is to determine if you are in compliance with the residency obligation and whether or not to issue an A44(1) report.

I'm going to speculate a bit here, based upon what you have said: you came to Canada at some point in the last three years. At the the time the border officer did not issue an A44(1) report - if he or she had, you wouldn't have CIC asking you for an IMM 5511 form.

You've been asked to complete the IMM 5511 because a CIC officer noticed you are not in compliance with the residency obligation. You no doubt have some period of time in which to respond - probably 30 or maybe 60 days.

If you do not respond, the most likely outcome is that they will issue you a removal order - a 30 day departure order. If you ignore that order, it will convert into a deportation order. A deportation order constitutes a lifetime ban on entering Canada. Of course, there's a process for lifting such a ban, but it's an expensive and time-consuming process. That is the most likely outcome if you ignore the IMM 5511 request.

If you do respond, you will be allowed to present arguments for why you should be allowed to retain your permanent residency status. Of course, you can also agree to voluntarily surrender it - that's really your choice.

Timing here is quite important - hence my first and second question.

If you wish to remain in Canada, I'd suggest trying to keep your PR. If you are successful at keeping it, then you can sponsor your wife and child to become permanent residents as well. Otherwise, you would need to go through the full application process.

Have you spoken with an attorney? If not, you really would be well served by doing so, just to make sure you don't make a serious mistake in navigating this process.

 

[Msafiri]

Hi Mr Leon,

is about a month I'm reading a lot of posts in here, unfortunately I couldn't find a case similar to mine.

I became a PR many years ago but my father decided to go back in europe in the 80's, me and wife after having our baby in 2010 we decided to come to Canada, when we landed they gave a temporary work permit to my wife (she made TFW before leaving our country) and they told me that I was a PR (I didn't know this) and I had to submit the PR Card application explaining the reasons I wasn't here for so long. I just followed their directions and only after I found out that I was in trouble by myself.

My wife is now applying for a LMO and an extension for TFW and I received on mid december a letter from Hamilton CIC asking to fill the IMM 5511, I have a little child and I will probably go to H&C grounds even knowing that I don't have a very strong case, so I was wondering if withdraw my application would be a good idea?

In the letter under the H&C consideration talks about 180 day compliance, and after this period "A decision to abandon your case will be made if you fail to provide information as requested, or fail to report for a personal interview".

I even thought to don't answer (was a regular mail, non registered) pretending I never received nothing, and in case they don't abandon and they will notice my lost of status than I could appeal for H&C and at that time could be even in 2015 I would probably have a stronger case.

Sorry, It's a bit confusing but I'm so upset with myself because I followed their directions. I learned from this site too late that I was supposed to wait 2 years from our landing.

Thanks a lot Mr Leon for your advices.

As at today do you already have 730 days of physical presence in Canada in the last 5 years? If yes and you have conclusive proof of this then on the basis that you were never reported withdraw your current PR card application and submit a fresh application. I don't see why you can't send the withdrawal letter for the original application and the fresh application at the same time. In a fresh application CIC is required by law to consider only the 5 year period from the date of the application (as signed by the applicant not date of receipt by CIC). CIC are not allowed to look back beyond this 5 year period.

It seems you were not reported..the fact the the Immigration Officer admitted you and advised you to apply for a PR Card means he/she considered the breach of the RO and disregarded it. That you have been sent a questionnaire adds to this...else they would have been trying to remove you from Canada by now.

If you don't have the 730 days then withdraw the original PR application but don't submit a fresh application.

Ultimatley the best advise will come from some one with qualifications and experience in immigration law that will have all the details of your circumstances before them. This forum complements such but is not a substitute unless for basic/ simple circumstances..yours isn't so clear.

Good luck

 

[computergeek]

I'm sorry, but the hurry doesn't helped me to explain, we landed in Canada in May 2012, no one makes a report to me. I think I'm going to withdraw my application, (they ask for a reason, what should I put) and from what I understand I hope they don't investigate. In case they do it, and they will take off my status I will appeal and hope to find an sensitive Judge that understand that our little one would have a better future in this country.
The answers of your question are:

1: PR.
2: since may 2012 I left canada a couple of weeks.
3: I had no report.

Ah, so you are not close to 730 days and won't be until June 2014. Yes, that makes your situation quite a bit more difficult.

My concern is that withdrawing the application may still lead to an A44(1) report, but at this point there's little you can do. It's still worthwhile discussing your situation with an experienced immigration attorney.

Good luck!

 

[computergeek]

Thanks Computergeek,

I have a lawyer, and actually my situation it's singular, so at this point there isn't much to lose, withdrawing or answering confirming the breach of RO will give me always an A44(1). I read in this section that to someone has been accepted the withdrawal, I have to hope, and in case of an A44(1) I will appeal for H&C grounds. What do you think about that?
Thanks a lot for your opinion.

Hmm. I suppose you could say that your present life circumstances do not permit you to gather the required documentation for the RQ within the required time frame and thus you would prefer to withdraw the application at the present time. Better yet, have your lawyer write the letter - lawyers are good at prevarication, and that's exactly what is needed at this point.

It would be true and might be enough to get them to just say "whatever" and not issue an A44(1) report. If that does happen, my advice is to stay in Canada until you have the required 730 days in country and then apply for a new PR card. At that point you can sponsor your wife and child for PR as well.

I don't think that this is a particularly singular case, since I've seen a variety of questions of this type in the past, but it may not be one your attorney has seen previously.

Good luck!

 

[Joe2013]

Computergeek, sorry if I erased the previous messages, but I have been suggested to do so, because cic investigates a lots here! I'm sorry about that and thanks again for your help.

 

[mehrdad13512000]

hello
I and my wife and daughter applied for renew PR cards in Dec 2012. We have the same residence(more than 1600 days) in Canada during last 5 years. They received new PR cards but for me, when I applied urgent process the officer replied me determination of permanent residence status questionnaire in May 2013. I replied them quickly and attached job letter pay stub and supporting document. The date of my air ticket is 21 July 2013. kindly let me know how long does it take so that they renew PR cards? can I hope that I receive it before that 21 July?
Thank you in advanced for your kind attention.
Sincerely yours
Mehrdad

 

[computergeek]

hello
I and my wife and daughter applied for renew PR cards in Dec 2012. We have the same residence(more than 1600 days) in Canada during last 5 years. They received new PR cards but for me, when I applied urgent process the officer replied me determination of permanent residence status questionnaire in May 2013. I replied them quickly and attached job letter pay stub and supporting document. The date of my air ticket is 21 July 2013. kindly let me know how long does it take so that they renew PR cards? can I hope that I receive it before that 21 July?
Thank you in advanced for your kind attention.
Sincerely yours
Mehrdad

If your file was referred to a local office, it will generally take 4-6 months for the local office to review your file and issue the card.

In the interim, you may want to plan on applying for a PRTD in the country where you are visiting. You do not need the PR card to LEAVE Canada - only to RETURN to Canada. It is the airline that will require it as well (CBSA can confirm your status independently).

 

[Joe2013]

I think before answering further there are a few questions in order:

(1) What date did you enter Canada?
(2) Have you left Canada since that time?
(3) When you entered Canada, did the border service officer issue an A44(1) report to you? Were you served with a removal order?

If the border officer did not report your for being out of compliance, the time in Canada counts towards your PR residency obligation. You don't say exactly when you came back to Canada ("after our baby in 2010") but if you arrived in Canada on December 31, 2010 and remained in Canada since then without an A44(1) report pending then you came back into compliance with the PR residency obligation on December 31, 2012 - one week ago.

The officer that handled renewing your wife's work permit may have noticed you were out of compliance. Again, if an A44(1) report was made, then the time after that doesn't count - but arguing H&C for a 45 day shortfall is vastly easier than a 730 day shortfall.

I'm guessing you haven't been served with a removal order or the officer wouldn't have given you a residency questionnaire. Here is what ENF 23 says:

So the purpose of this form is to determine if you are in compliance with the residency obligation and whether or not to issue an A44(1) report.

I'm going to speculate a bit here, based upon what you have said: you came to Canada at some point in the last three years. At the the time the border officer did not issue an A44(1) report - if he or she had, you wouldn't have CIC asking you for an IMM 5511 form.

You've been asked to complete the IMM 5511 because a CIC officer noticed you are not in compliance with the residency obligation. You no doubt have some period of time in which to respond - probably 30 or maybe 60 days.

If you do not respond, the most likely outcome is that they will issue you a removal order - a 30 day departure order. If you ignore that order, it will convert into a deportation order. A deportation order constitutes a lifetime ban on entering Canada. Of course, there's a process for lifting such a ban, but it's an expensive and time-consuming process. That is the most likely outcome if you ignore the IMM 5511 request.

If you do respond, you will be allowed to present arguments for why you should be allowed to retain your permanent residency status. Of course, you can also agree to voluntarily surrender it - that's really your choice.

Timing here is quite important - hence my first and second question.

If you wish to remain in Canada, I'd suggest trying to keep your PR. If you are successful at keeping it, then you can sponsor your wife and child to become permanent residents as well. Otherwise, you would need to go through the full application process.

Have you spoken with an attorney? If not, you really would be well served by doing so, just to make sure you don't make a serious mistake in navigating this process.

Wow what a fantastic response, so:
1- I never been issue for a report or removal order, but the second time I've entered the country I was warned to don't try again without a Pr card, otherwise lost of status.

Entered Canada begin of april 2012 and left canada for 12 days until today.
I did receive an 5511 and answered the need of more days and together a withdraw of application, after 6 months I got the acceptance of the withdraw and basically telling me that in the future, apply only if you have the days.
I do wanna keep my status, that's why I'm asking you guys.
So would you recommend to apply for a PR Card with supporting documents?
Cic agents told me to request by myself a list of entry exit and include it to the application.

I didn't speak with an attorney... but I've work for a MP and spoke with the manager... it seems once you have the 2 years in the last five you should be ok, it looks the visa officers wants to keep here good people that pay taxes and have the will to do better.

 

[computergeek]

I didn't speak with an attorney... but I've work for a MP and spoke with the manager... it seems once you have the 2 years in the last five you should be ok, it looks the visa officers wants to keep here good people that pay taxes and have the will to do better.

CIC can only look back 5 years from the date the application is received. So if you are in compliance today and they receive your application, any period in which you were not in compliance is moot (assuming there's no pending post-A44(1) report investigation or removal in process).

If you can document this, so much the better.

I know someone who was out of compliance, admitted on H&C grounds by CBSA and then he sponsored his wife and child (he states CBSA told him that he could do so). Of course CIC initiated an investigation to see if he was eligible, but it has now taken so long he's clearly back in compliance. When he applied for a new PR card he actually received it within 30 days! So yes, it really does work exactly as you thought.