12 days short of 730 days
- Thread starter square111
- Start date
I have no personal experience with this, but I have been following related issues and reports for several years.square111 said:
Overall: high odds this will seriously risk the loss of PR status unless:
-- the PR has in the meantime come into compliance with the PR Residency Obligation
OR
-- there are well documented, compelling H&C reasons why status should be retained
Thus, for example, if you are talking about a PR who applied for a new card when he or she was 12 days short of compliance with the RO, and travels abroad months later while the PR card application was still in process, but after the PR has come into compliance (due to additional days in Canada after applying), the PR card application may be denied, but the PR will retain PR status and would just have to make a new application for a PR card.
Observations --
Generally the application for a new PR card will be denied if the PR is not in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation as of the date the application is made. That said, where in the meantime, before a decision is made on the application, it is clear the PR has come into compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, there is the possibility a new PR card might be issued and delivered to the PR
There have been isolated reports suggesting this has happened where the PR card application was in process for many months and in the course of its examination and inquiries, CIC determined there was no reason to require duplication of work before issuing a new PR card -- it warrants cautioning that such reports are not verified and I believe that generally the policy and practice is to deny the application if the PR did not meet the RO at the time of applying. That is, in these situations the PR is ordinarily required to make a new application for a PR card.
While I cannot say I have seen actual reports, it would be a safe bet I believe that at the very best there will be no delivery of a new PR card without an in-person interview at the local CIC, at the least one done attendant actual delivery of the new PR card . . . that is, I believe there is near zero chance a PR will get a new PR card mailed to him or her in this situation.
Being short of compliance with the PR Residency Obligation at the time of applying for a new PR card will, at the least (ordinarily) trigger inquiries, potentially an investigation, and quite likely also result in a FOSS or GCMS flag in they system . . . thus, for a PR who goes abroad while such an application for a new PR card is pending, there is likely to be elevated screening either at the POE upon returning to Canada or in considering an application for a PR Travel Document abroad. And absent compelling H&C reasons, the outcome is predictable, as in a high risk that PR status will be lost.
Thank you.This doesn't look so bright.
A compelling reason to travel to the country of origin is a sick mother. Will CIC consider this? Also, will the CHC issue a Travel Document based on this compelling reason? Due to the travel, also applied under emergency processing, but have not heard from them yet, Application status on CIC website doesn't show anything either.
A normal headed person (in my opinion) would consider this in deciding the fate of PR status, but does CIC?
Also, I have heard that some years back, CIC would approve renewals in case of RO being short of a few days, but now they don't. Is that true?
A compelling reason to travel to the country of origin is a sick mother. Will CIC consider this? Also, will the CHC issue a Travel Document based on this compelling reason? Due to the travel, also applied under emergency processing, but have not heard from them yet, Application status on CIC website doesn't show anything either.
A normal headed person (in my opinion) would consider this in deciding the fate of PR status, but does CIC?
Also, I have heard that some years back, CIC would approve renewals in case of RO being short of a few days, but now they don't. Is that true?
Key is whether or not time in Canada now is bringing you into compliance.square111 said:
If you leave Canada while not in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, how it goes is not certain but the risk is high that you will be subject to losing your status.
Individual cases vary greatly.square111 said:
CIC does, indeed, explicitly consider H&C reasons. And while the general H&C considerations applicable to other immigration related decisions are very much a part of this (such as the hardship that might result from a forced return to home country), the H&C assessment done in deciding whether to, essentially, waive a breach of the PR Residency Obligation is broad and so far the operational manual indicates that anything which weighs in favour of the PR deserving to retain PR status should be considered.
BUT your situation is not merely about a compelling reason to travel now. You indicated that you made the PR card application when you were short of meeting the PR Residency Obligation. Thus, again, a key consideration is whether in the meantime you come into compliance with the PR RO. If not, even the most compelling reason to travel now does not justify the failure to comply with the RO already.
Nonetheless, again, what happens in individual cases is very case specific. It is near impossible to forecast how it will go for sure. There is a possibility CBSA will be lenient, perhaps even generous, upon your return. Similarly, CIC may be so if you apply for a PR Travel Document from abroad.
None of us can say for sure how it will go.
That there is a high risk of losing PR status, however, is apparent (again unless in the meantime you have come into compliance with the RO).
This is easier to predict. Not likely an application reflecting a breach of the PR RO will be given urgent processing. On the contrary, as previously indicated, such an application is far more likely to encounter delays beyond the ordinary routine processing timeline.square111 said:
Still, sure, every case is decided on its individual facts, so there is no absolute answer.
CIC will consider these things. What weight they will carry, however, particularly in comparison to the several years you had in which to have settled in Canada, is where things grow dim.square111 said:
I alluded to this in my previous post. There have indeed been some reports suggesting this has happened. None that I have ever seen done via urgent processing.square111 said:
The instructions explicitly state that to be eligible for a new PR card, the PR must be in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. My sense is that this is usually, perhaps almost always applied literally, and that an applicant who applies short of compliance will have the application denied . . . and if in the meantime the PR has come into compliance, the PR's recourse is to make a new application.
But there may be some exceptions to this. Very difficult to see CIC making an exception via urgent processing.
CIC does not overtly divulge its internal assessment parameters. In contrast, forum reporting by PRs with RO problems is sporadic, uneven at best, and even relative to the credible reports it must be remembered, again, that the individual case will swing one way or the other based on a wide, wide range of particular facts and circumstances.
In contrast, the trend at both CIC and CBSA appears clear: toward more scrutiny and stricter enforcement of the PR Residency Obligation.
A lot could depend on why you ended up short in the first place. That is one of the biggest elements at play in your situation. Among others is your recent history, the extent to which you are established in Canada, the extent of your current ties in Canada, and so on.
The factors are many. So no one here can say for sure what will happen in your particular situation. But the overriding aspect is RISK, the risk that if you leave Canada now and are not in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, you will lose PR status.
If you apply short of days your PR card will not be renewed. It will more than likely trigger an RQ which will take you out of the regular processing time. Once that is done if you leave the country you would have to apply for a PRTD (if you aren't visa exempt) and the odds they will give it to you when your residency is already in question are slim to none. You'll have to decide what is more important to you at this time. Either wait and renew your card when you have more than enough days, or do it the way you mentioned above and risk losing your PR status.square111 said:
Good luck.