Theorically what will happen to CBSA records if entering Canada by plane but leave into US by foot without passing a legal crossing?
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Don't be scared YVR123, I just went to Peace Arch yesterday and walked in US...but returned...no one stop me and I don't see any sign showing I cannot do that?
I am sure there are sections of the long border that's not being fully guarded.
I wonder if you would be appoached by US Border Patrol if you continue to walk to Washinton state.
It looks peaceful there. Anyway, I mean theorically, what happens? CBSA will confirm you are in Canada. And CBS confirm you leave US already. But you were still in US and meet Canada RO at the same time. Have to go back to Canada unofficially again.
The reason I ask this question is my I94 records is wrong...some visit just not showing up and logically not right. The same situation absolutely will happen with CBSA record. And the bad thing is, there will be no any stamp records anymore for entering and leave US and Canada, so if the system result is not friendly to me, I have to prove I am right myself...The RO check is a check for official records...
There is a section of land at the Peace Arch PoE that is neither U.S. or Canadian soil (apparently). It is called Peace Arch Historical State Park.
Often times people that cannot enter the other's country, will meet there for a visit without officially leaving their country.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/peace-arch-us-side-picnic-access-for-canadians-1.5635031
Interesting, never know this is a shared park...I don't believe there is any CBSA personal can stop people leave the park by checking out who is from which side...I don't see any sign that "American Stop" at any point on the way back to parking lot and you take 20 seconds to be on Hwy 99 without any limitation. Is this a legal hole that you can do this (passing the park to enter) without an official record?
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There are many towns on the border where the border literally divides the road. There is a library that is half in US and half in Canada. The bigger question is, what is your intent.
If you just want to step into US, you can do that in such places.
If you want to go and live in US without US border police knowing or homeland knowing then it is illegal. The above mentioned library has the system in which you can exit on canadian side or american side. If you exit the wrong side, you are supposed to go to the border police office and explain your situation. They will then "deport" you to the proper side or country.
If you enter into US --even if you had an i94 and what not-- without a border police check or nexus kiosk, you are breaking the law. You have not gone through any customs declaration or check, that alone is troublesome. Basically you will be in the country illegally.
Do you have any idea how monitored the border is ? Walking into the United States. without going thru an official border entry point is an excellent way to end up in jail in the United States…
and receiving a ban, but whatever floats your boat
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I'm kind of a geek and looked up this treaty - I think quite a lot of what is quoted in this article as fact is fiction, I can't find anything in the treaty that says what it claims.
BUt more interesting to me was this: "Whereas the Traffic in Slaves is irreconcilable with the principles of humanity and Justice, and whereas both His Majesty and the United States are desirous of continuing their efforts to promote its entire abolition, it is hereby agreed that both the contracting parties shall use their best endeavours to accomplish so desirable an object."
Yes, in 1814, the USA by treaty agreed to 'use best endeavours to accomplish ...' [the 'entire abolition' of slavery.]
Doesn't change the fact that people from both sides of the 49th Parallel that are not able to enter the other's country, enjoy the park; sometimes sharing the same picnic basket.
Speaking of being a Treaty geek...check out the Jay Treaty that gives a Canadian that is a member of a registered indigenous tribe the right to live and work in the U.S. (can get a work permit at a land PoE), but the same is not true for a U.S. Native American that wants to live and work in Canada...because Canada never signed the treaty.
Oh yeah, not debating that this actually happens. And I bet we will / could find that it is in fact 'managed' by one side or the other, just that they don't see any need to do so actively, letting it be a sort of DMZ (de-borderized zone?) since they can monitor picnics and dogwalkers without too much trouble.
Just I susecpt this stuff about the treaty is made up and/or massively exaggerated - my guess is that there's a tradition around it that's not really codified anywhere and it's been just exaggerated (or spun out of whole cloth).
Theorically what will happen to CBSA records if entering Canada by plane but leave into US by foot without passing a legal crossing?
Yes. Easily. Not without some risk.
@GandiBaat covered much of what is relevant, even referencing the Haskell Library and Opera House in both Stanstead, Quebec and in Derby Line, Vermont. Been there. Parked on the wrong side of the border but, after being advised by staff in the library, quickly relocated our vehicle to park on the street on the Canadian side of the border. See https://haskellopera.com/tours/
Been many years since I was last in that neighbourhood, so I am not sure the streets are still open to vehicular traffic crossing the border (like I did), or whether more prominent border markings have been installed. When I drove across the border there I did not even see the marker. It was not until I relocated our car and when walking back to the U.S. side to go in the library I noticed it, just a three foot high pole and not at all conspicuous.
As @GandiBaat referenced, there are scores and scores of locations where individuals can quite easily cross the border without properly making an application to enter the other country. Whether or not they are apprehended depends on various factors, not the least of which is the extent to which the traveler is trying to cross the border undetected. As I recently mentioned, another commonly used unregulated border crossing location, Roxham Road, has been in the news a lot lately, but most of those crossing the border there these days are individuals coming to Canada who plan to make a claim for refugee status from within Canada and thus are crossing the border openly and planning on being arrested.
Unregulated border crossings are common. Unregulated border crossings are far more common than typically acknowledged by those who advocate IRCC should totally rely on the entry and exit records captured by CBSA.
There are other ways that exits from and entries into Canada are not captured in CBSA records.
Obviously, no record is captured unless the individual's identity is entered into the system, which requires either an electronic/digital scan of identification or a manual entry of the information. Omissions or failures are way less common these days but still happen.
Travelers sometimes have alternative travel documents, and these in turn sometimes do not link to the same client identification number. Here too this is far less common of late, but not that long ago it was not uncommon for some individuals to actually have two different Canadian immigration client IDs, and the border crossing information captured by CBSA would depend on which travel document was being used. It appears that this is something of a loophole some travelers, typically with the assistance of crooked consultants, still try to exploit.
Impact:
No mystery. If someone enters Canada without CBSA capturing a record of the entry, CBSA does not have a record of that entry. If someone exits Canada into the U.S. in a manner that is not captured by CBSA or by U.S. authorities, likewise CBSA will not have a record of that individual's exit from Canada.
While IRCC and CBSA rely on the accuracy of the CBSA travel history, they do not rely on it to be complete.
Given technology these days expect that someone is watching you at all times at borders. One of the reasons smugglers tell people to cross through the woods. Trying to fix one issue by potentially causing yourself a much bigger issue does not make sense. If the US border patrol catches you god luck and have fun trying to enter the US for quite a while. Not worth the risk.
Didn’t read all the responses so this may have already been noted… Used to live in Blaine and was regularly at the park. While it is possible to walk into the park from either direction, there is plenty of surveillance and going south you will likely be stopped as soon as you leave the park. I was stopped numerous times even when I had parked my car in the parking lot on the south side and walked around the park for a while. To your question though, it may be possible to go back and forth without being detected and spend a significant amount of time out of Canada off the record but when you go to complete a PR renewal app or citizenship app you would have to admit to it or fail to disclose it and have that hanging over head forever.
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