Renewing PR card with R-1 PRTD

[juanhondubrata]

Hi everyone! I am an Indonesian who was granted Canadian permanent residency many years ago when I was a child (4 years old in 2009). I plan to go to Canada to study at a university and recently applied for a Permanent Resident Travel Document (PRTD). Fortunately, they determined that I still meet the residency obligation since I have been living with my father, who is a Canadian citizen, this entire time.

The PRTD issued to me has an R-1 designation, which I believe indicates that I meet the residency obligation for renewing my PR card. Does this mean I am eligible to renew my Permanent Resident (PR) card immediately upon my arrival in Canada, or would I need to stay there for two years first?

Additionally, I have never applied for a Social Insurance Number (SIN). While waiting for my PR card to be renewed, will I be able to apply for a SIN upon my arrival? I know the website says a PR card is required, but has anyone here had experience or knowledge about using a PRTD to apply for a SIN? This is crucial for me because I need to be able to work to support myself financially during the waiting period.

Thank you for any advice or information you can provide!

 

[armoured]

Hi everyone! I am an Indonesian who was granted Canadian permanent residency many years ago when I was a child (4 years old in 2009). I plan to go to Canada to study at a university and recently applied for a Permanent Resident Travel Document (PRTD). Fortunately, they determined that I still meet the residency obligation since I have been living with my father, who is a Canadian citizen, this entire time.

The PRTD issued to me has an R-1 designation, which I believe indicates that I meet the residency obligation for renewing my PR card. Does this mean I am eligible to renew my Permanent Resident (PR) card immediately upon my arrival in Canada, or would I need to stay there for two years first?

I do not know that the R-1 code means this but at any rate, if you got the PRTD on basis that you met the residency requirement (because of living with a citizen), then yes, apply for new PR card. Show the same information you showed to apply for the PRTD (and copy of the PRTD app if you have).

Unfortunately can't tell you how long it will take to get the PR card.

Additionally, I have never applied for a Social Insurance Number (SIN). While waiting for my PR card to be renewed, will I be able to apply for a SIN upon my arrival? I know the website says a PR card is required, but has anyone here had experience or knowledge about using a PRTD to apply for a SIN? This is crucial for me because I need to be able to work to support myself financially during the waiting period.

This is another gap, unfortunately - it is not at all clear that the SIN authorities will accept a PRTD. (Which is a bit crazy in that a PRTD does actually mean that the holder is a PR).

All I can suggest is that you try, try and try - escalate each time, politely but firmly, that you are a PR and have applied for a PR card but have not received it yet.

You may have to go to your MP and ask for help and possibly speak with a lawyer. The bottom line is that a PR has an unqualified right to work, and the government cannot (in my opinion) deny this right to work based on documentation requirements that only the government can provide (i.e. confirmation that you are still a permanent resident). [Note there is nothing in the 'right to work' aspects of law anywhere that states that even non-compliance with the PR residency requirements is grounds to deny the right to work.]

This keeps coming up here - in most cases it seems people do get the SIN number when they keep at it.

Oh - and for work, employers can (indeed I think must) accept evidence that you've applied for a SIN (copy of a mail or other app should be sufficient). You can also show the PRTD - see above, a holder of a PRTD is, unambiguously, a PR. However it's also clear that most applicants are in an uncomfortable position to 'demand' an employer accept a SIN.

[There's more to this, like what happens if/when the employer gets a request from the government about the SIn you may not have received yet, but as far as I can tell they're not at risk of issues if they confirm the information they'll have - your UCI# (will be in the PRTD) which govt can use to confirm you are a PR and that you've applied for the SIN. The catch is that one govt department - CRA/employment Canada - can't necessarily get the info from another - eg IRCC. That's not your fault.]

Good luck.

 

[canuck78]

I do not know that the R-1 code means this but at any rate, if you got the PRTD on basis that you met the residency requirement (because of living with a citizen), then yes, apply for new PR card. Show the same information you showed to apply for the PRTD (and copy of the PRTD app if you have).

Unfortunately can't tell you how long it will take to get the PR card.



This is another gap, unfortunately - it is not at all clear that the SIN authorities will accept a PRTD. (Which is a bit crazy in that a PRTD does actually mean that the holder is a PR).

All I can suggest is that you try, try and try - escalate each time, politely but firmly, that you are a PR and have applied for a PR card but have not received it yet.

You may have to go to your MP and ask for help and possibly speak with a lawyer. The bottom line is that a PR has an unqualified right to work, and the government cannot (in my opinion) deny this right to work based on documentation requirements that only the government can provide (i.e. confirmation that you are still a permanent resident). [Note there is nothing in the 'right to work' aspects of law anywhere that states that even non-compliance with the PR residency requirements is grounds to deny the right to work.]

This keeps coming up here - in most cases it seems people do get the SIN number when they keep at it.

Oh - and for work, employers can (indeed I think must) accept evidence that you've applied for a SIN (copy of a mail or other app should be sufficient). You can also show the PRTD - see above, a holder of a PRTD is, unambiguously, a PR. However it's also clear that most applicants are in an uncomfortable position to 'demand' an employer accept a SIN.

[There's more to this, like what happens if/when the employer gets a request from the government about the SIn you may not have received yet, but as far as I can tell they're not at risk of issues if they confirm the information they'll have - your UCI# (will be in the PRTD) which govt can use to confirm you are a PR and that you've applied for the SIN. The catch is that one govt department - CRA/employment Canada - can't necessarily get the info from another - eg IRCC. That's not your fault.]

Good luck.

Although technically true whether in practice this will be possible is a very different story and assume this person will not want to get lawyers involved to try to get a SIN# faster. Most legitimate employers will want a valid SIN# and have no knowledge of immigration documents. Would personally plan for it to be difficult to secure a SIN# and employment for multiple months. Your post-secondary institution may require you to show a valid PR card to qualify for domestic tuition as well. OP may also not be able to secure a health card until you have a valid PR card depending on the province and sadly who you interact with when applying for a health card since there seems to be some inconsistency between offices. OP may want to take out emergency travel medical insurance for a few months until you have access to province healthcare.

 

[armoured]

Although technically true whether in practice this will be possible is a very different story and assume this person will not want to get lawyers involved to try to get a SIN# faster. Most legitimate employers will want a valid SIN# and have no knowledge of immigration documents. Would personally plan for it to be difficult to secure a SIN# and employment for multiple months.

Let's be clear here:
-my post was quite clear that this will be difficult.
-your comment "this person will not want to get lawyers involved" - let's also be clear that there is ZERO risk to the individual in doing so, apart from the cost; your vague comment seems to imply there is some issue (which may not have been your intent, hence my "let's be clear.")
-There are specific instructions for employers which can be referred to:
https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/ei/ei-list/ei-employers-sin.html

The employer needs to request a SIN, OR instruct the employee to apply for one. They can work before getting the SIN. While these instructions are silent on to what degree an employer must ensure someone is eligible to work, they are not - as far as I'm aware - required to be police, i.e. they can accept at face value straightforward documents (COPR, PRTD).

Yes, employers may be reluctant. I was clear on that. Is there some particular additional afear-ing you believe is required? Specifically?

But as we've discussed here multiple times, this gap is ENTIRELY caused by the government, which has the information to confirm an individual is a PR, AND cannot deny right to work. While government can impose reasonable requirements (administrative) to apply for and receive documents attesting to status, there's no reason a PR card should / must be required.

And again: going back to the SIN administrators (Service Canada) and insisting may work.

 

[canuck78]

Let's be clear here:
-my post was quite clear that this will be difficult.
-your comment "this person will not want to get lawyers involved" - let's also be clear that there is ZERO risk to the individual in doing so, apart from the cost; your vague comment seems to imply there is some issue (which may not have been your intent, hence my "let's be clear.")
-There are specific instructions for employers which can be referred to:
https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/ei/ei-list/ei-employers-sin.html

The employer needs to request a SIN, OR instruct the employee to apply for one. They can work before getting the SIN. While these instructions are silent on to what degree an employer must ensure someone is eligible to work, they are not - as far as I'm aware - required to be police, i.e. they can accept at face value straightforward documents (COPR, PRTD).

Yes, employers may be reluctant. I was clear on that. Is there some particular additional afear-ing you believe is required? Specifically?

But as we've discussed here multiple times, this gap is ENTIRELY caused by the government, which has the information to confirm an individual is a PR, AND cannot deny right to work. While government can impose reasonable requirements (administrative) to apply for and receive documents attesting to status, there's no reason a PR card should / must be required.

And again: going back to the SIN administrators (Service Canada) and insisting may work.

Given the fact that OP says he needs to work to support himself I made the assumption that paying for lawyers are likely to be out of reach financially. What legally should be possible and what realistically will happen while waiting for months before receiving PR card are often very different. OP should be prepared financially for the real possibility that most employers will not want to hire someone without a valid PR card or SIN#.

 

[juanhondubrata]

Thanks for the insight canuck78. Right now, I'm preparing for the worst-case scenario where I might not be able to obtain a SIN and thus be unable to work while waiting for my PR card. With regards to my PR card renewal, do you think I will be able to apply for renewal immediately once I enter Canada? I have read on other posts saying that it would be better to stay in canada for at least 730 days before applying for renewal. But that would definitely be out of the equation considering my current circumstance

I do not know that the R-1 code means this but at any rate, if you got the PRTD on basis that you met the residency requirement (because of living with a citizen), then yes, apply for new PR card. Show the same information you showed to apply for the PRTD (and copy of the PRTD app if you have).

Unfortunately can't tell you how long it will take to get the PR card.



This is another gap, unfortunately - it is not at all clear that the SIN authorities will accept a PRTD. (Which is a bit crazy in that a PRTD does actually mean that the holder is a PR).

All I can suggest is that you try, try and try - escalate each time, politely but firmly, that you are a PR and have applied for a PR card but have not received it yet.

You may have to go to your MP and ask for help and possibly speak with a lawyer. The bottom line is that a PR has an unqualified right to work, and the government cannot (in my opinion) deny this right to work based on documentation requirements that only the government can provide (i.e. confirmation that you are still a permanent resident). [Note there is nothing in the 'right to work' aspects of law anywhere that states that even non-compliance with the PR residency requirements is grounds to deny the right to work.]

This keeps coming up here - in most cases it seems people do get the SIN number when they keep at it.

Oh - and for work, employers can (indeed I think must) accept evidence that you've applied for a SIN (copy of a mail or other app should be sufficient). You can also show the PRTD - see above, a holder of a PRTD is, unambiguously, a PR. However it's also clear that most applicants are in an uncomfortable position to 'demand' an employer accept a SIN.

[There's more to this, like what happens if/when the employer gets a request from the government about the SIn you may not have received yet, but as far as I can tell they're not at risk of issues if they confirm the information they'll have - your UCI# (will be in the PRTD) which govt can use to confirm you are a PR and that you've applied for the SIN. The catch is that one govt department - CRA/employment Canada - can't necessarily get the info from another - eg IRCC. That's not your fault.]

Good luck.

 

[armoured]

I have read on other posts saying that it would be better to stay in canada for at least 730 days before applying for renewal.

Your situation is different from those other cases because you apparently qualified as having your days outside of Canada counted as days toward residency - in other words, you basically already said that you have the 730 days. And it seems that IRCC did give the PRTD on that basis.

At any rate, in your case, see no reason not to apply for the PR card when you arrive. It may take longer to get issued, but if you remain in Canada during that period, you should be ok.