Tricky situation, Experts' guidance will be much appreciated

[Screenager]

In our case, Sponsor is a Canadian Citizen living in Pakistan.
PA and Sponsor have been married 6 years and have a child together (also a Canadian Citizen).

We were just researching cases where sponsor lived exclusively outside Canada and was a homemaker and we came accross this refusal below. Now we are worried whether what we sent was enough and what more to do to strengthen our case in terms of proving intent to live in Canada once PA's application is approved. Please take out some time to read what the immigration officer said below in this refusal case from 2012. After this we have listed what we submitted.

I was sponsored by my wife and we filed our case in Dec 2010. Today I got refusal letter from CHC-ISB that our case is refused. We both live in Pakistan and I had submitted concrete evidence that I would be selling my business and move to Canada once my case is approved. Along with that I had submitted my company documents, banks statements, evaluations of the land i own, support letter from my sister who lives in Canada, supporting letters from my family my in-laws in favor of our plans of relocating to Canada. My wife has never worked and now that we have a baby it's not possible for her to leave me behind and go to Canada and live/work there and file for me from Canada.

The funny thing is, last week I received re-medical forms from CHC-ISB but they had pasted my wife's photograph on the form by mistake. I returned them the medical form and asked for a revised one but I was shocked to open this letter today with a refusal.


- How do I file the notice of appeal? I asked a lawyers online and he replied I need to sign and scan it and send it to him but I did not receive any form to fill.

-Do i really need to hire a lawyer at this stage or do/should I hire at a later stage? (they are really expensive - do I have options???)

- Someone told me it could take 18 months for the hearing. Is that true??

- How soon will the hearing take place? Since we both are not in Canada how will it work out? Over phone ?


Below is what was on the refusal letter. I was not able to understand what I have highlighted in bold since its law terminology difficult to interpret. I would appreciate if some expert sheds some light on the below as well as the queries. Thanks


" I have completed the assessment of your application. After careful and thorough consideration of all aspects of your application and the supporting information and documents provided, I have determined that you do not meet the requirements for a permanent resident visa.

Subsection 12(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA) states that a foreign national may be selected as a member of the family class on the basis of their relationship as the spouse, common-law partner, child, parent or other prescribed family member of a Canadian citizen or permanent resident.
Section 120 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations (IRPR) states that for the purposes of Part 5 of the Regulations,
(a) a permanent resident visa shall not be issued to a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class or to their accompanying family members unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect, and
(b)-a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class and their accompanying family members shall not become permanent residents unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect and the sponsor who gave that undertaking still meets the requirements of section 133 and, if applicable, section 137.
Subsection 133(1)(a) of the Regulations states (in part) that a sponsorship application shall only be approved by an officer if, on the day on which the application was filed and from that day until the day a decision is made with respect to the application, there is evidence that the sponsor is a sponsor as described in section 130.
Subsection 130(2) states that, a sponsor who is a Canadian Citizen and does not reside in Canada may sponsor an application referred to in the subsection (1) by their spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner or dependent child who has no dependent children if the sponsor will reside in Canada when the applicant becomes a permanent resident.

Your sponsor, who is a Canadian citizen, currently does not reside in Canada and I am not satisfied, based on the information provided on your application and your response that she will reside in Canada should you be granted permanent residency. Your sponsor does not, therefore, meet the requirements of subsection 130(2) of the Regulations and as a result, you do not meet the requirements of section 120 of the IRPR.
Section 41(a) of the IRPA states that a person is inadmissible for failing to comply with this Act in the case of a foreign national, through an act or omission which contravenes, directly or indirectly, a provision of this Act; and
Subsection 11(1) of the Act provides that a foreign national must, before entering Canada, apply to an officer for a visa or any other document required by the regulations. The visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. Subsection 2(1) specifies that unless otherwise indicated, references in the Act to "this Act" include regulations made under it. For the reasons set out above, I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of the Act. I am therefore refusing your application.

Here's what we submitted:

1. A concrete plan of establishing life in Canada, living off savings till we find jobs, willingness to upgrade ourselves
2. Our choice of City, the three short listed areas within that city (and reasons for choosing this specific city)
3. Sponsor opened a Newcomers bank account with a big5 bank in Canada from Pakistan (its a deposit only account till sponsor appears in person at a branch and activates it). We depsoited XXthousand dollars in it to demonstrate sponsor's commitment to establishing life in Canada.
4. Notarized Letter from Sponsor's sister offering us to stay at their place for the crucial settling in period till we find a place to rent
5. Various screenshots of researches: Temporary Health insurance, Housing, Jobs, intended industry for jobs, university programs to upgrade ourselves, public transport, drivers lisence process, schools for our son, settlement agencies for newcomers, emails from specialised clinics for followups etc.
6. Detail of our family's savings and investments that will be used to establish ourselves in Canada
7. Emails from PA's friends in Canada knowing our intention to relocate and emails from Sponsor's aunt in Canada and her mom in Pakistan
8. Notarized letters from Sponsor's brother, uncle, mom and dad and PA's mother knowing of our plans to relocate (all in Pakistan)
9. PA recently sold a property investment, we submitted a copy of the sale agreement to demonstrate we our consolidating funds for Canada
10. Also told about another such property investment of the PA and that it will also be sold before we come.
11. Quotes from shipping companies for moving 100kg of belongings from current country to Canada

In light of the refusal case that I have quoted above, are these proofs that we submitted feel enough? (we are from Pakistan, A non-visa exempt country)
What else concrete evidence can we provide so that we don't end up like the unfortunate couple in the case quoted above?
Sponsor is a homemaker, has not lived in Canada for over 8 years. There is no NOA or Option C. Has no income and is financially dependant on PA. (As a family we have enough savings and investments)

 

[Miraclejj]

In our case, Sponsor is a Canadian Citizen living in Pakistan.
PA and Sponsor have been married 6 years and have a child together (also a Canadian Citizen).

We were just researching cases where sponsor lived exclusively outside Canada and was a homemaker and we came accross this refusal below. Now we are worried whether what we sent was enough and what more to do to strengthen our case in terms of proving intent to live in Canada once PA's application is approved. Please take out some time to read what the immigration officer said below in this refusal case from 2012. After this we have listed what we submitted.

Here's what we submitted:

1. A concrete plan of establishing life in Canada, living off savings till we find jobs, willingness to upgrade ourselves
2. Our choice of City, the three short listed areas within that city (and reasons for choosing this specific city)
3. Sponsor opened a Newcomers bank account with a big5 bank in Canada from Pakistan (its a deposit only account till sponsor appears in person at a branch and activates it). We depsoited XXthousand dollars in it to demonstrate sponsor's commitment to establishing life in Canada.
4. Notarized Letter from Sponsor's sister offering us to stay at their place for the crucial settling in period till we find a place to rent
5. Various screenshots of researches: Temporary Health insurance, Housing, Jobs, intended industry for jobs, university programs to upgrade ourselves, public transport, drivers lisence process, schools for our son, settlement agencies for newcomers, emails from specialised clinics for followups etc.
6. Detail of our family's savings and investments that will be used to establish ourselves in Canada
7. Emails from PA's friends in Canada knowing our intention to relocate and emails from Sponsor's aunt in Canada and her mom in Pakistan
8. Notarized letters from Sponsor's brother, uncle, mom and dad and PA's mother knowing of our plans to relocate (all in Pakistan)
9. PA recently sold a property investment, we submitted a copy of the sale agreement to demonstrate we our consolidating funds for Canada
10. Also told about another such property investment of the PA and that it will also be sold before we come.
11. Quotes from shipping companies for moving 100kg of belongings from current country to Canada

In light of the refusal case that I have quoted above, are these proofs that we submitted feel enough? (we are from Pakistan, A non-visa exempt country)
What else concrete evidence can we provide so that we don't end up like the unfortunate couple in the case quoted above?
Sponsor is a homemaker, has not lived in Canada for over 8 years. There is no NOA or Option C. Has no income and is financially dependant on PA. (As a family we have enough savings and investments)

Well, here is the thing. The CIC is only looking for evidence that the sponsor will come back to live in Canada, if the PA's application shall be granted. The case you listed in your post didn't show that. All the so called concrete evidence presented in that case is irrelevant to CIC, because the evidence they submitted were all about PA, not sponsor.

You guys need to understand the business in order, married to a qualified sponsor does not grant you the right to immigrant to Canada, it is a privilege. The CIC grants the immigrant VISA to PA, it is because the sponsor needs the PA to be with him/her in Canada. It is the ground for CIC to grant the VISA to PA, if the evidence strongly to show, and the VO can be convinced, the sponsor will come back to resettle in Canada within a reasonable time frame from the application filed date.

As far as your case, focus on the sponsor's intention/action to resettle in Canada, not the PA's will for how to live in Canada.

 

[Screenager]

Well, here is the thing. The CIC is only looking for evidence that the sponsor will come back to live in Canada, if the PA's application shall be granted. The case you listed in your post didn't show that. All the so called concrete evidence presented in that case is irrelevant to CIC, because the evidence they submitted were all about PA, not sponsor.

You guys need to understand the business in order, married to a qualified sponsor does not grant you the right to immigrant to Canada, it is a privilege. The CIC grants the immigrant VISA to PA, it is because the sponsor needs the PA to be with him/her in Canada. It is the ground for CIC to grant the VISA to PA, if the evidence strongly to show, and the VO can be convinced, the sponsor will come back to resettle in Canada within a reasonable time frame from the application filed date.

As far as your case, focus on the sponsor's intention/action to resettle in Canada, not the PA's will for how to live in Canada.

That's what we have tried to do in the things we submitted as far as we know. Can you suggest some other concrete evidences that we can provide to prove Sponsor's intent to resettle in Canada once PA's permanant residence is granted.

 

[Miraclejj]

That's what we have tried to do in the things we submitted as far as we know. Can you suggest some other concrete evidences that we can provide to prove Sponsor's intent to resettle in Canada once PA's permanant residence is granted.

Yours are overkills. From what I read on this forum, people suggested don't give any specific dates, for CIC, they are not looking for concreted plans. They just need to know that you have a reasonable plan that the sponsor will be back to resettle in Canada, which makes sense.

And if I were you, just delete the item 9 and 10, you are good to go. Or, one thing you may add to your list is to list the evidence that we are scouting the school/day care for your kid.

 

[Screenager]

Yours are overkills. From what I read on this forum, people suggested don't give any specific dates, for CIC, they are not looking for concreted plans. They just need to know that you have a reasonable plan that the sponsor will be back to resettle in Canada, which makes sense.

And if I were you, just delete the item 9 and 10, you are good to go. Or, one thing you may add to your list is to list the evidence that we are scouting the school/day care for your kid.

School / day care we did. (item 5).

Actually item 10 also forms part of our 'savings and investments table' to demonstrate we'll have enough funds in Canada to not ask for any government help for 3 years. Item 9 we listed to demonstrate we have begun severing ties to our current country. But i get the point.
Would experts recommend that the Sponsor make a trip to Canada before we are approved? Would it make our case stronger.

 

[Screenager]

IF the sponsor makes a trip to Canada and signs a rental agreement for a future period.. Sponsor goes in June and signs a rental agreement starting next year March till December, which will be around the time when PA gets approval as per normal processing times (All other things assumed constant). Are such agreements possible? (and advisable?)

It will give us some solid proof of intent.

 

[Miraclejj]

School / day care we did. (item 5).

Actually item 10 also forms part of our 'savings and investments table' to demonstrate we'll have enough funds in Canada to not ask for any government help for 3 years. Item 9 we listed to demonstrate we have begun severing ties to our current country. But i get the point.
Would experts recommend that the Sponsor make a trip to Canada before we are approved? Would it make our case stronger.

By no means that I am an expert, but I am currently being through the same as yours, so I did a little home work.

The school for your kid, you only searched online, the best way to present that is that you actually contact the school to get more detailed info directly from school. As far as the 'savings and investments table', you should know that it is not required, the CIC is not looking for that. Heck, spousal application doesn't even need to meet the minimum income requirement to sponsor. If the sponsor can make a trip back to Canada to reinstate any necessities, such open a bank account, etc., during the application process, that is even better.
You can always submit additional evidence to CIC via emails.

 

[Miraclejj]

IF the sponsor makes a trip to Canada and signs a rental agreement for a future period.. Sponsor goes in June and signs a rental agreement starting next year March till December, which will be around the time when PA gets approval as per normal processing times (All other things assumed constant). Are such agreements possible? (and advisable?)

It will give us some solid proof of intent.

See, here is the problem. You planned too far away. If you did this to plan a year away, then you are looking for refusal. Never give a specific date or a period. I understand that your application may take this long to have a result, but as I said, CIC isn't looking for your schedule. They need to know the sponsor will be back to Canada in a short window period, after you submit your application, such as 6 months. As far as the evidence you listed, you don't need to provide more, it is enough.

Use words like "upon PA's approval", instead of give specific date or period.

 

[Screenager]

See, here is the problem. You planned too far away. If you did this to plan a year away, then you are looking for refusal. Never give a specific date or a period. I understand that your application may take this long to have a result, but as I said, CIC isn't looking for your schedule. They need to know the sponsor will be back to Canada in a short window period, after you submit your application, such as 6 months. As far as the evidence you listed, you don't need to provide more, it is enough.

Use words like "upon PA's approval", instead of give specific date or period.

Thanks for your inputs.

We have already submitted.
When sponsor has been living outside Canada exclusively. It is my understanding based on guides, this forum and other forums that the visa officer is looking for plans demonstrating that the sponsor (even the couple) has thought it through and simply saying that the sponsor will come when PR for PA is approved and giving this same reason for not being able to provide solid proofs may not be enough.

For clarification: solid proofs include
A canadian rental agreement, ownership of property in Canada, university acceptance or a canadian job offer.
In cases where sponsor's coming back home to Canada is dependant on PA's approval its never enough to just say it. Sponsors in such situations need to put forward a game plan of how they will support them selves (especialy if sponsor is a homemaker), what research theyv done, where they'll stay and why, friends and relatives knowing about their plans and so on

Plenty of refusal cases here who took this proof of intent bit lightly. I agree, specific dates should be avoided which we have. Sponsors still need to convince the visa officer that its not just a statement in the air and its backed up by a solid plan. Hence, the inclusion of family savings etc.

Canuck_in_uk, Scylla, Profiler, PRVC... Guys any input on the idea of a rental agreement for a future period?

 

[Miraclejj]

Thanks for your inputs.

We have already submitted.
When sponsor has been living outside Canada exclusively. It is my understanding based on guides, this forum and other forums that the visa officer is looking for plans demonstrating that the sponsor (even the couple) has thought it through and simply saying that the sponsor will come when PR for PA is approved and giving this same reason for not being able to provide solid proofs may not be enough.

For clarification: solid proofs include
A canadian rental agreement, ownership of property in Canada, university acceptance or a canadian job offer.
In cases where sponsor's coming back home to Canada is dependant on PA's approval its never enough to just say it. Sponsors in such situations need to put forward a game plan of how they will support them selves (especialy if sponsor is a homemaker), what research theyv done, where they'll stay and why, friends and relatives knowing about their plans and so on

Plenty of refusal cases here who took this proof of intent bit lightly. I agree, specific dates should be avoided which we have. Sponsors still need to convince the visa officer that its not just a statement in the air and its backed up by a solid plan. Hence, the inclusion of family savings etc.

Canuck_in_uk, Scylla, Profiler, PRVC... Guys any input on the idea of a rental agreement for a future period?

Regarding the rental, it is not necessary and it is far unusual that a landlord would sign a future lease agreement. You have relatives from both sides, and you already had their support to help you when the time you land in Canada, that is enough, and you don't need a rental.