Blueboy1980 said:
. . . recently received my renewed PR card and a week later I applied for my citizenship because when I spoke to CIC they said the PR renewal has nothing to do with a citizenship application and are completely separate.
Papaella said:
. . . recently renewed my PR and applied to the citizenship right after that. As Blueboy stated the two applications are separate and according to the CIC website one does not affect the other in any way.
The
process is undoubtedly separate. After all, eligibility requirements are different.
More significantly, one merely involves the verification of status (PR card application), while the other (citizenship application), in contrast, is an application to be
granted perhaps the most important status a person can be granted by the Canadian government.
That said, a lot of the relevant information is the same. Regarding this, make no mistake, as separate and distinct as the
processing is, the
information in the respective applications can be compared and, one can anticipate, is more or less likely to be compared (perhaps depending on factors like how close in time one is made versus the other) -- noting, for example, that all the information is respectively maintained in the client's GCMS records where much of the information is stored in specific fields accessible to any GCMS query regardless which application is being processed. (Moreover, seems likely the GCMS is programmed to identify and flag when inconsistent data is entered in certain, respective fields.)
Blueboy1980 said:
. . . my citizenship application has gone much quicker than expected . . . so Im not sure if im lucky in that respect or the PR card renewal has affected this.
Not at all likely to accelerate routine processing timeline:
As for the prospect that a recently completed PR application might accelerate the processing timeline, again there is
NO hint it will speed the process up any faster than the usual routine timeline. Indeed, there is no step in the process where it could conceivably speed up the routine process.
Remember, IRCC is a bureaucracy, a huge bureaucracy, and in many respects its functionality is more machine-like than human.
The fastest, routinely processed application involves minimal, discrete person-engaged steps, each step typically planned for taking and in practice (with some exceptions) taking a
fraction of an hour:
-- steps involved in receiving and initiating processing done in Sydney, including referral to local office and referral to RCMP & CSIS for background checks
-- local office review of the application in preparation for documents check interview (for routine applicants, RCMP & CSIS background clearances will be complete and recorded in GCMS before this step takes place)
-- local office knowledge of Canada test
-- local office documents check interview (almost always attendant time of test)
-- Citizenship Officer assessment based on interview and decision to grant citizenship
-- oath
In the routine application each of those steps involve only a fraction of an hour except the test itself, the latter which nonetheless means the IRCC personnel spend only a fraction of an hour per applicant since dozens of applicants are tested at the same time. With some exceptions, each of these steps is most likely started and completed within that fraction of an hour. Except the process in Sydney itself probably involves two or three discrete steps, but progress from one to the other will be more or less mechanical and overall, for the routine application, from opening the package to making the referral to the local office, probably takes a minimal amount of time.
That is, for the majority of applications, each step takes only a relatively short amount of time and is done in one setting.
The real wait time is mostly, overwhelmingly,
queue time; the application is just sitting and waiting for someone to take the next step-action. Actual processing time for the routine application, the total amount of time a person in IRCC spends on the application, probably adds up,
in TOTAL to way less than a day.
No more than a number of hours, probably just a few hours at most.
Note, for example, that it is not uncommon for the test, interview, decision-making, and oath steps to all be completed in a few days, sometimes all done in a single day (for me it was less than 48 hours from my interview to post-oath congratulations).
The bulk of processing time is time waiting for IRCC to open the application in Sydney, and then for the local office to open the application for local office processing, and then waiting for the test/interview to be scheduled. Then, some routine applicants take the oath very soon (sometimes within hours), while for many others there is a wait (usually this is relatively brief, a few weeks or months) to be scheduled for the oath.
There really is nothing which can accelerate this process except some applicants, who meet specified criteria, can be given
urgent processing which probably means their application jumps the queue for applications waiting for the local office to open, and then gets priority in scheduling test/interview and the oath. These are not really processed any faster, but do not have to wait nearly so long in between steps so overall they go much faster.
But many things may interrupt or stall this process.
There are probably scores of things which can cause minor interruptions, things which do not knock the application out of a routine processing track but which can result in this or that step taking longer. Certain factors or circumstances may result in additional internal inquiries, such as checking CBSA travel history, querying additional resources, making telephone calls, checking the internet (yes, for example IRCC is known to look at LinkedIn information in accounts for persons with the applicant's name, including similar names). Sometimes background clearances are delayed and the local office needs to wait for these (CSIS clearances in particular can cause delays).
Then there are many things which can knock the application off the routine processing track, ranging from reasons for making a FP request to concerns about presence declarations leading to the issuance of a Residency Questionnaire. Response to referrals for background clearances can trigger further inquiries, even further referrals for investigations.
The things which can slow routine processing, and things which can knock the application off the routine processing track (resulting in significant delays), can happen during any of the steps. Residency concerns, for example, can be identified (applying triage criteria for example) when the application is initially screened in Sydney, or when the application is screened at the local office in preparation for the interview, or when an interviewer identifies a concern arising from either checking the documents or the way in which the applicant responds to questions, or attendant a GCMS check (which must be done each and every time an action is taken on the application) which identifies a reason for concern (from a FOSS note to a collateral flag, such as a reported employer with its own GCMS record due to fraud investigations in other cases).
Many of the things which could slow routine processing, and those things which can knock the application off the routine processing track, are more or less likely to be identified in the course of processing either a PR card application or the citizenship application. Thus, for example, for the PR who has recently had a PR card application successfully processed,
even if there was this or that thing which might have slowed the process, any concerns or questions regarding that should be resolved favourably, leading to the significant probability (but not necessarily) that it will not be revisited in the citizenship application processing. That is, having recently gone through the PR card application processing, that can (in effect) clear the path for the citizenship application to stay on a routine track with little or no delays. But this would not facilitate accelerating processing any faster than the routine track.
Papaella said:
What is interesting is that I applied for the PR renewal the same day as my brother for the renewal. The difference between our two cases is that his citizenship application is not upcoming while I had completed the number of days required for the citizenship and was going to apply soon. Everything else is equal. His process was much quicker; he received his new PR card a month before me. Also, my other family members applied 3 weeks after me and received their new PR card a week before me. So my process was longer than my family members who have very similar cases as mine, the only difference was that I had completed the days and was going to apply for the citizenship while they have still a year or 2 until they can apply.
From this experience, I could draw the conclusion that they spend more time processing the PR renewal of those who are going to apply soon; but this is only one case out of the 1000000's so this might not be necessarily true.
As you observe, given the overall number of PR card applications processed in a given year, extrapolating from a single case does not prove how things will go for others. (Noting though that the total number of PR card applications processed in any given year is more likely tens of thousands, at most, not millions.)
More significantly, comparing even a dozen individual applications will rarely illuminate general rules or policies. There are, simply, way too many individual factors which can influence how things go for any particular individual. For example, you say that
". . . the only difference was that I had completed the days and was going to apply for the citizenship while they have still a year or 2 until they can apply." It is more likely that the longer and more settled in Canada a PR is, the less likely it is there will be concerns or questions about that PR's status. Not the other way around. Aside from that, however, there are undoubtedly scores of additional differences: Are you all the same age and all have the same residential address history? same work history (employed for the same employer)? same immediate family members? same educational background? Obviously, given the difference in total days present in Canada, travel histories must vary considerably including being in different countries at different times. And so on. I would bet a lot that the information IRCC has of record for each of you varies considerably, your immigration histories alone varying significantly.
This does not explain why your PR card application took longer, but there are so many individual factors (including totally extraneous ones, independent factors like which IRCC official happens to be handling the application) it is impossible to guess why . . . there are some factors which we know will more likely lead to Secondary Review or otherwise cause delays, like
cutting-it-close relative to PR Residency Obligation compliance, but in the absence of a more or less obvious reason for causing a delay, it is impossible to guess why some applications take a month or three longer than others.
This forum is rife with over-generalizations. There is good reason for couching observations in probabilities with all sorts of caveats, and recognizing that oft times the same factor for one person can have a negative influence while for another person, in a different context, have a positive influence. For example, at times there has been a prevailing view that one cause for residency concerns is
frequent travel abroad, but a close look at anecdotal reports over a long period of time, especially when considered in conjunction with what is known from actual cases as officially reported in published decisions (both Federal Court citizenship cases and IAD PR RO cases), reveals that sometimes the PR with a history of more frequent travel has a stronger case than the PR with minimal travel abroad. But, at other times, yes indeed, frequent travel appears to be a factor leading to concerns and questions. Part (emphasis on
part) of the reason why is simple: it is more about the pattern of travel relative to a number of personal factors, than it is the total number of trips, which can be a strong indicator of ongoing, regular presence in Canada or, depending on the pattern, the contrary. That is, for one citizenship applicant, or one PR card applicant, the pattern of travel abroad may indicate an individual well-settled in Canada clearly traveling from and returning to a home in Canada, while for another a nonetheless similar pattern could suggest continuing employment or residential ties abroad. If one, for example, is a university professor, and the other is a mill worker, the impact of periodic absences, such as for two months or so at a time, could be very different for these two individuals.
Also note, for example, for some individuals the absence of reported travel abroad can raise questions (perhaps the most salient example would be an American citizen who reports never traveling to the U.S.), whereas for others (refugees especially) the absence of travel is more or less likely to be expected.
Where the individual has traveled can be a significant factor.
And so on.
This is not to say that the experiences reported by individuals is not illuminating or informative. It can be and often is informative and helpful. At the least it indicates what is possible, and when consistent with other reports it indicates a fair prospect about how things might actually go. Which in conjunction with other information and an understanding of the process, and taking context and individual factors into consideration, can indeed offer a broad idea and range of what will prospectively happen.
I recognize many, if not most, want far more definitive indicators about how their particular application will be processed. But there are simply way, way too many
if-this-then-that-but-possibly-this-other-thing elements, with widely varying possibilities at play.
OVERALL, however, timelines are way fast now compared to before, AND the majority of applicants do indeed sail smoothly through the process much faster than what IRCC indicates for even routine processing timelines.
For example, my time line was
one-third the amount of time IRCC was posting, at that time, for the routine processing timeline, and many of those who took the oath with me had even faster timelines. While I have not revisited Statistics Canada for awhile now, in previous years it was clear that the
median timeline (which means, close to but not quite the timeline for a majority), tended to be
half the timeline for how long it took to process 80% of
routine applications -- IRCC's reported timeline is the latter.
So the vast majority of you should have no reason to fret. And, to be frank, for anyone who has a reason to fret, it is highly likely they know it. So, for those with an application in process, or about to apply, so long as you have a margin and otherwise are qualified, and you properly and completely and accurately completed the application, the process should go smoothly and quickly, and sooner than you think you will be looking back on the anniversary of the day you became a citizen (tomorrow is the third anniversary of the day I took the oath -- and I do indeed celebrate this, with gusto).
