Can a child be a citizen born to Canadian visitor

[newtone]

Yes expats from developing countries working in gulf countries on work permit. Once their permit expires and employer refuses to renew then the fly back to their home country on a one way ticket. Being brought up in the comfort of the Middle East it would be a tragedy for a soon to be University going kid to adjust to harsh life of the third world.

 

[torontosm]

I am serious. I dont understand how you dont understand my point. I cannot be more blatant than this. Yes we do bear responsibility of the world, this is what makes us Canadians. Clearly (VBP) visitor baby poppin is not a priority for the government as a whole otherwise they would do something. And besides what is wrong with someone wanting to give their child a better future, for whatever reason they cannot qualify to come to Canada as a PR so they decide to have their baby here in order to give them a better future? Wouldn't you?

Canadians dont complain about other things like high rate of auto insurance, ridiculous real estate price, cost of transportation, cost of inflated commodities and services, overall cost of living, then why complain about visitors coming to give birth in Canada. Canadians can afford to absorb this cost too, otherwise the government would interfere? Dont you think so?

To be honest I think the average Canadians are very wealthy by any standards, and they never complain, when was the last time you saw a riot in Canada? (either because of increasing taxes, cost of living, cost of food, etc ) Cost of everything is increasing and Canadians will obediently pay it as they always have. If they dont like it they can settle in another country, its that simple and a lot of them are doing it.

I could not disagree more with everything you just said. As a Canadian, I am not responsible for anyone else. If I choose to be charitable, it is exactly that...my choice. I am not willing to assume responsibility for the world's population simply because I may be able to afford to do so.

This is definitely an issue that the government is aware of, and they have publicly stated they are examining amending the rules to close this loophole.

I don't blame the parents for trying, but at the same time, I also don't think its fair. And just because we opt for peaceful forms of civil disobedience, that doesn't mean that we blindly accept whatever the government tells us to do. All of the reforms we have seen as of late, including C-24, were done because the Canadian population wanted the system changed.

 

[newtone]

I could not disagree more with everything you just said. As a Canadian, I am not responsible for anyone else. If I choose to be charitable, it is exactly that...my choice. I am not willing to assume responsibility for the world's population simply because I may be able to afford to do so.

This is definitely an issue that the government is aware of, and they have publicly stated they are examining amending the rules to close this loophole.

I don't blame the parents for trying, but at the same time, I also don't think its fair. And just because we opt for peaceful forms of civil disobedience, that doesn't mean that we blindly accept whatever the government tells us to do. All of the reforms we have seen as of late, including C-24, were done because the Canadian population wanted the system changed.

The question is not about whether you choose to be charitable. A large portion of your pay cheque is already going to healthcare, security, insurance, services, refugee protection, criminal re-habilitation, keeping criminals alive and healthy in jails, prison maintenance etc. Only once you have extra money on hand after all your personal expenses only then can you give to charity. Canada as a nation is charitable, and taxpayers are paying through the roof and drowning in debt. This is the ugly face of socialism. But just like capitalism or communism its not perfect and there are challenges.

Secondly if you think this is peaceful civil disobedience than you are in fact blindly accepting whatever the government is telling you to do, because the government can raise taxes and cost of living when they see fit and the mass will follow. You can see it happen as we speak.

 

[torontosm]

A large portion of your pay cheque is going towards healthcare, security, insurance, services, refugee protection, criminal re-habilitation keeping criminals alive in jails, prison maintenance etc.

Yes, but all of these social services are the for benefit of Canadians and residents of Canada, not for everyone else in the world. So, in effect, those who contribute get to enjoy these services. This is contradictory to what you said earlier about how we should support everyone, regardless of whether they are Canadian or not.

because the government can raise taxes and cost of living when they see fit and the mass will follow. You can see it happen as we speak.

The government has nothing to do with setting the cost of living. This isn't the USSR.

 

[newtone]

Yes, but all of these social services are the for benefit of Canadians and residents of Canada, not for everyone else in the world. So, in effect, those who contribute get to enjoy these services. This is contradictory to what you said earlier about how we should support everyone, regardless of whether they are Canadian or not.

The government has nothing to do with setting the cost of living. This isn't the USSR.

We are supporting everyone, did you miss what I said about refugees?

The government has everything to do with the cost of living and more, if you have a house just dont pay your taxes, you'll know who really owns your house. Why pay hydro bills, recently they found out that the meters the government invested to put in your homes for heating exceed the budget by $1 billion dollars! How can you exceed a budget by $1 billion dollars? Why does the government not subsidize this? Lets talk about transportation, why not subsidize that? Lets talk about paying an arm and a leg for American cars made in Canadian factories and its cheaper in USA but more expensive in Canada. How do you explain that. This is socialist Russia my friend. The government is in control of everything and I mean everything period.
Cost of living is increasing, and the government needs to control that for the benefits of Canadians, high debt level and unemployment is not good for any economy.

 

[torontosm]

We are supporting everyone, did you miss what I said about refugees?

We only support qualified, genuine refugees who come to Canada. That is extremely different from supporting kids who happen to be born here while their parents are on "vacation"

The government has everything to do with the cost of living and more, if you have a house just dont pay your taxes, you'll know who really owns your house. Why pay hydro bills, recently they found out that the meters the government invested to put in your homes for heating exceed the budget by $1 billion dollars! How can you exceed a budget by $1 billion dollars? Why does the government not subsidize this? Lets talk about transportation, why not subsidize that? Lets talk about paying an arm and a leg for American cars made in Canadian factories and its cheaper in USA but more expensive in Canada. How do you explain that. This is socialist Russia my friend. The government is in control of everything and I mean everything period.
Cost of living is increasing, and the government needs to control that for the benefits of Canadians, high debt level and unemployment is not good for any economy.

you obviously don't understand how capitalism works. the government does not set the prices of the cars you buy, the clothes you wear, etc. If the retailers decide to charge more in Canada than the US, you can't blame the government for that. If anything, the recent inquiry launched by the government into this very practice is an attempt to reverse this trend and normalize pricing to the benefit of Canadian consumers.

As for Hydro, here is a list of utilities providers in Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_electric_utilities). Again, you can see that a number are private, and have nothing to do with the government.

finally, as for budget surpluses, those funds are being used to finance projects that will make our lives better. Do you actually expect the government to give that surplus to GM so that you can buy a cheaper car?

 

[newtone]

We only support qualified, genuine refugees who come to Canada. That is extremely different from supporting kids who happen to be born here while their parents are on "vacation"

So does America, Australia, France, Germany and most developed countries. If you are going by the books, good luck proving that. Realistically most are not


Do you understand capitalism?? Retailers charge more cause they have to pay to the government hefty taxes, tariffs and fees. This gets tricked down to the customers. The government can only issue a useless report and recommendation (again which costs money to the taxpayers) they choose not to change anything. So this is nice window dressing but not very convincing. Which means nothing to Canadians practically.

finally, as for budget surpluses, those funds are being used to finance projects that will make our lives better. Do you actually expect the government to give that surplus to GM so that you can buy a cheaper car?

What life and who's life? Do you have any figure or statistics that its making "life" better? How do you define life? Are there any metrics or any measurements?

So you must be one of the very few people happy paying atleast $5,000 more for a car, $200 more per month for auto insurance, $2 more for shaving cream, possibly $50 or more for a jacket, $20 or more for a pair of jeans, atleast $100 more for a plane ticket to fly within Canada. Can you see how your dollars add up? Wow! you must be super rich and willing to have government and corporations squeeze your nuts for more money. You are a valuable dollar figure to the Canadian government. Hats off to you sir


Anyway we are going off topic from the OP. My point is there are more important things domestically we need to fix and we need to worry about than some person coming to pop a baby. They way I look at it this poor baby will grow up to pay hefty Canadian taxes so this baby is really an investment for the government. I dont see how its a liability

 

[obib]

Newtone is correct I know a man in one of the developing Countries who was born in US and became a successful businessman and never paid/ remitted any Taxes to USA apart from what he paid in his country of residence and during his recent trip to US he was arrested because as a citizen of US(just like Canada) he was suppose to be remitting some Taxes to US even though he lives and makes his money in the developing nation.

 

[torontosm]

So does America, Australia, France, Germany and most developed countries. If you are going by the books, good luck proving that. Realistically most are not

How is this event relevant to the point? I said that there is vast difference between supporting genuine refugees and supporting people who happened to be born here while their parents were on vacation. You reply with something completely unrelated to the topic.

Retailers charge more cause they have to pay to the government hefty taxes, tariffs and fees.

Again, I ask you what these mysterious taxes, tariffs and fees are that you keep mentioning. To repeat, Canada has a lower corporate income tax than the US does. So what are you talking about? Stop repeating yourself and provide some actual facts if you can.

What life and who's life? Do you have any figure or statistics that its making "life" better? How do you define life? Are there any metrics or any measurements?

If you want to know what exactly the funds are being spent on, read the budget.

They way I look at it this poor baby will grow up to pay hefty Canadian taxes so this baby is really an investment for the government. I dont see how its a liability

the baby will not necessarily pay any Canadian taxes in his/her lifetime. But, he/she (and his/her offspring) will have access to the same healthcare, subsidized education, etc. that all of us that have "funded" the system do. This, in my opinion, is outrageously unfair and I am pushing hard to try and get it stopped.

 

[torontosm]

Newtone is correct I know a man in one of the developing Countries who was born in US and became a successful businessman and never paid/ remitted any Taxes to USA apart from what he paid in his country of residence and during his recent trip to US he was arrested because as a citizen of US(just like Canada) he was suppose to be remitting some Taxes to US even though he lives and makes his money in the developing nation.

That's because the US has a universal taxation system, while Canada doesn't. As such, this is irrelevant tot he discussion.

 

[newtone]

How is this event relevant to the point? I said that there is vast difference between supporting genuine refugees and supporting people who happened to be born here while their parents were on vacation. You reply with something completely unrelated to the topic.

That's what I am saying too, countries like America, Australia and Germany also have rules in place to support genuine refugees too but nowadays the line between someone who is genuine refugee and not a refugee is very thin and often times non-existent. Its becoming very hard to regulate this stuff.

Again, I ask you what these mysterious taxes, tariffs and fees are that you keep mentioning. To repeat, Canada has a lower corporate income tax than the US does. So what are you talking about? Stop repeating yourself and provide some actual facts if you can.

Taxes are not mysterious, if you have been filing taxes in Canada which I seriously hope you are doing every year. I would like to remind you not declaring your income or evading taxes is a serious crime. Here, even the government dosent have any written documents on import tariffs, they make up figures on the fly. One needs to call them and depending on what you are importing tariffs are charged.
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/menu-eng.html
I found out from another website (non-government ofcourse) that there are tariffs anywhere from 0% to 35% where the average is 8.56%
http://www.dutycalculator.com/country-guides/Import-duty-taxes-when-importing-into-Canada/

Here are other examples:
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/99-stupid-things-the-government-did-with-your-money-part-i/
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/99-stupid-things-the-government-did-with-your-money-part-ii/
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/99-stupid-things-the-government-did-with-your-money-part-iii/
http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/yourcommunity/2014/07/paper-bill-fees-ridiculous-cbcnewsca-readers-say.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/5-outrageous-fees-consumers-are-being-charged-1.2798008
http://www.cfib-fcei.ca/english/article/4831-ridiculous-red-tape-rules-release.html

If you want to know what exactly the funds are being spent on, read the budget.

This does not answer my question and neither does the budget

the baby will not necessarily pay any Canadian taxes in his/her lifetime. But, he/she (and his/her offspring) will have access to the same healthcare, subsidized education, etc. that all of us that have "funded" the system do. This, in my opinion, is outrageously unfair and I am pushing hard to try and get it stopped.

I am sorry but this is complete rubbish, lets think about what you just said “the baby will not necessarily pay any Canadian taxes in his/her lifetime”. Sorry to break the news to you but the baby needs to grow old at some point during his life, and as long as he is physically, breathing, walking, working inside Canada he is paying taxes. Canadians who live abroad are considered non-resident Canadians and unless they are paying taxes on foreign income in Canada they are not entitled to any benefits. Even so government rules are very strict. I know two families where the bread earner is working outside Canada and filing for taxes every year yet he is not entitled to use the free healthcare in Canada
Your opinion in my opinion is extremely unfair and I will push to stop any bill, will, dill, mill whatever it maybe, this is a free world and Canada is all for Globalization they need to understand that this is also part of Globalization. Any donkey can give a lovely speech on Globalization but as a nation there are certain global responsibilities too

 

[torontosm]

I am sorry but this is complete rubbish, lets think about what you just said “the baby will not necessarily pay any Canadian taxes in his/her lifetime”. Sorry to break the news to you but the baby needs to grow old at some point during his life, and as long as he is physically, breathing, walking, working inside Canada he is paying taxes. Canadians who live abroad are considered non-resident Canadians and unless they are paying taxes on foreign income in Canada they are not entitled to any benefits. Even so government rules are very strict. I know two families where the bread earner is working outside Canada and filing for taxes every year yet he is not entitled to use the free healthcare in Canada
Your opinion in my opinion is extremely unfair and I will push to stop any bill, will, dill, mill whatever it maybe, this is a free world and Canada is all for Globalization they need to understand that this is also part of Globalization. Any donkey can give a lovely speech on Globalization but as a nation there are certain global responsibilities too

You seem to be arguing for the sake of it, so this will be my last message on this topic. I specifically said that the baby (and his/her babies) will be eligible for free or subsidized education and healthcare. If the child is in school, he/she will obviously not be earning anything and will not be paying taxes (despite the fact that he/she is breathing, walking, etc.). So, he/she will get benefits without contributing anything.

Further, Canadians who live abroad do not have to pay taxes if they sever their ties to Canada, and yet these same Canadians are eligible for healthcare in many provinces from the day they return to Canada. so again, here's another example of how such a baby could qualify for benefits without contributing anything.

I could go on, but the point is your arguments are flawed.

Yes, it's a free world and I have the right as a Canadian to petition and influence policies as much as I can, and that is what I've been doing with my local MP and the immigration minister.

finally, I pay each and every cent of taxes that I owe every year, and have always done so. I really don't need someone like you to remind me of my legal or moral obligation to do so.

 

[torontosm]

Here are other examples:
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/99-stupid-things-the-government-did-with-your-money-part-i/
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/99-stupid-things-the-government-did-with-your-money-part-ii/
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/99-stupid-things-the-government-did-with-your-money-part-iii/
http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/yourcommunity/2014/07/paper-bill-fees-ridiculous-cbcnewsca-readers-say.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/5-outrageous-fees-consumers-are-being-charged-1.2798008
http://www.cfib-fcei.ca/english/article/4831-ridiculous-red-tape-rules-release.html

None of these links are relevant to your argument about the government deliberately inflating prices of private consumer goods in Canada. Try again.

 

[newtone]

They are absolutely relevant, perfect example of actions resulting in inflated prices of items and services, $143 to install a pencil sharper???. How do they justify these figures? Name one country in the planet that charges $143 to install a pencil sharper. This is outrageous even by NASA standards. I dont know what more proof you need. I am certain you are a government agent trolling this website, if not do you understand English??? You could use google translation to convert this to another language you know

As far as the kid is concerned I dont think you've understood what Ive said about kid physically being here and making Canada home. You are painting all visitors with the same brush.Its like saying all refugees are bad people, thats not just stereotyping but also discriminatory. Anyway its safe to say you have trouble understanding English and we'll leave it at that