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Question about Residency Obligation for PR renewal.

bluejayzzzzz

Member
May 16, 2017
10
2
Hi,

I have a question about residency obligation.

I had to leave Canada for personal reasons, and my PR card expired during that time. I got PRTD that allows multiple entries and it's valid until next May. I returned to Canada, applied for a new PR card two weeks ago, and then left Canada again. So, I'm not in Canada right now.

When I applied for the PR card renewal, I had stayed in Canada long enough to meet RO requirement. However, since it might take more than two months to process the renewal, I won't be able to meet the RO soon.

Could this impact my application? Is there a chance that my application could be affected if I'm not able to fulfill the RO after I've submitted the application?

Thanks,
 

Ponga

VIP Member
Oct 22, 2013
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You have a PRTD with multiple entry for a year? Is this something new from IRCC?

If you do not meet the R.O., your application can indeed be refused...which would start the domino sequence of `not good'. It sounds like you only returned to Canada so that you could apply for a new PR Card, just barely meeting the R.O., right? Leaving right afterwards is pretty risky IMHO.
 

Ponga

VIP Member
Oct 22, 2013
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Actually, I just found this:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5529-applying-permanent-resident-travel-document.html

Usually, PRTD counterfoils are issued for a single entry to Canada. However, you can request a long-term multiple entry PRTD if you: meet the residency obligation; and. are living outside Canada on a long-term basis (for example, if you are a permanent resident accompanying your Canadian citizen spouse).
---

Are you living abroad accompanying your Canadian spouse or partner? If not, how did you qualify for the PRTD?
 

bluejayzzzzz

Member
May 16, 2017
10
2
Actually, I just found this:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5529-applying-permanent-resident-travel-document.html

Usually, PRTD counterfoils are issued for a single entry to Canada. However, you can request a long-term multiple entry PRTD if you: meet the residency obligation; and. are living outside Canada on a long-term basis (for example, if you are a permanent resident accompanying your Canadian citizen spouse).
---

Are you living abroad accompanying your Canadian spouse or partner? If not, how did you qualify for the PRTD?
No, just have stayed out of the country for a long term and visited often.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,463
7,876
Hi,

I have a question about residency obligation.

I had to leave Canada for personal reasons, and my PR card expired during that time. I got PRTD that allows multiple entries and it's valid until next May. I returned to Canada, applied for a new PR card two weeks ago, and then left Canada again. So, I'm not in Canada right now.

When I applied for the PR card renewal, I had stayed in Canada long enough to meet RO requirement. However, since it might take more than two months to process the renewal, I won't be able to meet the RO soon.

Could this impact my application? Is there a chance that my application could be affected if I'm not able to fulfill the RO after I've submitted the application?

Thanks,
Not an expert but: it seems most likely given the recent PRTD and application is that either it will just be processed normally ... OR - be delayed somewhat and/or be subject to you being told to pick up in an office in Canada.

In all these events: I'd plan to return to Canada before the PRTD expires, and be prepared to stay for a while. Ideally until solidly back in compliance with the residency obligation.

There are some other potential scenarios - like you being issued the 44(1) report on arrival in Canada (for being out of compliance) - but perhaps/probably less likely while you have a valid PRTD. If you have to enter/depart/enter Canada multiple times, odds of some issues would likely increase.

After your PRTD expires: that's when things potentially get more difficult and easiest advice is to avoid being outside Canada when that happens.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,282
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I had to leave Canada for personal reasons, and my PR card expired during that time. I got PRTD that allows multiple entries and it's valid until next May. I returned to Canada, applied for a new PR card two weeks ago, and then left Canada again. So, I'm not in Canada right now.

When I applied for the PR card renewal, I had stayed in Canada long enough to meet RO requirement. However, since it might take more than two months to process the renewal, I won't be able to meet the RO soon.

Could this impact my application? Is there a chance that my application could be affected if I'm not able to fulfill the RO after I've submitted the application?
Is there a chance that my application could be affected if I'm not able to fulfill the RO after I've submitted the application?

The irony, in terms of eligibility for a new PR card, is technically no.

How is that "irony?" If you leave Canada and are in breach of the PR Residency Obligation, meeting the definition of inadmissible, you will be at risk for inadmissibility proceedings and loss of PR status, even if, again *technically* you met the eligibility requirements for a PR card. That is, you remain eligible for a new PR card, but if you breach the RO you are nonetheless at risk of losing PR status because you are inadmissible.

How much risk depends on a lot of the particular facts and circumstances in your individual situation.

How much risk also depends on whether there is a RO compliance examination when arriving at a Port-of-Entry; as others have referenced, presenting a valid PR TD, for example, makes good odds of being waived through without further examination. Will be similar if you get a new PR card. HOWEVER, neither will make much if any difference if you are not waived through, if you are examined as to RO compliance. If that happens (and there is always a risk of that, and moreover I suspect, acknowledging it is only what I suspect not what I know, is that there is a readily seen note in the PR's GCMS when they have a PR card application in process), if that happens and there is a RO compliance examination, again, the fact you are presenting a valid PR card, even a nearly brand new one, or a PR TD, will have no relevance in the calculation of RO compliance, and thus minimal if any influence in the outcome.

The only way to avoid the risk of losing PR status is to STAY in Canada long enough to be in RO compliance and NOT LEAVE Canada for any length of time that would result in not complying with the RO; that is, to ALWAYS have spent at least 730 days IN Canada within the previous five years.

Otherwise, to breach the RO is to risk losing PR status. @armoured addressed some of the possible ways things could go. I am not going to reiterate them, other than to remind you that getting a new PR card does not change how your RO compliance is calculated. A new PR card does NOT, for example, restart the RO compliance clock.

But, yeah, if you are in RO compliance as of the day you make a PR card application, that meets the eligibility requirements to be issued a new PR card. If, and it's a real *IF*, if your PR card application goes through routine processing a new PR card will be approved, issued, and perhaps even delivered.

Risk is perhaps relatively low if:
-- the extent of the breach is small​
-- trip abroad is short, and​
-- you have (or it appears you have) settled in Canada and this is now the place where you maintain your primary, permanent place of residence​

Additionally, if there are positive H&C factors in the reasons for continued absences, that can help lower the risk.

Otherwise, to breach the RO risks the obvious: being subject to action taken to terminate PR status.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,977
12,769
If you are living abroad the other big issue is that you will normally be required to pick up your new PR card in person. When you pick up your card in person there is usually a mini interview and one of the things that is checked is whether you are remain compliant with your RO. You should be planning on spending enough time in Canada to be compliant with your RO when you pick up a new PR card. After the first 5 years R0 becomes a rolling requirement so on any days you must meet the 730 out of 5 years requirement. How close were you to the 730 days within the past 5 years and when you applied to renew your PR card? The fact that you haven’t settled in Canada always counts against someone who hasn’t met their RO and it looks as though you never settled in Canada permanently after receiving your RO. It
 

bluejayzzzzz

Member
May 16, 2017
10
2
If you are living abroad the other big issue is that you will normally be required to pick up your new PR card in person. When you pick up your card in person there is usually a mini interview and one of the things that is checked is whether you are remain compliant with your RO. You should be planning on spending enough time in Canada to be compliant with your RO when you pick up a new PR card. After the first 5 years R0 becomes a rolling requirement so on any days you must meet the 730 out of 5 years requirement. How close were you to the 730 days within the past 5 years and when you applied to renew your PR card? The fact that you haven’t settled in Canada always counts against someone who hasn’t met their RO and it looks as though you never settled in Canada permanently after receiving your RO. It
Like 1040 out of 1095 days spent out of country when I applied for the renewal.
 

yyzstudent

Champion Member
Nov 6, 2015
1,335
702
The only way to avoid the risk of losing PR status is to STAY in Canada long enough to be in RO compliance and NOT LEAVE Canada for any length of time that would result in not complying with the RO; that is, to ALWAYS have spent at least 730 days IN Canada within the previous five years.
WORD!

If only more people understood that. Those who are lucky enough to get away with it either had a compelling reason, a lenient processing officer, or lucky enough to get one of the so called “lazy, no good, incompetent, doesn’t do his/her job” officer that a lot of people complain about when their processing takes a long time.

Just my $0.02.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,282
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Like 1040 out of 1095 days spent out of country when I applied for the renewal.
To be clear: what matters are the number of days IN Canada within the previous five years. To be in compliance with the Residency Obligation that requires 730 days IN Canada within the previous 1825 days.

Only if you made the PR card application BEFORE the fifth year anniversary of landing, would less than 1095 days outside Canada show you were in compliance with the RO. And that calculation needs to be based on days out of Canada since the day of landing, not just the most recent three years (1095 days).

BUT since your PR card has expired, it is clear you are past the fifth year anniversary of landing. So, for sure, your compliance with the PR RO requires at least 730 days IN Canada within the previous five years.

So, again, even if you met the RO as of the day the application was made, if you leave Canada and then have not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the five years prior to the day you return to Canada, your PR status will be at risk. (Again, there are many factors which will influence how much risk there is; so the risk will vary depending on YOUR particular facts and circumstances.)

Which brings this around to the observation by @canuck78 which echoes my previous comments, regarding whether or not you have PERMANENTLY settled in Canada. If not, and you leave for an extended period of time, that will indeed significantly increase the risk of RO enforcement and losing PR status for inadmissibility.

The only way to avoid the risk of losing PR status is to STAY in Canada long enough to be in RO compliance and NOT LEAVE Canada for any length of time that would result in not complying with the RO; that is, to ALWAYS have spent at least 730 days IN Canada within the previous five years.
If only more people understood that. Those who are lucky enough to get away with it either had a compelling reason, a lenient processing officer, or lucky enough to get one of the so called “lazy, no good, incompetent, doesn’t do his/her job” officer that a lot of people complain about when their processing takes a long time.
Mostly yes.

It is worth clarifying, however, that the chances of getting waived through by a “lazy, no good, incompetent, doesn’t do his/her job” border official are probably VERY LOW. Contrary to the commentary by some forum participants, CBSA officers tend to be professional, competent, diligent, and have a far better grasp of the relevant facts and circumstances than many here give them credit. Some of the slack given PRs might be, occasionally, in dereliction of duty, but it warrants remembering that PRs are Canadians (not Foreign Nationals; this distinction made by IRPA) and thus are due considerable deference.

That is, over and above the leniency hardwired into the 2/5 obligation itself, which allows PRs a great deal of deference in managing their personal life, allowing PRs broad flexibility with no questions asked, in addition to that the manner and means of enforcing the RO is also lenient and flexible. After all, even though in breach of the RO, unless the PR does something requiring a Residency Determination (RO compliance calculation) or otherwise triggers a RO compliance examination, Canada will NOT pursue enforcement of the RO. Thus, those PRs who have been given permission to actually enter Canada without triggering RO enforcement, despite being in breach of the RO, can stay, live, work, go to school, and so on, with no apprehension that IRCC or CBSA will come after them, no fear of inadmissibility prosecution (as long as they do not make an application requiring a Residency Determination UNTIL AFTER they have stayed long enough to be in compliance with the RO).

Another salient illustration of this is the difference made if a PR is abroad without a valid PR card. Big difference between that PR somehow getting to Canada and applying for permission to enter Canada at a PoE versus that PR applying for a PR Travel Document while abroad. The latter is PRESUMED to not have valid PR status. That is, the deference in enforcement given to PRs in Canada, and PRs physically entering Canada, does not apply when a PR is applying for a PR TD. This is a specific limitation on the deference given PRs as prescribed by statute.

There are a few forum participants, who appear (so it seems) motivated by an anti-immigrant agenda, who express disdain for the amount of deference and leniency exercised in RO enforcement.

In contrast, however, there are also more than a few PRs who mistake this deference and leniency for license, almost to the point of expecting they are entitled to keep PR status despite failing to stay in compliance with the RO. It can be difficult to fairly frame the nature and amount of risk, which will vary considerably. Leading back to the primary message:
The only way to avoid the risk of losing PR status is to STAY in Canada long enough to be in RO compliance and NOT LEAVE Canada for any length of time that would result in not complying with the RO; that is, to ALWAYS have spent at least 730 days IN Canada within the previous five years.