TRV rejected for friend - GCMS notes minimal - Reconsideration denied - Next?

[bananabrainz]

Baffled on how to proceed next to get friends TRV approved? She is student in Cusco, Peru and I extended invitation for her to come visit Canada in between school semesters. Carefully crafted application to ensure all details were provided to convince officer that she has support/funds/plans for her visit and return back home. Still got a generic refusal letter. Got the GCMS notes, and very generic and made mention of Chinook 3+ tool. Began to doubt that my Letter of Invitation was even reviewed and whether a human even bothered to look at the application. Application processed in Lima office.

Wrote a lengthy reconsideration request addressing all refusal points and was patiently waiting till the 15 day mark to check again. Upon checking via email, turns out the reconsideration was "noted" the DAY after my submission and "decision remains the same".

Have access to some internal IRCC documents which indicate processes that are to be followed and seems they were not in this particular case. Very disappointed and bothered by this whole experience. Debating if to pursue Judicial Review or Immigration Lawyer. Attempting to contact Peru Ambassador and MPs in parallel to expose the complete negligence and lack of transparency in the whole process.

Open to advice and suggestions.

 

[scylla]

Baffled on how to proceed next to get friends TRV approved? She is student in Cusco, Peru and I extended invitation for her to come visit Canada in between school semesters. Carefully crafted application to ensure all details were provided to convince officer that she has support/funds/plans for her visit and return back home. Still got a generic refusal letter. Got the GCMS notes, and very generic and made mention of Chinook 3+ tool. Began to doubt that my Letter of Invitation was even reviewed and whether a human even bothered to look at the application. Application processed in Lima office.

Wrote a lengthy reconsideration request addressing all refusal points and was patiently waiting till the 15 day mark to check again. Upon checking via email, turns out the reconsideration was "noted" the DAY after my submission and "decision remains the same".

Have access to some internal IRCC documents which indicate processes that are to be followed and seems they were not in this particular case. Very disappointed and bothered by this whole experience. Debating if to pursue Judicial Review or Immigration Lawyer. Attempting to contact Peru Ambassador and MPs in parallel to expose the complete negligence and lack of transparency in the whole process.

Open to advice and suggestions.

MP and Ambassador cannot change the decision. This won't get you anywhere.

Options are to either reapply or to go the JD route with the help of a Canadian immigration lawyer.

Generally speaking, the letter of invitation isn't really what is most important. What is most important is the applicant's profile including their ties to their home country / country of residency, previous travel to countries requiring visas, funds available to cover their stay in Canada, duration of stay in Canada, etc. (and the evidence provided to support all of this).

Good luck regardless what you decide to do.

 

[canuck78]

Given the volume of asylum seekers from Peru these days there will be concern about her intentions. What is your friend’s background? Has she travelled internationally before and to where? Travelling to places like the US, UK, etc. will be what really counts. Young people and students often have difficulty getting TRVs because they have very few ties to their home country or funds. How much personal savings could she show? Assume she doesn’t own property. There is often an assumption that friends providing invitation letters may also be in a romantic relationship. It would be very strange for you to spend 4-5k for JR for a friend to visit you in Canada unless you are a multimillionaire and 4-5k is no big deal to you. It will likely be assumed that your friend is deperste to come to Canada. If she is just coming for a visit why can’t you visit her or can the visit be delayed until she has graduated, is working and has better savings and ties to her home country.

 

[tommy_2k23]

My friend applied for TRV from Mexico in the mnth of May. 4 months passed by. No response so he wrote an email to local canadian consulate in Mexico on sept 5. On sep 6 he received a reponse that they could not tell him about processing timeline so he had to wait. Then on Sep 7 he received a refusal letter that he had not sufficent funds to furnish his 7 days trip to Toronto from Puerto Vallarta.

He travelled many countries in Europe including Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Spain, Danemark, Mexio, Singapore and Maylaysia.

Then he applied for GCMS notes , saem generic reason was mentioned, However, it was mentioned that his application was assessed by using Chinook+3.

he showed 128000 CAD in his personal account. I mean he was like shocked seems like his cover letter travel itinerary nothing was read by visa officer

He is a permanent resident in Mexico and will get Mexican passport by the end of next year he can travel canada visa free. However, it is not ethically right to assess a visa application by AI. If you are taking out 180 CAD ateast give 5 minutes of your job to have a look at documents.

 

[bananabrainz]

MP and Ambassador cannot change the decision. This won't get you anywhere.

Options are to either reapply or to go the JD route with the help of a Canadian immigration lawyer.

Generally speaking, the letter of invitation isn't really what is most important. What is most important is the applicant's profile including their ties to their home country / country of residency, previous travel to countries requiring visas, funds available to cover their stay in Canada, duration of stay in Canada, etc. (and the evidence provided to support all of this).

Good luck regardless what you decide to do.

Appreciate the response. What is really bugging me as I've been going thru this process is that if there are really clear and explicit criteria in place, why doesn't the IRCC publicly publish them?! Would really save the mental torture they are subjecting upon applicants and others involved in the process. Giving a false illusion that cases are assessed individually whereas it seems not to be the case. Would lessen their workload too since applications would be automatically limited.

 

[bananabrainz]

Given the volume of asylum seekers from Peru these days there will be concern about her intentions. What is your friend’s background? Has she travelled internationally before and to where? Travelling to places like the US, UK, etc. will be what really counts. Young people and students often have difficulty getting TRVs because they have very few ties to their home country or funds. How much personal savings could she show? Assume she doesn’t own property. There is often an assumption that friends providing invitation letters may also be in a romantic relationship. It would be very strange for you to spend 4-5k for JR for a friend to visit you in Canada unless you are a multimillionaire and 4-5k is no big deal to you. It will likely be assumed that your friend is deperste to come to Canada. If she is just coming for a visit why can’t you visit her or can the visit be delayed until she has graduated, is working and has better savings and ties to her home country.

Appreciate the response.
We met December last year. I visited her in June earlier this year and am planned to go again end of October. I think it's time a visit is due for her to come see Canada and I get a chance to host her. It seems the IRCC is solely bent upon seeing FINANCIAL ties. Very shallow. But if that is the sole criteria, why beat around the bush...let's be explicit and go one step further and mention how much ones salary should be in their home country to ensure "sufficient ties to their home country".

Not eager to shell out 4-5K for the JD especially if positive verdict will only send the case to another reviewing officer. Who knows, they might reject it too. Only benefit would be if it exposes some of these behind the scenes processes and highlights the dehumanizing decision-making on very sensitive and human related matters.

 

[scylla]

Appreciate the response.
We met December last year. I visited her in June earlier this year and am planned to go again end of October. I think it's time a visit is due for her to come see Canada and I get a chance to host her. It seems the IRCC is solely bent upon seeing FINANCIAL ties. Very shallow. But if that is the sole criteria, why beat around the bush...let's be explicit and go one step further and mention how much ones salary should be in their home country to ensure "sufficient ties to their home country".

Not eager to shell out 4-5K for the JD especially if positive verdict will only send the case to another reviewing officer. Who knows, they might reject it too. Only benefit would be if it exposes some of these behind the scenes processes and highlights the dehumanizing decision-making on very sensitive and human related matters.

It's not just purely financial ties. Other factors are considered. Family ties are often leveraged too and can really help. However family ties need to be immediate family (i.e. spouse / common law partner or children). I don't think she has either of those. Property ownership can be another good one. For financials, generally you want to show a strong bank balance to support your travels. A good salary can be beneficial too. There's no magic number as it relates to her salary. As said in my earlier post, another non-financial piece of evidence that strengthens an application is previous travel to countries requiring visas such as the US / UK / etc.

Generally speaking it's more difficult to be approved if you are young and single, and if you are coming to Canada to visit someone you are in a relationship with (or where IRCC suspects you are in a relationship with that person). This makes IRCC concerned the true purpose of the TRV is to come to Canada and then try to remain long term through getting married, etc.

 

[bananabrainz]

My friend applied for TRV from Mexico in the mnth of May. 4 months passed by. No response so he wrote an email to local canadian consulate in Mexico on sept 5. On sep 6 he received a reponse that they could not tell him about processing timeline so he had to wait. Then on Sep 7 he received a refusal letter that he had not sufficent funds to furnish his 7 days trip to Toronto from Puerto Vallarta.

He travelled many countries in Europe including Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Spain, Danemark, Mexio, Singapore and Maylaysia.

Then he applied for GCMS notes , saem generic reason was mentioned, However, it was mentioned that his application was assessed by using Chinook+3.

he showed 128000 CAD in his personal account. I mean he was like shocked seems like his cover letter travel itinerary nothing was read by visa officer

He is a permanent resident in Mexico and will get Mexican passport by the end of next year he can travel canada visa free. However, it is not ethically right to assess a visa application by AI. If you are taking out 180 CAD ateast give 5 minutes of your job to have a look at documents.

Appreciate the response.
Really seems there is not much accountability and oversight within the IRCC offices. Seems like a bit of a wild west with anyone doing anything they want with no consequences. Especially with the black box structure they've got going on. Anyways, glad your friend has another path of action and all the best!

 

[bananabrainz]

It's not just purely financial ties. Other factors are considered. Family ties are often leveraged too and can really help. However family ties need to be immediate family (i.e. spouse / common law partner or children). I don't think she has either of those. Property ownership can be another good one. For financials, generally you want to show a strong bank balance to support your travels. A good salary can be beneficial too. There's no magic number as it relates to her salary. As said in my earlier post, another non-financial piece of evidence that strengthens an application is previous travel to countries requiring visas such as the US / UK / etc.

Generally speaking it's more difficult to be approved if you are young and single, and if you are coming to Canada to visit someone you are in a relationship with (or where IRCC suspects you are in a relationship with that person). This makes IRCC concerned the true purpose of the TRV is to come to Canada and then try to remain long term through getting married, etc.

Nothing personal Scylla, but your response clearly highlights how these applications are reviewed by these officers. They probably don't bother to read all the content provided and hence just click thru the assessment made by the Chinook tool. The first line in my original post mentions she is a student so salary and financial metrics should not be relevant. I have shown sufficient financial statements and indicated I will be supporting her stay here. And being a student, most in developing countries live at home with their parents.
We traveled together in South America, Chile, Brazil, Peru, but not US/UK.
If one were to get married while on a TRV in Canada, I don't believe this gains anything in terms of permanency. The spousal visa path still needs to be pursued for a PR.
In summary, my takeaway from this experience is that IRCC officers are puppets and the Chinook tool is doing most of the leg-work based on internally set algorithms/criteria. And to get a decision reconsidered and flipped, an IRCC officer will have to stick their neck out in going against the Chinook tool verdict, and why would they if there is nothing in it for them. Simple human nature. I knew my application was marginal based on all the content I had read before applying, but had misplaced faith that the system had consideration for genuine cases.

 

[scylla]

Nothing personal Scylla, but your response clearly highlights how these applications are reviewed by these officers. They probably don't bother to read all the content provided and hence just click thru the assessment made by the Chinook tool. The first line in my original post mentions she is a student so salary and financial metrics should not be relevant. I have shown sufficient financial statements and indicated I will be supporting her stay here. And being a student, most in developing countries live at home with their parents.
We traveled together in South America, Chile, Brazil, Peru, but not US/UK.
If one were to get married while on a TRV in Canada, I don't believe this gains anything in terms of permanency. The spousal visa path still needs to be pursued for a PR.
In summary, my takeaway from this experience is that IRCC officers are puppets and the Chinook tool is doing most of the leg-work based on internally set algorithms/criteria. And to get a decision reconsidered and flipped, an IRCC officer will have to stick their neck out in going against the Chinook tool verdict, and why would they if there is nothing in it for them. Simple human nature. I knew my application was marginal based on all the content I had read before applying, but had misplaced faith that the system had consideration for genuine cases.

I'm not IRCC so I don't take any of this personally.

 

[canuck78]

Appreciate the response.
We met December last year. I visited her in June earlier this year and am planned to go again end of October. I think it's time a visit is due for her to come see Canada and I get a chance to host her. It seems the IRCC is solely bent upon seeing FINANCIAL ties. Very shallow. But if that is the sole criteria, why beat around the bush...let's be explicit and go one step further and mention how much ones salary should be in their home country to ensure "sufficient ties to their home country".

Not eager to shell out 4-5K for the JD especially if positive verdict will only send the case to another reviewing officer. Who knows, they might reject it too. Only benefit would be if it exposes some of these behind the scenes processes and highlights the dehumanizing decision-making on very sensitive and human related matters.

Had she indicated that you are in a relationship in the TRV application? Has the international travel happened recently? There has been a large uptick in asylum claims from Peru especially in the past year. In general your chances of getting a TRCv are weaker if you aren’t living in your home country. Getting a TRV is partially based on your ties to your home country so living in another country has a significant impact on a TRV application.

 

[canuck78]

Nothing personal Scylla, but your response clearly highlights how these applications are reviewed by these officers. They probably don't bother to read all the content provided and hence just click thru the assessment made by the Chinook tool. The first line in my original post mentions she is a student so salary and financial metrics should not be relevant. I have shown sufficient financial statements and indicated I will be supporting her stay here. And being a student, most in developing countries live at home with their parents.
We traveled together in South America, Chile, Brazil, Peru, but not US/UK.
If one were to get married while on a TRV in Canada, I don't believe this gains anything in terms of permanency. The spousal visa path still needs to be pursued for a PR.
In summary, my takeaway from this experience is that IRCC officers are puppets and the Chinook tool is doing most of the leg-work based on internally set algorithms/criteria. And to get a decision reconsidered and flipped, an IRCC officer will have to stick their neck out in going against the Chinook tool verdict, and why would they if there is nothing in it for them. Simple human nature. I knew my application was marginal based on all the content I had read before applying, but had misplaced faith that the system had consideration for genuine cases.

Actually getting to Canada provides a huge advantage. It is very difficult to get deported from Canada and there are multiple ways to try and remain and secure PR once in Canada. When it comes to visitors they always need to show that they have their own funds because there are breakdowns in relationships and people have gotten stuck in Canada without the means to get a hotel or return home. Had you indicated that you were in a relationship on your application? As already indicated it is often assumed that people are in relationships even if they aren’t upfront about the fact but there can be concerns that people intend to remain in Canada to date, to get married, to try and get a WP/SP, etc. When it comes to considering proof of previous international travel it does make a difference whether the counties you visited are way to enter or more difficult and whether they share immigration information with Canada. There is much less incentive to travel and remain in Brazil for example than the US or UK. Brazil allows basically anyone to enter but also barely provides any form of support if you try to remain in the country. Brazil is the main gateway country for people travelling up to the US through the Darien gap. Waiting until they have a Mexican passport will make things much easier.