delay in citizenship recognised by govt

[Leon]

I'm interested in knowing how many citizenship files have been cleared since 2006.

You can find the stats online. I downloaded them about a month ago out of curiousity so here they are:

2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
Applications Received 227.520 242.400 232.960 208.800 223.040 317.440
New CDN Citizens 199.866 176.567 156.342 143.595 181.288 113.111
Inventory 189.886 222.594 259.709 290.854 280.233 349.249

As you see, they are processing less applications while the number of applications is increasing and the waiting list grows longer and longer.

 

[EasyRider]

You can find the stats online. I downloaded them about a month ago out of curiousity so here they are:

2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
Applications Received 227.520 242.400 232.960 208.800 223.040 317.440
New CDN Citizens 199.866 176.567 156.342 143.595 181.288 113.111
Inventory 189.886 222.594 259.709 290.854 280.233 349.249

As you see, they are processing less applications while the number of applications is increasing and the waiting list grows longer and longer.

Any idea, what's wrong with these "inventory" numbers? Seems a lot of applications are "lost" and unaccounted here. For example:

1) In 2010 and 2011 there were way more applications received than new citizens, but inventory dropped from 290K to 280K? Even if we'll count unsuccessful applications (withdrawn/refused) which are about 4-5K applications a year, yearly inventory number change doesn't make up for a difference. How it's possible?

2) From 2011 to 2012 inventory grew only for 70,000, but there were 200,000 less new citizens than applications received in 2012 and 40,000 less new citizens than applications in 2011. Again, unsuccessful applications can't possibly make difference because they're in 4-digit numbers yearly. Where did the rest tens of thousands go and why they're not in inventory?

What does inventory mean? Is it just some part of all not finalized applications? For me seems there are a lot more people waiting for decision than just the number shown in "inventory". If so, what's the total number of people with open applications? 500,000? A million?

Is CIC not telling the full story here (and if so, possibly implicitly duping everybody into thinking that there are just 350,000 people waiting for citizenship)?

I'm saying this because the media and politicians on record use different definitions for this 350,000 number-- inventory, backlog, people in backlog, people waiting decision etc.

But simple math doesn't make sense, and nobody seems to be knowing what they're talking about or I'm missing something else here?

 

[Leon]

I have seen that too and I really do not know what they mean by it. The numbers don't seem to add up.

It is an excel file. It does not offer any further explanation of what is behind the numbers. It also has a section for applications for citizenship certificates which is not really relevant and it also offers data on how many citizenship ceremonies there were which is also not very relevant. I assume that the "inventory" is the number of applications waiting but it may or may not include applications that were sent to local office for RQ and it also doesn't say if the inventory posted for say 2012 is what they took over at the start of the year or standing inventory at the end of the year.

You can see the same data here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/data-release/2012-Q4/index.asp but I got it from here: http://www.data.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=7F1BDB41-1

 

[EasyRider]

I have seen that too and I really do not know what they mean by it. The numbers don't seem to add up.

It is an excel file. It does not offer any further explanation of what is behind the numbers. It also has a section for applications for citizenship certificates which is not really relevant and it also offers data on how many citizenship ceremonies there were which is also not very relevant. I assume that the "inventory" is the number of applications waiting but it may or may not include applications that were sent to local office for RQ and it also doesn't say if the inventory posted for say 2012 is what they took over at the start of the year or standing inventory at the end of the year.

It's the bottom table:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/data-release/2012-Q4/index.asp

I did superficial analysis with examples above, but no matter how you look at it, inventory growth (or even shrinking) just doesn't make up to yearly differences between applications received and new Canadians. As for unsuccessful applications, Citizenship Commission reports provide some insight (stopped publishing after 2009)-- they are in few thousands yearly (at least before 2009). So, unsuccessful applications can't help to make up to difference.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/cit-ann-report-2008.asp#year

"Inventory" could be applications at certain stage or status within CIC, or family applications with more than 1 member grouped into one unit, for example.

The problem with lack of transparency and understanding of CIC is that it may be very well giving a wrong idea about how many people are affected in reality. For example, some liberal MP's are using this number now to draw attention to the timelines problem, but then call it a "backlog" for some reason (maybe an indication they don't really know what they're talking about). Well, 350,000 is one thing, but if it's really 500,000+ people awaiting decision, it could be a different game!

"With over 300,000 permanent residents sitting in a Conservative-created backlog waiting for their Canadian citizenship, it is clear the responsible minister, Jason Kenney, cares more about photo ops and his public image than he does about improving the immigration system and managing his own department."

http://www.liberal.ca/newsroom/blog/harper-conservatives-leave-new-immigrants-in-citizenship-limbo/

 

[Leon]

Unrelated, as I was looking through their statistics, I clicked on research and found this interesting paper on immigrant taxi drivers in Canada: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/research/taxi/index.asp

 

[CanuckForEver]

The problem with lack of transparency and understanding of CIC is that it may be very well giving a wrong idea about how many people are affected in reality. For example, some liberal MP's are using this number now to draw attention to the timelines problem, but then call it a "backlog" for some reason (maybe an indication they don't really know what they're talking about). Well, 350,000 is one thing, but if it's really 500,000+ people awaiting decision, it could be a different game!

"With over 300,000 permanent residents sitting in a Conservative-created backlog waiting for their Canadian citizenship, it is clear the responsible minister, Jason Kenney, cares more about photo ops and his public image than he does about improving the immigration system and managing his own department."

http://www.liberal.ca/newsroom/blog/harper-conservatives-leave-new-immigrants-in-citizenship-limbo/

My point exactly: Transparency, Transparency and more Transparency.

1. You don't need 4 years to realize if an applicant has really spent 1095 days in Canada. For a nation of first order, I'm really, really hoping it is not an operational inefficiency. Even third world countries detect liars who commit felony in months. Seriously we need to know what's happening here!

2. If you really intend to have it delayed for 48 months at least have the balls to say it loud. Say it, "I think your ties with Canada isn't strong enough. You will be under citizenship probation for the next 48 months for us to get convinced that you are really a part of this great honorable society. Even though we didn't find any considerable proof that you lied, we feel so due to <so and so> events that triggers suspicions". How about it? That looks like what a man would do, taking the high road!

3. For those of you who say CIC doesn't have to do these things and we don't have a right to get this kind of treatment. Citizenship is not an entitlement its a privilege blah, blah, blah, I say "colonial hangover ?" or "your dictatorial native country's reminiscent?" or "Racism?". Wake up! This is a first world nation for a reason, all for one and one for all. No one has dominance over others. This is only fair to ask.

4. No explanation for the delays, indefinitely long periods of wait times and head tucked under the sand attitude; I say for all these, racial profiling is the reason. How much ever other people deny it or shrug it off, it is very much out there. And that is mean!

5. People who're affected are in a, for the lack of better word, citizenship limbo. CIC handles this strategy to mail out test dates and oath dates within short notice, say 10 days, to test if the applicant is indeed a resident of Canada and is able to meet this appointment. That's worst possible way of verifying. Why hasn't it occurred to CIC's mind that applicants might go on a vacation? applicants might as well receive the letter late (which happens most of the time with Canada Post)? applicants have made other plans for such a short notice? I'm not naïve to believe all these people who complaint about delays in the forum want to stay here after gaining a Canadian passport but look at most of the cases their plight is this immobility and not "getting the heck out" attitude!

Just a thought!

 

[Canadian13]

Hi everyone,
I’m a new registered member in this forum, though I’m a regular follower to its topics. I have found many of the information provided by some of the members to be relatively thorough and helpful. Frankly speaking, I consider this forum more transparent and efficient in the way it delivers the information than the CIC official website and call center agents.
That’s been said, I have noticed some of the negativity circulating around and causing some to exceed the limits of politeness and go far off topic. Most of us understand the frustration that could be generated from long waiting time and not having a clear idea about what’s coming ahead. I mean it might’ve been less irritating if we were suffering from this unjust bureaucracy in a third world country. But when it affects us and our way of living here in Canada, that can’t be justified in any reasonable way, and yes this unfortunate circumstance permits conspiracies to emerge and even transform to some form of facts if they weren’t denounced. This is exactly what’s happening here, the government introduced those new measures to fight fraud and penalize those who took or taking advantage of the so-called lenient system. I can’t stop myself from asking this obvious question: how many fraudulents did the government succeed in catching since those measures put in place, of course excluding the 3100 revoked citizenships as those were more of a cause for implementing those measures and not a consequence. Now this theory might lead many of us to think of the possibility that the current government wishes to put indefinitely most of the qualified to-be citizens under some sort of idleness. Nonetheless, the time frame, of which I’m speaking, is clear to some of us. We might see a light at the end of this tunnel sometime, but don’t rise your hopes as you won’t catch the first glimpse anywhere before (Oct, 2015)!!!.
Finally, I would like to thank everyone who’s contributing to this fine forum, and allow me to personally thank (CanuckForEver), it seems that you took the thoughts off my mind and poured them here. I wholeheartedly agree with you and fully support your enthusiasm.
For those who use unfortunate language like: Go back to your country, or you shouldn’t be granted a citizenship, and other rhetorical rants, this isn’t Sun or Fox news commentary section. And please don’t hide behind free speech and sharing of opinion excuses. You should be smart enough to draw a line between free speech and racial slurs.
Good luck to all!!

 

[CanuckForEver]

@ Canadian13: Thank you!
Vow my very first forum admirer! That's so elating!

 

[Hnhkrk]

I feel like I need to point out that my jab at mikeathome wasn't meant as a racial slur. It was a joke about his username. I swear.

 

[Canadian13]

@ CanuckForEver: you’re quite welcome! I just feel that we’re on the same ground on many issues.
@ Hnhkrk: Thanks for taking the time to clarify, it means a lot to many of us. I hope that my remark didn't cause any distress, excuse me if it did.
Please rest assured that your opinion matter to us, whether we agree with you or not. By the way I agree with most of the things you’ve mentioned. I wish you all the best.
Keep up the good work!

 

[newcomer]

Another discussion about citizenship application delays at CBC Radio

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/Local+Shows/Maritimes/Mainstreet+%28NS%29/ID/2381341467/

I believe, the most important point which could be concluded from the discussion was that according to government sources 60,000 applicants were randomly selected for issuing RQ (and most probably that would have taken place in 2012 alone).It was disclosed by the reporter at the beginning of the discussion.

 

[Halloum]

Thank you newcomer.

It's not clear whether this number is a cumulative outstanding number or, for example, it only represents RQs issued in 2012 including resolved ones. Further, i don't agree with the 'randomly' assertion, some RQs were but not all.