Renewing PR: filling up “Time spent outside Canada” is impossible

[nevillek]

Renewing PR: filling up “Time spent outside Canada” is impossible

I live on the border and have made a million trips to the US in the past 5 years. And the CBP doesn’t stamp your passport or anything every time you’re in and out. Is there any online site where I can find my entry and exit into Canada in the past 5 years? The US CBP I-94 website only lists my arrivals and departures since 2018 (so I’ll be missing 1 year of info) and I have no time to make a “freedom of information” request from CBP to get my travel history since that takes 1+ months to receive and I’m short on time. And I’m talking 100+ trips here.

Besides, if CBSA already has all this in their records (I’m sure they do - I read somewhere that it’s called travel history report), why do they need me to do all the extra work and dig into my travel history for all these years? It seems ridiculous and impossible.

Can I just mention somewhere that I’ve included all the information available to me but there may be some missing dates?

This is madness.

 

[steaky]

Can you not delay your application until you get your information from either CBP/CBSA? Btw, sometimes I find they did not record our departure / arrival correctly.

 

[Ponga]

Renewing PR: filling up “Time spent outside Canada” is impossible

I live on the border and have made a million trips to the US in the past 5 years. And the CBP doesn’t stamp your passport or anything every time you’re in and out. Is there any online site where I can find my entry and exit into Canada in the past 5 years? The US CBP I-94 website only lists my arrivals and departures since 2018 (so I’ll be missing 1 year of info) and I have no time to make a “freedom of information” request from CBP to get my travel history since that takes 1+ months to receive and I’m short on time. And I’m talking 100+ trips here.

Besides, if CBSA already has all this in their records (I’m sure they do - I read somewhere that it’s called travel history report), why do they need me to do all the extra work and dig into my travel history for all these years? It seems ridiculous and impossible.

Can I just mention somewhere that I’ve included all the information available to me but there may be some missing dates?

This is madness.

You're preaching to the choir! I'm in the exact same `boat' and echo your frustration.

Are you by chance a U.S. citizen? I am and hadn't considered ordering anything from CBP, assuming that they do not track my exits, either.

CBSA implies that `an entry record into another country constitutes an exit from Canada', but no idea if that's totally accurate. Commercial travel, probably so, since they would have access to passenger manifests to work with.

Firstly, I do understand that it is the responsibility of the PR to have accurate records of any and all trips out of and returning to Canada for the 5 year period prior to the date that they apply for PR card renewal. I was NOT aware of that when I landed as a PR; all I knew was that there would be a Residency Obligation (R.O.) to maintain PR status. Even with an expired PR card, the PR is still a PR with legal/valid status...unless it has been revoked by IRCC or renounced voluntarily by the PR, but...I digress.

Whether or not CBSA's records are accurate is only one piece of the puzzle. YOU have to document the myriad trips in the Travel History section of the form; how do you do that unless you have a copy of `whatever' CBSA has to share with IRCC? Even then...what if you know that you travelled on [insert date(s) here] but then see that the CBSA data doesn't even show this trip? I know that neither CBSA or IRCC are into playing `Gotcha' games, but if the Travel History that you show, contrasts with what they show...is it really a big deal? Maybe, because you have to declare that the information is truthful and accurate.

The U.S. and Canada (via CBP and CBSA) have a Memorandum of Understanding agreement that states that all entry/exit data for all travelers (that now includes U.S. and Canadian citizens) at a land PoE, was to have been shared as of 2019. This same sharing of data for commercial travel was to be in place in 2020. These two policies were the last two phases (3 and 4) of the Beyond the Border initiative that was established during the Harper/Obama years. Historically, a U.S. citizen's exits were (apparently) not recorded by CBSA and likely not by CBP when returning to Canada. The same was true for a Canadian citizen exiting Canada or the U.S., so it seems that entry records should be accurate, but it's a roll of the dice if you're seeking exit records...even if going through the ATIP, or FOIA process to order them yourself.

Lastly, while there is no getting around the requirement to show the previous 5 years of travel...logic would seem to prevail that as soon as you have shown travel history (listed from most recent to oldest, thankfully) that, when combined, shows that as of the date of your renewal application you have been in Canada for > 730 days ( plus a generous buffer, maybe)...the additional travel dates are pointless, at least in determining R.O. compliance - you already did the math! LOL!
Apparently, I am in the overwhelming minority in deducing that `logic'...but perhaps, that is what the IRCC worker does...and just checks `ok' and moves on to the next one.

Good luck!

 

[Ponga]

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/btb-pdf/mou-pe-eng.html

Memorandum of Understanding
Executive Summary

The Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) and the United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS), through U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), governs the sharing of biographic entry data regarding all travellers crossing the border by land at any Common Land Border Port of Entry (POE).


Canada and the U.S. exchange entry data to create exit records. This enables both countries to more effectively manage their common border. Such data may be used to verify travel dates or residency, or for any other lawful purposes consistent with each country’s domestic laws and policies.


Data is shared through a secure electronic system-to-system connection that meets each country’s security requirement.


Biographic information exchanged under this MOU is a traveller’s first name; middle names; last name; date of birth; nationality/citizenship; gender; document type; document number; document issuing country; as well as the POE; and date and time of entry. Subsequent and onward disclosure of data shared under this MOU is authorized in a manner that is consistent with the purposes outlined in the MOU, and respective of each country’s domestic laws and policies.


DHS through CBP and the CBSA will protect data exchanged using appropriate technical, security, and organizational measures to guard against loss, corruption, misuse, unauthorized access, or any other risks to the security, confidentiality, or integrity of the information. Biographic Entry Data received under the MOU will be retained and disposed of by DHS through CBP in accordance with its domestic laws and policies. The CBSA will retain Biographic Entry Data for no more than 15 years and will dispose of this information in accordance with its domestic laws and policies.'




The MOU was signed on June 18, 2019, in Washington, D.C. by the heads of both agencies.

 

[YVR123]

We used to live 30 min from the border and we went down for gas fill up weekly and package pickup.
Tell me how painful it was to get this fill out correctly (and for the citizenship application as well).

But we did it and yes. It can be done. (we used receipts, credit card statemenets, emails, google map history, social media posts...etc to trace back)

 

[Ponga]

We used to live 30 min from the border and we went down for gas fill up weekly and package pickup.
Tell me how painful it was to get this fill out correctly (and for the citizenship application as well).

But we did it and yes. It can be done. (we used receipts, credit card statemenets, emails, google map history, social media posts...etc to trace back)

Roger that...except for the Google map history. Turns out my phone had location services switched off (which must be by default). Also, I'm sure there were trips where neither of us used credit/debit cards or email for that matter (not sure how email would be helpful anyway, unless you have to identify the tower that was used to send/receive an email.

 

[YVR123]

Roger that...except for the Google map history. Turns out my phone had location services switched off (which must be by default). Also, I'm sure there were trips where neither of us used credit/debit cards or email for that matter (not sure how email would be helpful anyway, unless you have to identify the tower that was used to send/receive an email.

Yeah. we ignored our privacy and had location on all the time.

 

[armoured]

Yeah. we ignored our privacy and had location on all the time.

Yeah, we see you there - look up and smile.