Want to retire to Canada. In Canada continuously from 1972-1979 but US since.

[Metadoc]

During 7 complete years in Canada as a landed immigrant (from '72-'79), I understood that I had attained "domicile" after 5 continuous years...which I assume is called "permanent residency" nowadays.
I never received any cards other than a Canadian Social Security Card. There were no 'SIN' cards or 'PR' cards to carry around or renew at that time.
Years after I had come down to the US to pursue my medical career (always planning on returning to Canada for eventual retirement), I was told that 'after 6 mos out of the country' my residency status would have been 'revoked', and that I no longer had status.
All of the intervening years I had been left to believe that my status was permanently established...never having ever been given any information or notification (during my 7 yrs or subsequently) from the Can. gov't about any residency requirements necessary...any impending (or possible) status changes...any warnings or communications from Can. at all that would have spelled out any risk to my "domicile" status from going back to the US for my career.
I have no idea whether I truly still have a 'permanent residency status' up north...and I've just been given misinformation...or whether I now have to jump through all of the hoops again.

Anybody know whether, since my 7 years of consistent residence in Can. was well before the current system was initiated, I am still considered a permanent resident of Canada (and if not) what I can do about rectifying this situation?

 

[scylla]

Maintaining permanent residency requires you to physically live in Canada. You do not meet the residency requirement and have technically lost your PR status. (FYI - YOU are held responsible for knowing and understanding the rules with regards to your permanent residency status. No one hand-feeds them to you. So the "no one told me" excuse isn't going to fly.)

Having said that, you still have an opportunity to save your PR status because your PR status hasn't been officially revoked (although it won't be easy and there's no guarantee it will work). If you can re-enter Canada without being reported by immigration officials for failing to meet the PR residency requirement - you can then live in Canada for 2 years straight to meet the PR residency requirement (2 out of every 5 years). Once these two years have elapsed you can apply for a renewed PR card. You should expect to face some challenges during these 2 years. Primarily, I expect you won't qualify for provincial health care since you won't be able to provide a valid PR card. So you'll need to purchase private insurance to cover yourself for medical emergencies for 2 years - and will have to pay for non-emergency care (anything not covered by your insurance policy) out of your own pocket for this two year period.

There is also some chance that you may be reported by immigration officials for failing to meet the residency requirement when you try to reenter Canada. If this happens, you will have to appear at a hearing within 30 days to argue why you should be allowed to keep your PR status. If this happens to you - your PR status will be officially revoked (given how long it's been since you've lived in Canada you won't have a leg to stand on for trying to keep your status) and you will be told to leave Canada.

Your only alternative to trying to reenter Canada to save your PR status - is to apply for PR from scratch as a skilled worker or something similar (Canada has no retirement immigration class). The rules for immigrating have changed considerably since you applied and you should expect this will not be an easy path (quite likely impossible if you are close to retirement).

 

[Leon]

I am not familiar with immigration law back in the 70's but do you have any type of paperwork from immigration stating that you are a permanent resident? Until mid year 2002, immigration was issuing a document called "record of landing" IMM 1000 to all landed permanent resident and that is their proof. However, I do not know which year they started doing that. After mid year 2002, they issue another document called "confirmation of permanent residency".

Until 2002, the residency requirements were that you had to stay in Canada 6 months out of every 12. Since then, it's 2 years out of every 5. There's no excuse saying you didn't know the rules. It's up to you to inform yourself of the rules.

There is a loophole though like scylla says which is if you manage to enter Canada without being reported as being in breach of the RO (residency obligation) and you stay for 2 years, you will meet the RO again for the past 5 years and can apply for a PR card. However, if you do not have any paperwork from immigration, it may be difficult for you to prove that you were at some point a permanent resident in which case they might just say that you have been staying in Canada for 2 years illegally and give you a departure order if not a ban.

However, if you try to inquire into your status, whether you are a PR or not, you would probably trigger an investigation into revoking your PR because you don't meet the RO. So damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If you want to attempt to apply for PR again, as scylla said, there is no immigration class for retirees. You could either apply as a skilled worker which means today that you have to have a job offer and you have to pass their points system, some of which is based on age. Lets face it, at retirement age, you are not considered a great asset to the Canadian economy. Another option would be a snow bird. If you are visa exempt to Canada, you can spend up to 6 months a year. The rest in the US. A third option as one retired couple found out was for one of them to enter college on a study permit. They even found a college in BC geared towards retirees. Having studied in Canada, you might later find a way to stay on but it's getting harder with the new rules.

 

[Metadoc]

I thank both of you, Scylla and Leon, for replying to my query.
With regard to your questions, and to give some further info...I have the original document given to me when I 'landed' @ one of the border ports of Canada in '72. It is basically states that I was 'allowed forward under examination' (AFUE). I don't recall ever being given anything in particular in terms of adjunctive forms or info at the time of 'landing', or being told to follow up with any specific person, at any specific agency office, or at any place in particular at that time. The point system was new, I believe, at the time I landed...and I got my 50+ pts at the border to qualify for immigration and be allowed to continue on into the country.
I did eventually receive a plastic card with my "social insurance number" (which I still have), and obviously followed up with using it to get enrolled in provincial health care and whatever else was relevent to living a regular life for 7 complete years (spread over 3 provinces'

 

[Metadoc]

Sorry for the interruption, I'm a slow typist, and timed out somehow. To continue:

...(spread over 3 provinces and involving school @ 3 major Canadian universities) Other than these 2 items I have no specific immigration documentation, but the Immigration people can certainly access their own records, as well as my Canadian tax school and work records to verify my original 7 yrs in Canada. They probably also have records of my first return trip to Canada after going down to the states to bring up all of my possessions in '72, a train trip with my daughter from the US to Vancouver about 15 yrs ago, and 6 months (via ~3 separate trips) of living with my fiancée in Canada in 2012-13 (snowbirding in effect). I have always been honest with Canadian immigration about my past, and have mentioned on a couple of occasions to Canadian Immigration about having landed and lived in Canada years ago, but they have never commented on it. One time at the airport, during my recent snowbird phase, one of the officers disappeared to talk to a superior about my history, but came back after about 10-15 mins and allowed me entry. She never said boo about my "PR" status at that time. At any rate it shouldn't be hard to document when I have spent time in Canada, and document my previous status.
With regard to the "loophole" that both of you mentioned, to get 2 years of time under my belt before applying for a "renewed PR card", I would think that it would be better (and appear a lot less sneaky) to get it by the snowbirding method, since one can certainly easily accumulate 2 yrs worth of time within a 5 yr period for the same ultimate purpose.
A final point for me to point out is that I have a decent amount of permanent monthly retirement income from my Social Security, as well as a supplementary pension, and I have intention of continuing to work for a long time into the future...so I won't ever be a big drain on the Canadian system. And...as far as medical concerns go...I am, and will always be, well covered by Medicare in the US. Besides, I very rarely go to doctors, or take any medications, so I don't anticipate generating any great future stress on either the US, or potentially the Canadian, medical health system in any likelihood.
So as far as not being a great asset for the Canadian system, similarly I don't anticipate being a great problem for it either. A final comment...the 'school' route, that you mentioned Leon, was something that I hadn't thought of. After 13 yrs of higher education though, I don't think I'd be particularly happy to be back in that grind again !

"

 

[Leon]

So it sounds to me like your best options are either to snow bird until you have 2 years (730 days) in Canada in the past 5 and then while in Canada, apply for a renewal PR card.. or take the plunge and stay in Canada for 2 years straight and then apply.

If you do decide to stay for 2 years straight, you may have some hurdles with a couple of things as a PR living in Canada without a valid PR card. You may be covered by medicare but when trying to stay for 2 years straight it would be in your best interest to get Canadian health care. If you have an accident in Canada, you can not pop over to the US for care and I doubt that medicare would cover your Canadian medical bills. However, with only a landing document from the 70's, you may have problems getting health care in Canada.

Your SIN is most likely dormant after many years but that is not a big deal. You would have to visit Service Canada, prove your ID and ask them to re-activate it.

If you move to Canada, if you want to drive a car, you are expected to get a Canadian license in most provinces within 2-3 months of your arrival. Many provinces do not issue a DL to you unless you can prove you are in the country legally with a work or study permit or a valid PR card so that could be another problem for you. I think Ontario would issue you one though.

Snow birding may be a better idea but unless you are sure that medicare will cover your bills in Canada, you should have travel insurance. Sure you never go to the doctor but there is no human being in this world, young or old, who can guarantee that they will never have an accident or emergency medical problem so it would be wise of you to have travel insurance for when you are in Canada because otherwise if something happens, it will cost you.

 

[Metadoc]

Well, Leon, I just wrote a detailed response to your latest note to me...but when I pressed the button to 'post' it the site dropped me and my message. I have a hard time navigating this forum! When I finally got back to this spot I saw my intact message briefly (still present on site) but then it faded out and I can't find it to re-post it. I'll try to repost a close facsimile tomorrow...maybe it will reappear when I log-in the next time and save me the trouble!

 

[Metadoc]

I'm back.

With regard to Medicare, it does have some out of country coverage, possibly reimbursement for emergent stuff and maybe evac. I'll look into it. However, travel insurance should be available for other things..Good idea Leon. Even so (correct me if I'm wrong), I can always just pay the doctors et al for service and bypass the immediate need for Can. health care in a pinch right?
With regard to reactivating a dormant SIN, might it not trigger an investigation into my PR status and possibly lead to a revocation (assuming it already hasn't been revoked)?
With regard to car stuff, are you implying that I need to get a driver's license, and/or Can license plates...or just register somehow as a snowbird? In my previous snowbird episode, I got a proof of US car ins card to carry around with me, in case of accident or police stop. Would I be forced to go beyond that and also get a Can. car insurance policy also?
With regard to banking and phone service, on a 1 month trip to New Zealand in 2010,...on arrival, I just went into a local bank with my US ID stuff and opened an acct very easily with a monetary deposit, and set up a debit card...which made everything convenient while I backpacked and hosteled for the whole month. I also went to an electronics store and bought a basic phone with a sim chip and minutes for NZ use. I assume, as a snowbird, that I can similarly do the same stuff in Can...as well as renting temporary digs for the duration of my stay with just my US ID info.
At any rate, I'll probably do the slow snowbird route with regard to getting my 730 days (in just over 4 yrs time). I want to always be above board with what I'm doing, and this method would seem to not appear sneaky after my applic'n for a PR card, once I have accumulated the appropriate amount of in-country time in Can.

As before, any ideas and feedback is greatly appreciated...from anyone reading this thread!

Thanks in advance Leon!

 

[Leon]

I'm back.

With regard to Medicare, it does have some out of country coverage, possibly reimbursement for emergent stuff and maybe evac. I'll look into it. However, travel insurance should be available for other things..Good idea Leon. Even so (correct me if I'm wrong), I can always just pay the doctors et al for service and bypass the immediate need for Can. health care in a pinch right?
With regard to reactivating a dormant SIN, might it not trigger an investigation into my PR status and possibly lead to a revocation (assuming it already hasn't been revoked)?
With regard to car stuff, are you implying that I need to get a driver's license, and/or Can license plates...or just register somehow as a snowbird? In my previous snowbird episode, I got a proof of US car ins card to carry around with me, in case of accident or police stop. Would I be forced to go beyond that and also get a Can. car insurance policy also?
With regard to banking and phone service, on a 1 month trip to New Zealand in 2010,...on arrival, I just went into a local bank with my US ID stuff and opened an acct very easily with a monetary deposit, and set up a debit card...which made everything convenient while I backpacked and hosteled for the whole month. I also went to an electronics store and bought a basic phone with a sim chip and minutes for NZ use. I assume, as a snowbird, that I can similarly do the same stuff in Can...as well as renting temporary digs for the duration of my stay with just my US ID info.
At any rate, I'll probably do the slow snowbird route with regard to getting my 730 days (in just over 4 yrs time). I want to always be above board with what I'm doing, and this method would seem to not appear sneaky after my applic'n for a PR card, once I have accumulated the appropriate amount of in-country time in Can.

As before, any ideas and feedback is greatly appreciated...from anyone reading this thread!

Thanks in advance Leon!

Yes, you can pay the doctor out of pocket but if you end up in hospital seriously ill or with some broken bones, it will be expensive.

Reactivating a dormant SIN happens at Service Canada, not immigration. The two are not connected and so there will be no investigation. Privacy act may even forbid them from sharing your info. However, if you take the route of a snow bird, you don't need your SIN anyway so you can postpone it until you meet the RO.

As a snow bird, I have no idea how long you can drive a US car in Canada on a US license. It may depend on the province too. Ask whichever car registration authority you find in the province you will be staying in. It might actually not be a problem.

You can get a prepaid SIM without a problem. You can open a bank account without a SIN too if it's not interest bearing. Some landlords like doing a 1 year lease but there are places that rent to you for a shorter term so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Metadoc]

Thx for your response Leon!
So it would appear that the SIN card would only be relevant for working in Canada, taxation things, and possibly other things that would be currently irrelevant for me (eg getting a passport, applying for citizenship etc)...would this be a correct assumption?
This brings up one final question from me...working in Canada. Is it possible for a snowbird to work at all, without causing problems or complicating things too much? I would assume that paid work would be 'verboten' without a totally legitimized and updated PR status...but that unpaid volunteer work would probably be OK...correct?

Thanks again for any answers that you give me for these final queries...then I guess I'll stop being a "Curious George" and turn you loose!

 

[Leon]

Thx for your response Leon!
So it would appear that the SIN card would only be relevant for working in Canada, taxation things, and possibly other things that would be currently irrelevant for me (eg getting a passport, applying for citizenship etc)...would this be a correct assumption?
This brings up one final question from me...working in Canada. Is it possible for a snowbird to work at all, without causing problems or complicating things too much? I would assume that paid work would be 'verboten' without a totally legitimized and updated PR status...but that unpaid volunteer work would probably be OK...correct?

Thanks again for any answers that you give me for these final queries...then I guess I'll stop being a "Curious George" and turn you loose!

A snowbird who is only a US citizen, not Canadian or with Canadian PR would not have a SIN and would not be allowed to work.

If you want to work for payment, you would need to go to Service Canada and get your SIN reactivated. It's because of tax issues. If you don't have a SIN, an employer can not employ you and withhold your taxes.

I suppose you could do volunteer work if you want to though.