Returning to Canada with my wife

[steerpike]

I watched a rerun of that show "Border Security" last night. It was interesting because on the episode there was a case where a Korean woman was traveling with her Canadian fiance. She told immigration that she was just planning on visiting but would be going back to Korea in a few months. They checked one of her bags and found I think some farewell card that made it clear she wasn't planning on returning anytime soon. The official was asking questions and she confessed that her fiance told her to say she is "just visiting", etc. The official verbally scolded her, told her all she needs is a visitor record and told the truth and she would have been fine. He then let the couple through and told them to be honest in the future as lying is much worse. The couple definitely caught a break there. Anyway, being honest like you were seems to be the best bet.

Ive seen that one two. The CBSA officer put her thru the ringer for a long time until she was in tears. Then the CBSA officer lied to her and told her that she should have been honest about planning to violate her visitor visa. THEN, was she was crying and scared, he let her thru, and told her it was all her boyfriends fault she went thru that. So the couple left the border with her crying and blaming her boyfriend for the whole ordeal.

 

[screech339]

Ive seen that one two. The CBSA officer put her thru the ringer for a long time until she was in tears. Then the CBSA officer lied to her and told her that she should have been honest about planning to violate her visitor visa. THEN, was she was crying and scared, he let her thru, and told her it was all her boyfriends fault she went thru that. So the couple left the border with her crying and blaming her boyfriend for the whole ordeal.

She technically was right that she is "just visiting" as she is suppose to. But at same time, she is lying about her intent to stay by planning to stay permanently. She shouldn't have anything in her baggage to indicate her intent to stay permanently. She basically got caught in a lie by having documents that says otherwise.

It is no different from those who came to Canada with very important documents. This signals to border that he/she has no intentions on leaving.

 

[steerpike]

She technically was right that she is "just visiting" as she is suppose to. But at same time, she is lying about her intent to stay by planning to stay permanently. She shouldn't have anything in her baggage to indicate her intent to stay permanently.

It is no different from those who came to Canada with very important documents. This signals to border that he/she has no intentions on leaving.

The visitor visa is not a subsititute fiance visa. One of the requirements is that you promise to leave. But apparently CBSA has the authority to waive that rule and let people use it as a fiance visa. Thats great! I'm very happey for people who get in that way! But as far as I know that is not official policy to do that in every case. So The CBSA officer lied to her when he told her that all she has to do is state she is coming to get married and will not be leaving. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. And its all based on the mood of that CBSA officer.

 

[JRPW]

Technically, a visitor visa is for visitors, and all CBSA officers should always send back people who come on a visitor visa and are not planning to return home. Thats how the rules are written. Apparently they have a lot of discression on this matter, but you are completely at the whim of that CBSA officer. Many people dont like having their lives depend on the whim/mood of a random border guard. So thats why people worry about it and try to minimize the risk.

It depends on the country of the spouse, I think. My spouse is from Japan, and we applied outland for her PR in October 2012. We planned on staying in Japan until she received her COPR. However, due to financial and personal reasons, I needed to come back to Canada before my wife received her COPR. When we arrived at Calgary on December 4, 2013, I told the CBSA officers the reasons why I needed to return to Canada - salary was cut, Mom was undergoing cancer treatments. I also told them that we have done everything by the book, but we are still waiting with NO contact from Manila (Manila didn't respond to my requests for an update). I told them that we were, and still are, exasperated by whole process. The CBSA agent, who we talked to in secondary inspection, mentioned that we probably know more about our situation than she did after looking us up on the system. I also CLEARLY stated that it is disheartening to see Filipinos getting visas after 7-9 months while Canadians and their Japanese spouses' PRs just sit at CEM languishing. The agent agreed and gave my wife a 1.5 year visitor visa. The agent told me that the whole process is a joke.

 

[screech339]

The visitor visa is not a subsititute fiance visa. One of the requirements is that you promise to leave. But apparently CBSA has the authority to waive that rule and let people use it as a fiance visa. Thats great! I'm very happey for people who get in that way! But as far as I know that is not official policy to do that in every case. So The CBSA officer lied to her when he told her that all she has to do is state she is coming to get married and will not be leaving. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. And its all based on the mood of that CBSA officer.

I agree that visitor visa allows a person to come "visit" Canada and must prove to agent that you intent to leave Canada. Where I disagree with you on is this "fiance visa". I never mentioned it in my posts. The agents does have the authority to decide who gets in. But to say that agents use "fiance visa" as an excuse to let people in doesn't make sense. Fiance visas does not exist now. It did years ago. But not now. So agents can't use "fiance visa" as an excuse.

 

[steerpike]

I meant an unofficial "fiance visa". Of course it is not written as such, it is written as a visitor visa. But if they are giving them out to people who are getting married and will not be leaving, how is that a visitor visa? Is a visitor visa in name only.

 

[screech339]

I meant an unofficial "fiance visa". Of course it is not written as such, it is written as a visitor visa. But if they are giving them out to people who are getting married and will not be leaving, how is that a visitor visa? Is a visitor visa in name only.

Those that applied for visitor visa after they got married, will likely get denied. It is those that gotten their visitor visa before getting married that are likely to get it. So it appears that the woman on the show probably and likely gotten her visa before getting married so she applied as a single woman applying for visa. She doesn't have to declare that she is a fiance. As far as CIC is concerned she is single person coming to stay permanently.

 

[keesio]

So the couple left the border with her crying and blaming her boyfriend for the whole ordeal.

Well, when the officer lets them through, they get very relieved and hug each other at the end.

 

[keesio]

Those that applied for visitor visa after they got married, will likely get denied. It is those that gotten their visitor visa before getting married that are likely to get it. So it appears that the woman on the show probably and likely gotten her visa before getting married so she applied as a single woman applying for visa. She doesn't have to declare that she is a fiance. As far as CIC is concerned she is single person coming to stay permanently.

The woman on the show is Korean. Koreans are visa exempt.

 

[screech339]

The woman on the show is Korean. Koreans are visa exempt.

All those that enter Canada from a visa exempt country is entering Canada on visitor visa default. The only different from those non visa exempt is that they don't have to go through hassle of applying for visitor visa for their passport. No matter how you slice it, the Korean woman on the show was entering as a visitor as a single woman.

 

[v00d00]

I guess I'm extra stressed out about this since my experiences with border crossings have always dealt with USCIS and not the Canadian authorities, and needless to say, they're not the most welcoming and accommodating individuals you'll deal with. I'm just having a hard time imagining that if I show up at the border and tell them that my wife is intending to apply for PR, they won't send her back and instruct us to do the outland method, despite the fact that CIC website states that she's allowed to do it from inside the country and can remain with me throughout the application process. Like I said, we're 1000 miles away from where we'll be crossing into Canada, and I really want to minimize the risk to as close to zero as possible. Is it advisable to call the border and ask them personally what we should do? I cant reach CIC directly since I'm outside of Canada. If we get her application package completely filled out and then show it to the border agents when we get there would that help at all? Is there anything else we can look into beside straight up filing the outland application that might make this easier? I'm still thinking it's best to make it look as much like she's just visiting as possible, but I trust you guys that have more experience with this than I do. I just really wish this was an easier task, I'm stressing about the moving arrangements, trying to find a job and temporary housing, getting my son's papers in order and all kinds of other things on top of wondering if I'll end up being separated from my family and for how long. :/

 

[steerpike]

I'm just having a hard time imagining that if I show up at the border and tell them that my wife is intending to apply for PR, they won't send her back and instruct us to do the outland method, despite the fact that CIC website states that she's allowed to do it from inside the country and can remain with me throughout the application process.

I know its confusing and could have been written more clearly, but what the CIC website means is, if your wife is already here, and you apply for PR, then she can stay u til the application runs its course even if her visa runs out. It doesnt say your wife is allowed in to the country if you are planning to file a PR. It doesnt say she is allowed here before the PR is sent.

I'm not one of these expert power ussers, but as far as I know, there is nothing from CIC or CBSA that helps a person in your circumstance. There isnt a way to do properly, technically speaking. As far as I know, the only way to do it is to come as a visitor which means promising she will return. It's a grey area and they do let people in who they know will not be returning. But as far as I know that is not strict policy but is the whim of the CBSA officer.

Is it advisable to call the border and ask them personally what we should do?

So i'm not sure that calling them will help you. The person on the phone may say "sure no problem" but its still up to the discretion of the CBSA agent at the border-crossing.

What you are attempting is not super risky or anything like that, i think you have a good chance of bringing her across.

People telling youto just be honest may be right. They do apparently let in people who are unmarried, from visa-exempt countries, who are planning to get married. And screech said he brought in his wife no problem. I wouldnt do it that way because I dont how it is allowed. I think he just got lucky.


Also, personally, i dont recommend trying a second border-crossing if the first one rejects you. Its all on computers now and they will know that you just got rejected. In my opinion, it looks really bad to try another border-crossing immediately after being rejected.