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TRV after applying for family spousal sponsorship

Pooj1994

Newbie
Aug 30, 2021
1
0
I am reaching out after months and months of digging into what we should do in order to enter Canada to be with my husband. I reside in the UAE with my parents. I have been raised in the Middle East. My husband, a Canadian citizen lives in Canada. Our relationship started in 2020 when Canadian borders were closed to anybody outside. We got married June 2021 and then applied for a TRV but got rejected stating the following.

• The purpose of your visit to Canada is not consistent with a temporary stay given the details you have provided in your application.
• Your proposed length of stay in Canada is inconsistent with a temporary stay given the details you have provided in your application.

We have now applied for spousal sponsorship in November 2022 (outland). We want to apply for a TRV since the processing timelines are really long and we have been apart for over 3 years now.

Below are my questions:
1) PLEASE do help us with the documents you have provided them so that we can get our TRV approved the second time. Also, is it wise to receive the AOR before applying for TRV?
2) Should we state that I want to come into the country to visit my husband for our wedding anniversary which is in June? Or should we state that I want to be re united with my husband for the complete 6 month period and then return to my family in UAE?
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,970
12,772
You will no doubt get better answers here than I am able to give, but I'll share what little I know, plus our experience.

I am guessing you met online and he visited you in UAE in 2021 and you got married. However, I find that bit of guesswork difficult to reconcile with your statement "we have been apart for over 3 years now." In fact, that statement does not really square with "Our relationship started in 2020...". How can you fairly be said to have been apart for 3 years when you had no relationship prior to 2020? Although, if the relationship started in January 2020, given that January 2023 is just around the corner, then you are closing in on 3 years. Maybe that explains some. But, if that's there case, and if really apart for nigh on 3 years, your June 2021 marriage must have been online, which will preclude spousal sponsorship.

But leaving aside my nit-picking over what I see as certain non sequiturs in the story so far (just ask @armoured about my penchant for nit-pickery :)) let's turn to your questions.

(1) Help with documents. Not sure anyone can offer much there. These are not really documents cases. If you have spent any time reading on this forum about what's needed for a successful TRV application, you know you will want to show past travel to countries such as US, UK, Aust., NZ, etc. Then show strong ties to your home country, such as a good job to which to return, home ownership, family depending on your presence, etc. Also show decent bank balance and that the money in the bank came from a regular, reliable source (eg., salary). The only documents of importance are ones proving those items. But, you maybe have your ducks in a row under those heads, since the denial letter you received says nothing about any concern pointing to lack of funds, travel history etc. The underpinning of the refusal might lie elsewhere, addressed below.

(1a) Your first question is really 2 questions (nit-picking again, sorry).
The second part of your first question asks if is it wise to receive AOR before applying for TRV. Again, if you have done much reading here, you will have read that once an outland spousal application is in the works, the chances of TRV approval go down. The IRCC will assume you are coming to stay and to apply inland. But, the most common view I have seen is that, if you decide to apply, you will have a moderately better chance if you wait to get AOR first.

(2) Here, you ask “Should we state that I want to come into the country to visit my husband for our wedding anniversary which is in June? Or should we state that I want to be re united with my husband for the complete 6 month period and then return to my family in UAE?”

That suggests to me that you intend to ask for a TRV for 6 months. Again, stock advice here will be that asking for that much time will be fatal to your application. If really a tourist, you should be asking for more like 3-4 weeks, not months.

Your wording also suggests to me that you may have already weakened any new application by having failed the first time, if indeed you asked for 6 months on that occasion. I am guessing that might be the case, given the reasons given in your refusal letter. You were told, in effect, that you were not seen as a legitimate tourist applicant. The VO referred to “details” you provided which detracted from the strength of your application. It was maybe seen you wanted to be here to be with husband. The problem with a fresh application now, I would think, would be that you would now be viewed as seeking to back peddle and, in effect, take back some of what you revealed first time around. An effort to rehabilitate a doomed application.

I should confess here that I am among the least qualified here to speak to this matter. Although, if you want advice on how to mount a bound-to-fail application, then yes, I can offer much. I met my (now) wife in the Philippines in 2019. Applied for a TRV for her early 2020, just before Covid. Denied almost the day it went in. Super speedy processing. I guess it was so devoid of merit it was not even necessary to open the file to issue the deny letter. I returned to the Phils as soon as it re-opened in Feb/22 after being closed for 2 years. Applied from here (Phils) in March, before we were married here in April. Denied in July.

We put in our spousal application last month. Part of it involved getting UAE police certificate (among others) for my wife, since she worked in UAE for 3 years (2009-2012). She had no UAE ID and could not apply online. The process of going through the UAE Embassy in Manila was hopeless. So, we travelled from Philippines to UAE last month to get the damn PCC so we could finally put in her PR application. We were there for a week and probably spent CAD5,000 for the trip, but we accomplished the mission.

Will we be foolhardy enough to apply for a TRV again, with her application pending? Maybe. We probably would not do it without AOR in hand. But, I'll bet the IRCC has our denial letter all ready to go. And, given 2 failed attempts, I expect they do all they can to deny her PR application. I am expecting it to take maybe 3 years, with a 50/50 chance of ultimate success. I am sure they'll start by not looking at the file for another year or so, then finding some minor flaw, allowing them to return it, requiring us to start over. So yes, we expect years of wrangling.

As an aside, I am surprised Canada requires UAE citizens (maybe you are not) to apply for TRV. My recent trip was my first (and hopefully my last) there. Everyone appeared to have no shortage of money. I would not expect Canada to ask rich people to apply for TRV.
Being visa free doesn’t have to do with purely money and not everyone has wealth. It has to do with mainly to do partnerships between countries and the pull factor for people to overstay their visas or use them inappropriately.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,970
12,772
I am reaching out after months and months of digging into what we should do in order to enter Canada to be with my husband. I reside in the UAE with my parents. I have been raised in the Middle East. My husband, a Canadian citizen lives in Canada. Our relationship started in 2020 when Canadian borders were closed to anybody outside. We got married June 2021 and then applied for a TRV but got rejected stating the following.

• The purpose of your visit to Canada is not consistent with a temporary stay given the details you have provided in your application.
• Your proposed length of stay in Canada is inconsistent with a temporary stay given the details you have provided in your application.

We have now applied for spousal sponsorship in November 2022 (outland). We want to apply for a TRV since the processing timelines are really long and we have been apart for over 3 years now.

Below are my questions:
1) PLEASE do help us with the documents you have provided them so that we can get our TRV approved the second time. Also, is it wise to receive the AOR before applying for TRV?
2) Should we state that I want to come into the country to visit my husband for our wedding anniversary which is in June? Or should we state that I want to be re united with my husband for the complete 6 month period and then return to my family in UAE?
It is a shame you waited so long to apply for sponsorship. How many in person visits have you had and for how long? Are you currently employed? All these things will factor into whether you have a good chance of receiving a TRV. It looks like you are attempting to move to Canada which isn’t the appropriate use of aTRV which is one of the issues.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,402
7,844
As an aside, I am surprised Canada requires UAE citizens (maybe you are not) to apply for TRV. My recent trip was my first (and hopefully my last) there. Everyone appeared to have no shortage of money. I would not expect Canada to ask rich people to apply for TRV.
There's an easy answer to this: Canada does not require TRVs of UAE citizens, UAE is on the visa waiver list.

Of course, that only applies to UAE passport holders, which is probably no more than 15% of the population. Yep, ~85% of the population are foreign passport holders/foreign workers mostly.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,402
7,844
I do not profess to know how Canada decides to allow visa-free status. I believe part of the mix is reciprocity. If you don't require our citizens to obtain visas, then we'll do same for your citizens.
If it's part of the mix (and it probably is), it is a very small part of the mix.* Canada has a reputation for being annoyingly picky about its criteria for this, which is not public - but a big part / the biggest part is basically how many people overstay and/or are likely to overstay. It drives a few countries rather batty that Canada won't just 'cut a deal' based on reciprocity.

The * to this above is that there are some relationships where the weight brought to bear has got Canada to, ummm, reciprocate (some might say 'fold'). Mainly this is the EU (esp re Schengen members), when the occasional issue has come up (Czechia Romania Bulgaria aat various times).

That said - that's mainly about tourist visas. The areas where reciprocity comes up a lot more are various student work visa 'working holiday' visa programs, etc. (Which, note, is more about rich countries, too).

All I will say is that, at a casual glance, anyway, it appears that few, if any, poor countries are accorded visa-free status in Canada. That's where what you call the "pull factor" comes in. More likely someone from a poor country will overstay in a rich country than the other way around. So, while it may not be "purely money" that drives the decision-making, I would guess relative wealth of the country being considered is the #1 factor.
Yes, it's mostly rich countries, and mostly because 'rich country' largely correlates with less likelihood of systemic misuse/abuse of visitor visas (for reasons you explain well - both push and pull). It's also - bluntly - because with rich countries, there is more tourist and other related revenue for Canadian enterprises (in the broader sense, here to include ... anything that generates tax revenue, direct or indirect). Which is to say, a poor country with very low visa overstays just ain't gonna get much attention to make that visa waiver happen quickly (it might happen, but later).

That said: there are other rich countries, Gulf ones for example, that don't figure on that list.
 
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Olegikom

Star Member
Dec 19, 2019
89
12
If it's part of the mix (and it probably is), it is a very small part of the mix.* Canada has a reputation for being annoyingly picky about its criteria for this, which is not public - but a big part / the biggest part is basically how many people overstay and/or are likely to overstay. It drives a few countries rather batty that Canada won't just 'cut a deal' based on reciprocity.

The * to this above is that there are some relationships where the weight brought to bear has got Canada to, ummm, reciprocate (some might say 'fold'). Mainly this is the EU (esp re Schengen members), when the occasional issue has come up (Czechia Romania Bulgaria aat various times).

That said - that's mainly about tourist visas. The areas where reciprocity comes up a lot more are various student work visa 'working holiday' visa programs, etc. (Which, note, is more about rich countries, too).



Yes, it's mostly rich countries, and mostly because 'rich country' largely correlates with less likelihood of systemic misuse/abuse of visitor visas (for reasons you explain well - both push and pull). It's also - bluntly - because with rich countries, there is more tourist and other related revenue for Canadian enterprises (in the broader sense, here to include ... anything that generates tax revenue, direct or indirect). Which is to say, a poor country with very low visa overstays just ain't gonna get much attention to make that visa waiver happen quickly (it might happen, but later).

That said: there are other rich countries, Gulf ones for example, that don't figure on that list.
Processing

Review for decision


Your application will undergo a detailed review by an officer. The officer will consider all the information and documentation you have provided, and will decide if an interview is necessary. If so, you will be informed of the interview date, time and place.

If your application is refused, it will be returned to you with an explanation of why your it was refused.

Note: If we suspect that fraudulent documents were submitted, they will not be returned.
Remaining in Canada

You have to make sure that you have legal status to remain in Canada. You should apply to maintain your legal status in Canada while your application for permanent residence is in process. You have legal status for the period of time indicated on your temporary resident permit. Use the application kit Application to Change Conditions, Extend my Stay or Remain in Canada as a Visitor or a Temporary Resident Permit Holder (IMM 5708) (PDF, 477.39KB).

Note: If you leave Canada while your application is being processed, we cannot guarantee that you will be allowed to re-enter.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,877
20,511
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Processing

Review for decision


Your application will undergo a detailed review by an officer. The officer will consider all the information and documentation you have provided, and will decide if an interview is necessary. If so, you will be informed of the interview date, time and place.

If your application is refused, it will be returned to you with an explanation of why your it was refused.

Note: If we suspect that fraudulent documents were submitted, they will not be returned.
Remaining in Canada

You have to make sure that you have legal status to remain in Canada. You should apply to maintain your legal status in Canada while your application for permanent residence is in process. You have legal status for the period of time indicated on your temporary resident permit. Use the application kit Application to Change Conditions, Extend my Stay or Remain in Canada as a Visitor or a Temporary Resident Permit Holder (IMM 5708) (PDF, 477.39KB).

Note: If you leave Canada while your application is being processed, we cannot guarantee that you will be allowed to re-enter.
Do you have a question?
 

InfoSeeker12

Champion Member
Aug 28, 2012
1,382
338
Canada
LANDED..........
Sep 2013
Firstly, hats off to all the members here who shared there collective experience. This is so much valuable - to so many of us. Even immigration consultants dont provide info in this detail. Thank you for giving your time and honest feedback to us which helps us in the process.

I'm about to get into the same boat as the person who asked the question on top of this page. I'm Canadian citizen - my whole family is. Im about to get married outside Canada. The girl has not travelled anywhere yet. I knew spouse visa processing time is around 24 months. So im planning to keep visiting her and spending few months there - as my current job is work from home. But since my mother is not in a condition (age + health) that she can take the long flight, she will not be able to make the trip. Only few of my siblings will join me. I really wanted my future wife to spend sometime, get to know my parents as well.

That's why i wanted to apply TRV + Spouse Visa together, right after marriage (online and outland...ofcourse).

From your collective experience here - you think they will simply reject TRV application?
And that will impact our Spouse Visa application as well?
Any guidance or direction - greatly appreciated.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,877
20,511
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Firstly, hats off to all the members here who shared there collective experience. This is so much valuable - to so many of us. Even immigration consultants dont provide info in this detail. Thank you for giving your time and honest feedback to us which helps us in the process.

I'm about to get into the same boat as the person who asked the question on top of this page. I'm Canadian citizen - my whole family is. Im about to get married outside Canada. The girl has not travelled anywhere yet. I knew spouse visa processing time is around 24 months. So im planning to keep visiting her and spending few months there - as my current job is work from home. But since my mother is not in a condition (age + health) that she can take the long flight, she will not be able to make the trip. Only few of my siblings will join me. I really wanted my future wife to spend sometime, get to know my parents as well.

That's why i wanted to apply TRV + Spouse Visa together, right after marriage (online and outland...ofcourse).

From your collective experience here - you think they will simply reject TRV application?
And that will impact our Spouse Visa application as well?
Any guidance or direction - greatly appreciated.
Depends on her full profile. Is she employed? Does she own property? Can she show decent savings? Does she have other ties to her home country she can show?
 

InfoSeeker12

Champion Member
Aug 28, 2012
1,382
338
Canada
LANDED..........
Sep 2013
Depends on her full profile. Is she employed? Does she own property? Can she show decent savings? Does she have other ties to her home country she can show?
Does not own a property, as she lives with her parents. Does not have her own savings - works as a Teacher. But intending to resign before our marriage. As we will be travelling to different places - may be for 2 months. And her college will not give that much off time.
I guess we should rethink that decision - atleast till she gets the visa?
 

skippyk39

Full Member
Apr 18, 2022
21
9
You will no doubt get better answers here than I am able to give, but I'll share what little I know, plus our experience.

I am guessing you met online and he visited you in UAE in 2021 and you got married. However, I find that bit of guesswork difficult to reconcile with your statement "we have been apart for over 3 years now." In fact, that statement does not really square with "Our relationship started in 2020...". How can you fairly be said to have been apart for 3 years when you had no relationship prior to 2020? Although, if the relationship started in January 2020, given that January 2023 is just around the corner, then you are closing in on 3 years. Maybe that explains some. But, if that's there case, and if really apart for nigh on 3 years, your June 2021 marriage must have been online, which will preclude spousal sponsorship.

But leaving aside my nit-picking over what I see as certain non sequiturs in the story so far (just ask @armoured about my penchant for nit-pickery :)) let's turn to your questions.

(1) Help with documents. Not sure anyone can offer much there. These are not really documents cases. If you have spent any time reading on this forum about what's needed for a successful TRV application, you know you will want to show past travel to countries such as US, UK, Aust., NZ, etc. Then show strong ties to your home country, such as a good job to which to return, home ownership, family depending on your presence, etc. Also show decent bank balance and that the money in the bank came from a regular, reliable source (eg., salary). The only documents of importance are ones proving those items. But, you maybe have your ducks in a row under those heads, since the denial letter you received says nothing about any concern pointing to lack of funds, travel history etc. The underpinning of the refusal might lie elsewhere, addressed below.

(1a) Your first question is really 2 questions (nit-picking again, sorry).
The second part of your first question asks if is it wise to receive AOR before applying for TRV. Again, if you have done much reading here, you will have read that once an outland spousal application is in the works, the chances of TRV approval go down. The IRCC will assume you are coming to stay and to apply inland. But, the most common view I have seen is that, if you decide to apply, you will have a moderately better chance if you wait to get AOR first.

(2) Here, you ask “Should we state that I want to come into the country to visit my husband for our wedding anniversary which is in June? Or should we state that I want to be re united with my husband for the complete 6 month period and then return to my family in UAE?”

That suggests to me that you intend to ask for a TRV for 6 months. Again, stock advice here will be that asking for that much time will be fatal to your application. If really a tourist, you should be asking for more like 3-4 weeks, not months.

Your wording also suggests to me that you may have already weakened any new application by having failed the first time, if indeed you asked for 6 months on that occasion. I am guessing that might be the case, given the reasons given in your refusal letter. You were told, in effect, that you were not seen as a legitimate tourist applicant. The VO referred to “details” you provided which detracted from the strength of your application. It was maybe seen you wanted to be here to be with husband. The problem with a fresh application now, I would think, would be that you would now be viewed as seeking to back peddle and, in effect, take back some of what you revealed first time around. An effort to rehabilitate a doomed application.

I should confess here that I am among the least qualified here to speak to this matter. Although, if you want advice on how to mount a bound-to-fail application, then yes, I can offer much. I met my (now) wife in the Philippines in 2019. Applied for a TRV for her early 2020, just before Covid. Denied almost the day it went in. Super speedy processing. I guess it was so devoid of merit it was not even necessary to open the file to issue the deny letter. I returned to the Phils as soon as it re-opened in Feb/22 after being closed for 2 years. Applied from here (Phils) in March, before we were married here in April. Denied in July.

We put in our spousal application last month. Part of it involved getting UAE police certificate (among others) for my wife, since she worked in UAE for 3 years (2009-2012). She had no UAE ID and could not apply online. The process of going through the UAE Embassy in Manila was hopeless. So, we travelled from Philippines to UAE last month to get the damn PCC so we could finally put in her PR application. We were there for a week and probably spent CAD5,000 for the trip, but we accomplished the mission.

Will we be foolhardy enough to apply for a TRV again, with her application pending? Maybe. We probably would not do it without AOR in hand. But, I'll bet the IRCC has our denial letter all ready to go. And, given 2 failed attempts, I expect they do all they can to deny her PR application. I am expecting it to take maybe 3 years, with a 50/50 chance of ultimate success. I am sure they'll start by not looking at the file for another year or so, then finding some minor flaw, allowing them to return it, requiring us to start over. So yes, we expect years of wrangling.

As an aside, I am surprised Canada requires UAE citizens (maybe you are not) to apply for TRV. My recent trip was my first (and hopefully my last) there. Everyone appeared to have no shortage of money. I would not expect Canada to ask rich people to apply for TRV.
Your journey is incredibly similar to what my wife and I are going through.

I met her (a Filipina as well) at the end of 2019 as COVID was taking off. I visited her in Dubai at the end of 2022 as she lived there for 14 years. She returned to the Philippines January 2021 and I traveled there in February 2022 once they opened. We got married in March of 2022 and applied for her visa once I returned to Canada. Thankfully I had no issues getting the police clearance like you had unfortunately.

I don't have much to add to the discussion, it was just amazing to know that there is someone else who is going through the exact same thing. I wish you and your wife the best of luck and hope that you can get through this process as quick as possible.